Tolkien in school?

[Eljerial]

Hey, don't you think it would be great if teachers taught Tolkien in reading or/and english class? He's such a great writer. The trilogy (spelled wrong, whoops)is a classic. Not all people know about his other books and it would be a great idea to read those too. So, start posting your opinions!

[ElanorGamgee]

Some schools do have The Hobbit or The Fellowship of the Ring on the reading syllabus, but I never got to read anything by Tolkien in school. I wish I could have; there's one exam I'd be sure to ace! Seriously, Tolkien's works are classics, and I think students could really benefit from studying both the writing style and the themes.

[Lindolirian]

I was first introduced to Tokien by The Hobbit in fifth grade. I didn't read LotR until later because somebody told me it was bad. HA!! what losers... if only i remembered who it was... hehehhe grrrrr
Tolkien in school is a great idea. I would ace every quiz. They couldn't come up with stuff nearly as hard as the stuff we have in the Quiz Room or Quotable Quotes... that would be so awesome!!

[Lady_Báin]

I am sooo lucky the school i'm going to next year has the trilogy for english 60somehtingorother i am so exited!!! smilies/biggrin.gif

[Auriel Haevasawen]

I studied the Hobbit at school when I was eleven (first year of High School in England) but that was almost 20 years ago so I reckon things have changed a lot. I was already into CSLewis and Alan Garner then so I devoured The Hobbit when it was introduced to me.

[Eljerial]

In our school (I'm in seventh grade) we don't get to read Tolkien. I don't think we get to read Tolkien at all in school. We have to read this simple and horrible books. For example, The Witch of Blackbird Pond. I read that in 4th grade, yet for some reason, we're reading it in 7th. People in my school must not be too bright.

[Veritas]

I don't think that we're reading it together, I can put him on my booklist for my English exam, but that's about tree years, I'm not thinking about that, but LotR and the Silmarillion are going to stand on that list.

[Nevtalathiel]

I don't think studying Tolkein in school would be a good idea. If you force kids to read a book they're not interested in, they'll hate it and you could put them off Tolkein for life. We have to study Lord of the Flies for an exam, and we have to go into it in such detail it takes all the fun out of it and I've really grown to dislike the book. If they made me study Tolkien in such detail, I'd be devastated, as it would put me of my favourite book, and stop it being relaxing and fun to read. smilies/confused.gif

[Arwen Imladris]

We don't get to read it in school. It would be great if I could though. The LOTR is probebly too big for high school, I'm know of some people in my grade 10 class who would totally freak out if they saw that they had to read a book that big. At least, that is why I think it is not in my school.

Maybe too, because so many people have read LOTR already, they want to have people read something different.

[Ms. Took]

I agree with Nevatalathiel. While we would enjoy it I think that if you forced students into it, than they wouldn't like it. I've read books before that i liked when i read them on my own, but when i was forced to read them in class I hated them. I think it's better that people discover tolkien at their own pace and in their own way. Besides i think half of the kids in my school would be too thick to understand most of it.

[Arwen Imladris]

Hobbits in their holes could hardly have been cozier than Robert Wilhelm's students, who gathered before a flickering fireplace to swap the stories behind the story of "The Lord of the Rings."

A Maryland School is reading Tolkien! A nice article. Here. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20030226/ap_en_mo/wkd_tolkien_storytellers)

[Beren87]

They couldn't come up with stuff nearly as hard as the stuff we have in the Quiz Room or Quotable Quotes...

No kidding there!

LotR and the Hobbit were both on a reading list this year for english class, but sadly we couldn't pick a book we had already read.

[ February 26, 2003: Message edited by: Beren87 ]

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

At SF state. there is a class based on Tolkien and his works. Here is the thread Middle-earth 101 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002607). Oh yeah, and two grades before me, the eighth grade class had to read The HObbit a while back. But that's about it.

[Haelothiel]

I agree with Nevtalathiel and Ms. Took. If we were required to read LotR in school, there would be quite a few Tolkien haters. This year we had to read Romeo and Juliet and a lot of the kids in my grade hated it just because they had to read it. I liked it, and I like LotR, so I hope that they don't require it cuz I don't want anyone to hate LotR. Sadly, Eljerial, you are not the only one with classmates that are a little behind. There are so many books that we had to read in class that are at about a fourth grade reading level smilies/rolleyes.gif ! And I'm in 9th grade! And it's kind of hard to talk to people when they don't understand some of the words you use... Well, that's all I have to say.

[InklingElf]

I'm in 8th grade, and we're reading Romeo and Juliet right now [Act2]. The only time I read Tolkien was in 6th grade when I suggested it to my teacher: [i]The Hobbit [but it was sort of a review for me because I had read it already]. Maybe they don't do Tolkien in classes much, because it's too long [esp. if you have slow readers in class], but I wish they would add it in the system a bit more...

BTW: I'm going to be in 9th grade soon!

[ February 26, 2003: Message edited by: InklingElf ]

[Lindolirian]

LotR and the Hobbit were both on a reading list this year for english class, but sadly we couldn't pick a book we had already read.

Same here. Beren, you wouldn't happen to be taking English 10 would you? I assume you are a sophomore like me because of the 87 on your name, which I think indicates your year of birth...

[Rina]

As a future English teacher, I am planning to teach Tolkien to some degree. I agree with previous comments that some students dislike books they are forced to read, so I would try to avoid drilling them, but I think it is an important piece of British Literature, besides being truly fascinating.

I am going to try to talk my English prof. into allowing me to do an Honors project on Tolkien, so if anyone has any good suggestions for topics, let me know.

[Luthien_ Tinuviel]

At my school in eighth grade we had The Hobbit on our required summer reading list! That was an easy one smilies/wink.gif! I didn't even have to re-re-re-(times something)-read it to know all about it and write a successful (sp?) book report. smilies/biggrin.gif

[Alatáriël Lossëhelin]

I think some high schools have advanced or honors classes in various subjects. Perhaps if LotR was on a list of several books the students could choose from, it wouldn't have that "I was forced to read it" stigma. If several students chose to read it, they could have study groups?!?!? If the teacher helped to make it interesting, by using maps, illustrations and perhaps role playing, this might foster some life-long Tolkein fans. Unfortunately for me, nothing by Tolkein was offered in class when I was in high school or college, although I read them on my own in 1966.

[Gorwingel]

Yeah, I sometimes think how fun it would be to introduce Tolkien to a bunch of young people, but I hate being forced to read books I don't want to, so maybe that would not be a good thing. Though I could imagine the films maybe being shown before a vacation or something like that. There are some younger kids that absolutely love the books, while I was doing a Tolkien trivia contest, there was this one boy who looked like he was nine years old, and he knew so much. there was also this one girl who was very young but knew a lot.

[ February 27, 2003: Message edited by: Gorwingel ]

[Iargwath]

It was in 8th grade when i picked up The Hobbit from the English departments book box. We had to read a particular book over the holidays and answer a series of questions on it. I picked up the Hobbit since i wanted a change from my usual reading material...and i ended up hooked like most of you guys here smilies/smile.gif So im thankful to my teacher who put The Hobbit in her book box for holiday reading smilies/smile.gif

[Elanor]

As a teacher (mainly foreign languages, but I have also taught English Literature classes) I don't really see a place for Tolkien in the Secondary curriculum. I can see that in primary schools, reading The Hobbit may be a good idea (though of course for a mixed-ability class it could be quite hard work for some of them.) However, once you get into the secondary schools (age 11 onwards), it would be very hard to work such a long book as LotR into the curriculum. I don't know what the situation is elsewhere, but in the UK, teachers can't just teach whatever book they choose. They are obliged to choose from a list, and teachers within the same school will have to do the same books as each other. I can see that LotR isn't to everyone's taste, and it would be impossible to study the entire book in a school year. I also agree with the people who mentioned the dislike of books that they have been forced to study - I wouldn't want anyone to be put off Tolkien because of studying it in school. As a teacher I have recommended Tolkien to several students. Some of them have taken my advice, tried it, and loved it (and then asked me many many questions about the books). But I would not recommend his work to all my students, they need to have enough intelligence and imagination.

[the guy who be short]

lol, elanor, they need intelligence? kinda insulting to your pupils! i am assuming that as we have all read lotr, we are all keen readers, and hopefully all rather intelligent (i am, i skipped a year at school smilies/smile.gif dont i make u sick?)
i think that making peope read lotr would be foolish, as (as elanor states) they might not have the intelligence
it is a very big and meaningful book, and its size means it would take forever to read, let alone study.it is also very deep with morals and meanings, and (as elanor said) some people might just be...to stupid? to understand them

[Vardamar]

My mother had a teacher who read them LOTR, and named his kids after people in the book. How great is that?!? To bad hes retired now smilies/frown.gif

[Tenduriel]

i've tried to convince my teacher myself, but the only thing he said was (and i am sure he was lying smilies/biggrin.gif) that some people don't like him (you see! the liar!) AND that the book was way to big to read during the whole year of our English course. I must admit that the only copies I've read are the translated ones (in Dutch), so perhaps they were to difficult as well.

ah well, school was hell.

[Elanor]

I certainly don't mean to insult my students (mine are extremely intelligent smilies/biggrin.gif ). However, to read LotR (and enjoy it) you do need a certain level of intelligence and reading ability. All of us here possess that, clearly, but sadly there are lots of people in schools who don't. My personal reason not to want to teach Tolkien though, is that I would hate to force kids to read it, and hate to have to be critical of the books and the author. (You can't study a book in detail without being critical.) I think the long length, however, is the major reason why Tolkien is not taught in schools.

[Peri]

That's how I was first introduced to Tolkien, by my sixth grade teacher Mr. Brown. We read The Hobbit in his class. It was so great the way he explained everything in great detail.

[InklingElf]

Great! At least you and I convinced our teachers smilies/biggrin.gif My teacher's name was Mr.Anderson, and it wasn't that hard because he was a Tolkien fan himself.

[ February 28, 2003: Message edited by: InklingElf ]

[Calavanya]

I study English lang. and literature at university and we have Tolkien on our reading list for modern British literature. It's actually on the new list, since two years ago. When I saw it, I began to jump with joy (imagine..). Great!!! smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

[Imladrien]

Some people state that LotR is too long and tough for most kids, (say 12 and younger).
While that may be true for a relative few, I am shocked by this. Is this where education is going?

I have a solution to the too long part. Back in high school 30 years ago, I had to read FotR for my English Lit class: one book the size of most of the others we had to read. Some of us went on to read the rest of the trilogy on our own outside of school. The rest who didn't care for it, enjoyed the next novel on the list (whatever it was) while I struggled to read that and TTT at the same time.
--Imladrien

[The Saucepan Man]

Some people state that LotR is too long and tough for most kids, (say 12 and younger). While that may be true for a relative few, I am shocked by this.

I agree. When I was 13 or so, we had to read Great Expectations by Dickens over the school holiday, which is much the same length as LotR. Not all books will be to every student's taste. I was not taken by Dickens (a favourite of the school syllabus) at all, but I remember enjoying immensely books such as 1984, Brave New World, A Farewell to Arms and Wuthering Heights.

So, I don't think the fact that LotR may not be every student's cup of tea should prevent it being on the syllabus. Surely, LotR is stimulating enough to merit a place, quite apart form it being an accomplished work of literature?

[Andephelien]

Some people state that LotR is too long and tough for most kids, (say 12 and younger).
While that may be true for a relative few, I am shocked by this. Is this where education is going?
Yikes, this makes me happy I'm Homeschooled. I read the books when I was 11. smilies/eek.gif

[Lathriel]

AT schools students should at least read the hobbit (to get them hooked LOL) At least my brother should, he says he doesn't like fantasy but he loves the LOTR movies and since my mom and I have both read the book and are Tolkein fans he keeps driving us mad with questions. I hope curiosity gets the better of him so that one day he will finally start reading LOTR

[NAri Brassbow]

we do in my school but all the little illiterate knaves in my class complain and whine about.

[InklingElf]

Same case here NAri-but I wouldn't call them illiterate...

[hobbit punk]

I am in my second year of high school and I have taken the advanced/enriched English course both years and plan to next year as well. Unfortunately, the lesson plan for the regular and advanced classes is virtually the same(except the advanced classes do WIER and have a higher standard set) and we never even touched LOTR(although this year I would read my Lost Tales volume one in class quite a bit smilies/wink.gif ) Also, I do agree that most students would not appreciate Tolkien or his masterpiece and regard it as a long, boring school book. My friend in Germany, however, got to go on a class trip to see the Two Towers and even discussed it in class! I have never been so jealous! I hope our school system will wake up and at least acknowledge that Tolkien is considered one of the greatest writers of all time.

[Narya]

Well, I come from Germany, but we didn´t go to see TTT and havn´t read any book by Tolkien.
But a girl in my class just made a report in our English- Class about LotR. She was a bit quicker choosing a topic than I; otherwise I would have taken LotR as my subject I am going to talk about...
Her report was good, but because she only had watched the movies and read FotR - as she told me -, it had some mistakes; sometimes, I think, one could notice how far she had got reading the books. But I don´t want to sound mean...

I don´t think it would be so good to read LotR in school. In generall I don´t like it when we are reading a book in class and have to answer many questions of our teacher that only lead us to his opinions about the issues in the book. I often tend to think, when we talk about a book in class that we haven´t read completly, that it will be less fun reading the book after our teacher talked about it with us.
As most of you said, some students will hate Tolkien after being forced to read it and I also think it´s better do discover such a book on your own; but maybe I´m the only one who has got this problem with reading books in class.

I am now in 11th grade and I would like to do something in school concerning LotR or Middle Earth and Tolkien´s work in generall.
A good idea to include Tolkien´s work in school would be a class about Middle Earth for all Tolkien- Fans who like to prove their knowledge and talk about LotR on a higher level.
Maybe this is possible in some of your schools; talking about LotR while studing English literature is a great thing, too I think.

[ March 11, 2003: Message edited by: Narya ]

[hobbit punk]

@Narya

I imagine it was just a special interest thing and probably not a part of the normal curriculum. Still, it is a step up from most schools. Maybe not to read it, but just to acknowledge and discuss the importance, and have students voice their opinions instead of being told by their teacher what they should get out of it.

[Eressië Ailin]

At my school, we are reading The Hobbit right now. We are studying Quenya and Sindarin. Our teacher went to the Barrow-Downs to get our Elvish names!! smilies/smile.gif smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/smile.gif However, I am totally opposed to the Name Generator, so this makes me mad!!! smilies/mad.gif smilies/mad.gif I'm trying to get it through to my teacher that the Name Generator only generates a name; she believes that it translates your name. BTW, in class, we have to call each other the names that the Name Generator gave us. smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

[Narya]

Where do you go to school? It sounds interesting to learn quenya and sindarin.
But does your teacher, who found out your *elvish names*, teaches the languages to you?
smilies/wink.gif

We had to choose a topic we would like to talk about and do a report after that, hobbit punk.
So it wasn´t part of the usual English- classes. Our teacher accepted LotR as well as any other topic we are interested in and I think it´s a very good idea to do such things especially in language- classes.

And @ Eressië Ailin: Do all of the students read The Hobbit and learn Elvish or is it just a small class of Tolkien- fans?

Some suggestions for Tolkien in school, that I could make are:
history of Middle Earth, languages of the diffrent cultures (could be combined with learning about the development of languages in generall) and tales of Tolkien´s world (in the Silmarillion) and their importance and effect.

[Bill Ferny]

“Being forced to read a book…” I have permanent knots on my forehead from this common complaint. You will thank your teachers for forcing you to read those books once you hit your sophomore year of college. Of course, there are those who never accept being challenged as their cup of tea. More is the pity.

In generall I don´t like it when we are reading a book in class and have to answer many questions of our teacher that only lead us to his opinions about the issues in the book. I often tend to think, when we talk about a book in class that we haven´t read completly, that it will be less fun reading the book after our teacher talked about it with us.

Maybe what your teacher is fishing for is some informed opinions from his class. There were days when I would have danced a jig if just one of my students would have stood up and called me an idiot and then explained why I was an idiot.

Elanor brings up two important points to keep in mind.

First, length does play an important role in placing a work of literature on a required reading list, especially at HS level. Poetry and short stories are the fodder of HS literature classes for exactly this reason. As far as assigning a novel (and I would only assign one novel per HS literature class), I would be more inclined toward Bram Stoker’s Dracula, or something similar, rather than LotR, mainly because the length allows for more detailed in class criticism of the work. I would be hesitant about assigning The Hobbit in opposition to other novels that more clearly portray English culture (such as Jane Austin or Charles Dickens); the study of literature isn’t just about the English language, but is also a study in culture, both by place and time. Below the surface of Tolkien’s imaginary world there is much about English culture, but just the thought of digging that out from under the surface in a HS literature class gives me a headache.

Second, administrative approval is every teacher’s ball and chain. Most of the time for good, and some of the time for bad, the school administration approves each teacher’s syllabus. I find it hard to believe that any HS administrator would approve a class singularly devoted to Tolkien or Middle Earth, and for good reason. Like it or not HS is still intended for learning basic academic skills. On the college or graduate level, however, such a class or seminar course may prove fruitful, and such a thing is not unheard of. Introducing the elven languages in a HS language class would likewise be impossible. My students had a hard enough time learning Latin. I can imagine the increase of woe if I had introduced a completely different language into the mix. Origin of languages or etymology courses are best left at the college and graduate level, anyway (unless you are an exceptional linguist, in which case you have my jealous admiration). It’s best to learn your primary and secondary grammar thoroughly at the HS level.

HS curriculums are already lacking in what I would consider essentials, such as emphasis on secondary language skills (a problem rampant in US schools), an introduction to philosophy, trig and calculus, and cultural anthropology. The introduction of Tolkien to the curriculum would fall way down on my list of priorities.

[Lindril Arvilya]

Apparently, however, when you get to the university level, you can dedicate quite a lot of time to Middle-Earth. A friend of a friend of mine, let's call him "Mike", is at university, and he's currently taking a Tolkien course. One of his major projects he's done was to chart the journeys of the Elves back and forth.

[Lathriel]

That sounds like a cool course. I would like to do that if it was available at a university. smilies/tongue.gif

[InklingElf]

Bummer. I wish I [will] have that course when I get into a University... And that's in how many years [counts off her fingers...]

[Lucinda]

Well, at any rate, LotR has got to be better than Shakespeare- I mean come on! They think 14 and 15 year olds are going to fing Twelfth night interesting! I personally couldent
care less whether Orsino discovers Cesario is actually Viola, fires her, and she curls up in corner and dies.
We ought to read one of the books- that wouldnt be too long for most people.

[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: Lucinda ]

[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: Lucinda ]

[Novlamothien]

I was introduced to LOTR by my teacher last year. We studied the trilogy in school that year- for six months!! I, of course, went out and bought and read the last two books after I finished FOTR (Twice) about six weeks ahead of everyone. I do think it would be too long to study in a large school, but it was a tiny private school so we had time. It really was nice, my teacher was able to call to my attention to various words and passages and make us think ( and talk) about things I normaly wouldn't do. I now know way too much about LOTR.

Namarie

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

*grins* I have very revolutionary ideas about education... Learned absolutely nothing of value in high school, though elementary school was quite good.

But even looking from the traditional viewpoint I have to say, I agree with the group saying that LoTR in high schools (or colleges for that matter) would turn more people off than teach them appreciation for Tolkien (which is in fact, my biggest gripe with education as it currently functions, more people are turned off to learning than are effectively taught). Those who are "destined" to become Tolkien fans will find him on their own, especially with the movies out there advertising. Those who aren't yet Tolkien fans won't become them by having his work stuffed down their throats.

Sophia- who's feeling a bit feisty

[Tinuviel Took]

I am homeschooled so I guess you can say I was taught Tolkien in school as my parents read the LOTR to me. However this reminded me of my friend Irene. She taught 7th and 8th graders, and to get the boys (Why only guys are supposed to like fanticy and Sci-fi is beyond me. I also like Star Trek and Star Wars) interested in reading something she'd read the hobbit in class. Often they would go on to read the LOTR trillogy.

[Annalaliath]

at the highschool i went to we had the hobbit and i was aloud to read the FOTR in my Sinor English classs, of courds i was the only one. yes there is Tolkien in schools. In the Librarie we had lots of tolkien books and many of them got lost. Now here at this University we have many tolkien books and i have many of them checked out.

[kittiewhirl1677]

Tinuviel Took-
I agree, why is it mostly only boys who like sci-fi and fic? I like star trek and star wars too!

But back on topic:
Yes, I agree with a previous group of people saying that forcing Tolkien in school would be like making you like something, forcing you to take on a style of writing and fiction that you just don't like. That makes people turn away from it quicker than if they take their own time to read it.

We just recently read the book, 'Bone from a Dry Sea' in school, and it was a very good book. I only thought it was good because I swallowed it all up, ignoring the 'deep thinking' our teacher made us do. It takes a while for people to really force me into something so much that I start hating it. Other people who had to read it too, though, hated it because for them, just the idea of limited freedom in what you read is terrifying.

[ April 17, 2003: Message edited by: kittiewhirl1677 ]

[Rindoien, elf of Lothlorien]

Quizzes on that would be brilliant smilies/smile.gif I agree with some of the other people, it might put people off Tolkien for life if they were forced to read it. However, we have to read books that never 'made it' in the literary world. That really p***** me off (apologies about the language). Please, corriculum (is that spelled right?) send us some Tolkien!