Which was your favorite character (ONLY THE ONES BELOW)

[Blackknife]

Which character is the better fighter Faramir,Gimli,Eomer,Theoden,or Ugluk (only these characters please)and why (within the bounds of reality no assuming).
p.s. please don't mention other characters. smilies/smile.gif

[Idunn]

You do not give much choice...Can I ask why do you propose only these guys?

[Iarwain]

Well, let's look at this logically.

Eomer killed Ugluk in one on one combat, so we have:

Eomer>Ugluk

Eomer triumphed on the same battle field that Theoden was killed in, and Theoden was a fairly old man, so:

Eomer>Theoden & Ugluk

Sadly, that's as far as we can go by reason, because the others' skills were not tested against each other (especially Faramir), so within the bounds of reality, and without assuming, I would be able to confidently say that Eomer was better than Theoden and Ugluk, but Gimli and Faramir never fought on a scale that could be easily judged or compared.

If I could go outside the bounds of fact, and form a supposition, I might suppose that Eomer was also superiour to Gimli, because of his riding skills. Then, left with Faramir, I would say that Eomer was inferior as a captain, but superior as a fighter. So, in the end for fighting I would suppose that the ranks would be:

Eomer>Gimli>Faramir>Ugluk>Theoden

and for leadership skills I would rank them:

Theoden>Faramir>Eomer>Ugluk>Gimli

Iarwain

[The Only Real Estel]

I would rank Eomer than Gimli than Faramir as the top 3 fighters, in that order...

[Yavanna228]

I agree with Iarwain, for the reasons he stated above. It is difficult to see how Faramir and Gimli would pan out, since they weren't against each other or in a battle where their successes may be compared. But that's been said already. So, yes, I would choose Eomer as the top fighter, and Theoden as the best leader, especially after his rejuvenation.
Peace

[the phantom]

Here's an interesting quote from when Eowyn meets Faramir in ROTK-
And she looked at him and saw the grave tenderness in his eyes, and yet knew, for she was bred among men of war, that here was one whom no Rider of the Mark would outmatch in battle.
Here's a couple other places in LOTR speaking of Faramir-
'But things may change when Faramir returns. He is bold, more bold than many deem; for in these days men are slow to believe that a captain can be wise and learned in the scrolls of lore and song, as he is, and yet a man of hardihood and swift judgement in the field. But such is Faramir. Less reckless and eager than Boromir, but not less resolute.'
'Look! the men are thrown; they are running on foot. No, one is still up, but he rides back to the others. That will be the Captain: he can master both beasts and men.'
I always got the impression from the books that Faramir was the man.

[Lhunardawen]

Faramir! Faramir! He's the man!!! smilies/biggrin.gif

Seriously though, we could not really compare them much. Not unless they fight each other. But as the phantom said, Faramir has the edge.

Yay!!! Faramir!!! smilies/biggrin.gif

[Arwen Eruantale]

Logically, I would say:

Eomer > Gimli > Faramir

smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

Ugluk? No way, man. Orcs (even the Uruk Hai) were meant more for mass production than brains or technique.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Ugluk is not intelligent enough.

Theoden is not agile enough.

Gimli has the height disadvantage.

I think it definitely comes down to Eomer or Faramir. I remember Eomer making a mistake in the battle of Helms Deep (he was saved by Gimli).

However, it would be harsh to stack this against Eomer because Faramir was never really given an opportunity to make a mistake in the books (if you see what I mean)

Unfortunately (?) the two Men are fast friends now so, unless Faramir starts treating Eowyn badly, I doubt we'll find out who the better fighter is!

[The Only Real Estel]

I'm afraid I must change mine to:

Eomer>Faramir>Gimli

[ August 21, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

[Lyta_Underhill]

Gimli has the height disadvantage.
Ah, but Gimli is, by design, the most tireless and enduring of all of them! For that was innate in the Dwarves' nature as Aulë imbued them with the characteristics he prized most highly. It is difficult to say which would be the best fighter, except to say that it would take a good balance of intelligence, leadership ability and physical prowess with a minimum of accompanying disadvantages.

Another point: Theoden fell prey to the counsels of Wormtongue, not completely or utterly, but he is influenced by this influx of evil in his midst. While he is an exceptional leader, he does have weaknesses. I would be hard pressed to pick between Theoden and Faramir for leadership, but I think perhaps Faramir has it over Theoden in judgement skills but perhaps not in overall leadership. Just from impressions, I'd say Eomer would top Faramir in physical prowess, but there is the question of what constitutes the ideal in physical prowess; Gimli is tireless and could fight until doomsday AND forge great weapons, while Eomer and Faramir will eventually give out. He is also more easily concealed, being smaller (but arguably louder). Disadvantages, though, are in temperament, but this could be said for Eomer as well. I'd rule Ugluk out completely, as he certainly didn't fend off the Rohirrim very well, did he? Bad planning, bad leadership, scatter and run tactics--really don't help one win a fight unless there is organization at the end of it. Basically, the orcs are dog eat dog when it comes to strategy.

So, tentatively, not completely logically, for there are variables that can't be drawn to equality:

Faramir>Eomer>Theoden>Gimli>Ugluk

Theoden over Gimli for the leadership qualities, Faramir over all for a measure of leadership, keen intelligence/strategy and a measure of physical prowess: best balance IMO, Eomer over Theoden for prowess and steadfastness.

I know my analysis isn't very logical, but I'd say Faramir and Theoden would be co-generals, checking each other, while Eomer would be the field marshall and Gimli the tireless captain AND munitions engineer! Ugluk would be the one who digs the trenches smilies/wink.gif

Cheers,
Lyta (who doesn't really know if she made any sense at all, but enjoyed the exercise)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Lyta, I see what you mean about Gimli's endurance. However, in a one-on-one fight, I'm sure Eomer or Faramir would both manage to kill him.

[Frwek]

Gimli...hes short ,cute and funny...lol..remember in TTT he ask Aragorn to swing him cos he was too short to jump...that part was funny.... smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Arwen Eruantale]

Welcome to the Downs, Frwek! "O happy to be dead!" smilies/evil.gif

[Kaiserin]

In terms of fighting skill, I'd say:
Eomer > Gimli > Faramir > Ugluk = Theoden

Eomer is undoubtedly skilled in battle.
Gimli does have a height disadvantage, but he's got might in his axe swing, in spite his lack of height.
I'm not too decided about who is better between Theoden and Ugluk - Ugluk was slain, but he put up a good fight; Theoden fell (literally and figuratively), but of course we can't see much of his skill because he was old.

[the phantom]

Gimli...hes short ,cute and funny
...which naturally makes him a kick-butt fighter. smilies/tongue.gif

Anyway, as some of those quotes that I posted earlier demonstrate, I believe the books give Faramir the nod concerning his leadership, wisdom, and fighting skills.

[Novberaid]

Eomer

[Lord of Angmar]

I think that Faramir was probably the best fighter (in addition to be the best leader) of all of them. He had keen, far-seeing eyes, an Elvish wisdom about him, and he was very strong and of noble line. Eomer and Gimli come in second in my opinion. The fact that a short fat Dwarf with an axe could kill as many orcs as a great Elven archer (Legolas) is enough to make Gimli on par with Eomer's obviously awesome fighting abilities. Theoden would have been a good fighter in his prime, but was weaker as an old man so has a decided disadvantage. Orcs never seem to be good pure fighters, which is why there always must be far more orcs than Men, Dwarves or Elves for orcs to win the battle. Along this line of thinking, I would place Ugluk last among them all. This is a very strange selection of people to rate, and I should say that it is hard to do it accurately beyond one's own suppositions, since few of them are really measured against one another in the books.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Angmar, that's why the discussion can continue for as long as it has!

Concerning the Dwarves physique, they're not fat, they're just well-built and sturdy.

Concerning Faramir, I think he is quite clearly the most complete character, not only in this list but in the entire book (with the probable exception of Aragorn).

However, this topic concerns fighting. And I know that Eowyn thought he could beat any Rohan soldier but her first impressions might not be perfect.

Eomer v Faramir would at least draw a lot of money on PPV!

[Lord of Angmar]

Eomer v Faramir would at least draw a lot of money on PPV!

Very true! smilies/biggrin.gif

I did not mean to insult Gimli son of Gloin by labeling him as "fat". I just meant... well... slightly less mobile than a Man of Gondor/Rohan or an Elf.

[BlingBlingtheWarriorElf]

Gimli is the best because he just keeps going and going and going. Than Eomer>Faramir>Theoden>Ugluk

[the phantom]

Gimli would keep going and going... if it weren't for the fact that Faramir would cut him up before five minutes was up.

Even a duel between evenly matched participants doesn't last very long. All it takes is one good swipe or thrust. Think of the fights you've been in. They were over pretty quick, weren't they? Endurance would be a big help in a battle but it's not nearly as useful in a one on one fight (unless it's a fighting sport like boxing where they have lots of rules for the exact purpose of making the fight longer).

[Ughósh the Abominable]

Heh, it'd be funny to say Ugluk and just turn everyone's head smilies/tongue.gif.

But I'm not going to do that. What I am going to do, however, is try and whipe some of the smudge off of Gimli's good name. I think one negative thing that has come of the Lord of the Rings movies is the perpetuation of the view of Gimli as some tottering bag of comic relief with the voice and face of Sala from Indiana Jones. I *never* imagined Gimli as anything like this in the books. To me, he was always a very Dwarvish character: sort of bitter, tragic maybe, yet defiant and stout, and fierce in battle, with a fierceness that comes from vengeance. He is, without doubt, an extremely skilled warrior, probably among the best the Dwarves have to offer in the late Third Age (which explains why he was sent in the Fellowship). I mean, come on! He dove through the thick of battle at Helm's Deep and came out relatively unscathed, with 42 kills to his name (*saving* Eomer in the process, I might add). Simple he may be, and perhaps lacking in finesse (how much grace can you really display when wielding an axe); but he's not just some fat, comical little gnome played by Jon Rhys-Davis.

And about that whole "size disadvantage" thing? Come on, people; it's not the size that counts, it's how you use it. smilies/wink.gif

Ok, you've got me; I'm a bit of a dwarf fan-boy. Come on, you know you love them. But getting back to this thread's original purpose. I took the question to mean something more like "who has the most raw battle prowess". I think Theoden is definitely out; while he has many years' worth of battles behind him, they have left their mark, and he simply can't match any of the other candidates for strength or speed. I tend to agree that Ugluk is out from the start; come on, he's a bloody orc, even if he is "hai". Then we have Gimli, Eomer, and Faramir. Eomer is indeed mighty in arms, but he is quite young. Many might deem this a big advantage, except when you consider this: he is a Middle-Man, and only 27 years old by the time of the War of the Ring. Faramir, however, is about 35, young indeed for a Dunadan, yet 8 years older--and more experienced in battle--than Eomer. And Gimli tops both of them, being 39. It's not a huge margin, but it's still there, and important when comparing three warriors whom I believe are so close together in prowess. The thing is, Faramir, Gimli, and Eomer all have prowess, but Faramir and Gimli both have significantly more experience, which is equally important. Therefore I believe that Faramir and Gimli both surpass Eomer in raw combat power. And finally, I honestly think that a balls-out brawl between Faramir and Gimli would end with both combatants dead, unless one of them was significantly luckier that day than the other. So in the end, I must name Faramir and Gimli as my favoured fighters from the above list. And I guess I'll go one step further: Dwarves are my favourite Tolkien race, therefore Gimli wins. smilies/biggrin.gif

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I guess in a one-on-one fight, anything can happen. One contestant could be having a 'bad day', for example.

[the phantom]

I guess in a one-on-one fight, anything can happen. One contestant could be having a 'bad day', for example.
Too true. It's the same way with sports teams. How do you think the Patriots beat the Rams in the Super Bowl?

I'm kind of making my judgements based on who would win a best out of seven series of fights.
(of course, you can't really have a series of duels to the death because...well...whoever lost the first one is dead smilies/biggrin.gif but you get the idea, it's who would win most of the time)

[nPiLL]

Well considerding if haven't gotten to read all of the books yet im not going to judge any of the fighting skills of these characters. Although i do know the fighting skills of most of the characters except Eomer. Can someone tell me who he is?

[steve]

One thing you all managed to overlook, which is one main component to how much power a single person wields in battle is the weapons that they use, and how they use them in accordance with their fighting skills and their own tallents
Faramir:Sword-Bow:Ranger(he can hide more easily and more or less blend in with his surroundings if he would like

Gimli:Axes (many Axes):As mentioned Gimli is very enduring and dexterious, plus Gimli's fighting style is that more about a beserker, and it is shown in REAL history that even the greatest armies including the romans had trouble fighting and to hand with tribes that used axes and fought with a more or elss "beserker" style, Plus gimli is a Dwarf, so he is shoer, that enables him an ADVANTAGE, if the oponent has to swing downward to hit gimli it is much harder for him to deliver a death blow or critical hit

Eomer:Sword-Lance: Eomer is, as we all know a Rider of Rohan, so not only is he proficent in fighting on foot he can also fight on his steed, fighting on a horse would grant Eomer invaluable mobility and the chance for a very strong first strike with a lance, which would render most oponents helpless

Theoden:Sword, I can not say much for theoden for we did not see much of his fighting style, Theoden, to me, seems much more like a cavileer or a paladin, But also, Theoden IS old, and as we can see, he can not handle his own horse, he proabably could not stand up to many in hand to hand battle

Ugluk:Sword, Ugluk is an Uruk-Hai, plain and simple, Yes Eomer bested him in battle, but Eomer had the suprise attack, Eomer was battle ready and Ugluk was not, anyway, Ugluck fights much like Gimli does, and the Uruk-Hai are bread as warriors and nothing more, they have no contious no morality no weaknesses, they are bread and tought not to feel pain and are driven into a sort of bloodlusted state in battle, Which would make him a formidable oponent

[Oliphaunts_Rule]

My apolagies to not posting anything in the past month
Gimli is the best I think, or wait are we talkin' 'bout the book or the movie?!
In the movie Gimli had the scare tactic down but Farimir had that sneaky apeal.

[Rick]

I think that Faramir was probably a better fighter than Eomir, since he was a Dunadan. He faced the Nazgul!

[Fedaeglin]

Gimli is small, but he is a battle tank. GIMLI ROCKS!!! smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

[Lord Melkor]

Now I must protest against the notion that Ugluk is a bad leader. He would've escaped from the Rohirrim if those bumbling scouts of his hadn't let Eomer's scouts get away. He said it himself that they should've killed the scouts, so his failure to fend off Eomer's attack isn't because of his lack in leadership ablities, but more because his scouts' incompetence, being mere orcs instead of the fighting Uruk-Hai smilies/tongue.gif .

Ugluk is quite a good leader, compared to Orc standards and he did a good job, in spite of rebellious Northern Orcs and a conniving Grishnakh.