Who is your favorite bad guy in the Lord of the Rings?

[Vráin Redmallet]

I personally feel that the toughest guy in the series is Morgoth. He created things so evil, not even Sauron dared disturb them. The only one that Sauron conversed with was Shelob the Spider. Who do you prefer? smilies/cool.gif

[ElanorGamgee]

My favorite bad guy, er, gal from The Lord of the Rings is Lobelia Sackville-Baggins because she wasn't really that evil, turned out ok in the end, and was overall an amusing character. Now, the really evil guys I didn't like much at all, although I did feel sorry for Wormtongue smilies/smile.gif

[ May 18, 2002: Message edited by: ElanorGamgee ]

[Nufaciel]

Mine was Gollum. We likessss the way he talksssss, oh yessss, my precioussss....

[Vráin Redmallet]

Yeah, I forgot about Gollum. He is pretty cool. Hissing isss funses...yesss my preciousss? smilies/biggrin.gif

[Lindolirian]

yes gollum was great but i'd hafta say...

the Silent Watchers.
they are so cool.

[greyhavener]

I thought Saruman was the most interesting bad guy. Gandalf turned to him for wisdom and support, but Saruman's desire for power had already corrupted him by the time Gandalf arrived in FOTR to consult with him. I want to find the story of how this transformation took place. Did Sauron deceive Saruman or did Saruman have a character flaw that only surfaced when the opportunity to rival Sauron presented itself? I find it very interesting that even after Sauron's destruction, Saruman went about doing small evil, unwilling to admit defeat or submit to another's leadership. This is a fascinating end for one who was once, at least in other's perceptions, Gandalf's better.

[Cimmerian]

Denethor, bad eggs with a touch of Dementia are awesome.

[Vráin Redmallet]

Yes, Saruman was a good bad guy. He does have a good play in the story, and the story behind him would be most interesting... smilies/cool.gif

[Melephelwen]

My favourite isss definately Gollum!

Maybe I remember badly, but I think parts of Sarumans story is mentioned in Silmarillion (under 'Third age and the rings of power', something like that?)

[burrahobbit]

Sam.

[ElanorGamgee]

Oh, I forgot about Gollum! Yesss, preciousss, we loves him!

[VanimaEdhel]

*does a double take* SAM?!?! Okay... not even going to ask...

Well, I'd say the evilest bad guy would have to be Melkor, for all the other evil sprung from him. In the way of my favorite bad guy, I have to say Gollum, because he was the most complex. And there are MANY discussions of that if you don't know what I mean (I'm too lazy to go into details).

[Lanniae of the Axe]

Oh, I never really cared for any of the bad guys. I pitied Gollum, but that was IT. Other than pity, I loathe the creature! Saruman was a traitor! All the bad guys were...well...BAD!

But the one bad guy you LOVE to HATE:

Grima Wormtongue!!!!!

The slimiest rat with a serpents tongue that ever whispered in a King's ear.

[Lothiriel Silmarien]

Ok, well I would have to say Morgoth because he was the evilest of them all. But other than the obvious, I'd have to say Gollum of course, and Feanor. Well, he wasn't really bad I wouldn't say that, but he actually was in a sense. He started the whole rivalry between the Noldor and the Valar. Oh and Maeglin too. See he wasn't that badd either, BUT he did betray Gondolin to Morgoth. He was held for his life though, so I kinda see both sides. He was both evil and not evil, if you get what I mean. Which I doubt that any of you do because I mighta lost you guys! Hope I'm not confusing you all smilies/smile.gif Oh, and let's not forget the Barrow-wights! Those things were pretty scary. And of course, the Nazguls! I sometimes call them the Nazgys.....

[burrahobbit]

You see, Sam is not unlike a pet dog. Frodo's pet dog, in this case. A dog may react poorly to any stimulus if it thinks that it's master in in danger, Sam is exactly the same way. Sam saw Gollum as a threat to his master Frodo, and to a point Gollum was a threat. However, I would say that once he had been tamed Gollum presented only a limited threat. Gollum searved the Ring, though he may not have wanted to, and to an extent Frodo controlled the Ring (at least as far as Gollum could see. Because of that I don't think that Gollum would have done anything to hinder Frodo until the very end of the journey at Mount Doom, where Gollum's will would have been broken very quickly and events would have played out much the same way that they did.

But. But because of Sam's doglike nature he couldn't help but treat Gollum rather badly. Gollum was a killer, this can't be denied. Gollum easily gave into temptation, this is a fact. Gollum was not a good person at all. Gollum was not a threat after the Emyn Muil. Sam's derisive attitude towards Gollum was not needed at all. Sam's derisive towards Gollum broke Gollum's mind and will much sonner than it would have otherwise, and thus put both Frodo and Sam into much danger that was not needed (Shelob, etc.). And so, Sam's cruel treatment of Gollum did great harm to the hero, Frodo. I can't blame him, though, he meant well. (I can't help but feel that I have heard that before, he meant well.)

[shieldmaiden]

Shelob, Gollum and Denethor, I simply adore his madness and looking forward to seeing him in the movie.

[Gimli Son Of Gloin]

I would say my favorite was Gollum, he was just cool.

P.S. Who do you prefer? The correct form would be "Whom do you prefer? (Hope I don't sound sound snobby or anything, Vráin. I just can't stand errors like that, I guess I'm just a freak)

[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: Gimli Son Of Gloin ]

[piosenniel]

If you'll concede it's a character - I'll vote for the One Ring. It was , by nature, thoroughly evil and certainly influenced all the other major characters and moved the plot along by its machinations.

[Veritas]

Yes, the baddest (Ihope I wrote that right?) thing is het One Ring, but the baddest guy? Mmm... I think Morgoth and Sauron. Morgoth 'made' evil and Sauron made the One Ring.

[piosenniel]

You are up early, veritas! & i am up late!
welcome to the downs!!

If we must vote for a bad 'guy' - then I'll take Morgoth - after all, without him there would be no story. Everything would have gone along wonderfully from the beginning of all things. And there would have been no glorious battles to read about or fallen heroes to cry over! smilies/wink.gif

[Veritas]

Here in Holland it's now 9.00 so that's not early for me...

[piosenniel]

I am working at a very 'slow' computer at the moment and can only bring up one screen at a time so I couldn't access my international times screen. It is just after midnight here on the pacific coast of the U.S.

Are you coming to the birthday party for the Downs? It will be today at 9 a.m. - my only problem is I haven't figured out which 9 a.m. that is! (yes, I am bad with time!)

[Veritas]

The only thing I know is that when it's in continental Europe 3.00 pm, in New York it's 9.00 am.
But how far away that's from the Pacific coast. I think a hour or 3 or something? In time, I mean.

[Veritas]

Sorry, why do you have that stupid system with pm and am!!! Europe 15.00 NY 9.00

[piosenniel]

When it's 9 a.m. in New York, it's 6 a.m. on the pacific coast.

Is there a 1 hour difference between your time and Great Britain?

[Veritas]

Yes, continental Europe has + 1 hour difference with GMT.

btw, I haven't done a search yet, but how can you import a picture by your name?

[piosenniel]

Veritas - We also use the 24 hour clock here; but primarily for military time and also in hospital, where I work. Most of the rest of the U.S. uses the a.m./p.m. mode.

I'll send you a private message about how to put a picture under your name.

Please come down to the role-playing section of the forum in the Freestyle RPG room and join the birthday party for this site.

[Grendel]

Gollum is given more lines and more personality than any of the other bad guys in ME. He is interesting because he was on the border line of recovery, despite all the evil he had done. He has a personal history which rouses sympathy and a character so well crafted that he stands out among all the monsters ever created. He is the only bad creature in the LotR with which I empathise and identify.

[Legolas]

Vrain - that's rather odd. Morgoth doesn't appear in Lord of the Rings...he's still hanging out in the Void at the time of the quest. In your topic title, did you mean Middle-earth in general?

Anyway, my favourite evil character is Saruman. Wizards! smilies/cool.gif smilies/cool.gif smilies/cool.gif

[piosenniel]

Hello Grendel - how appropriate that you should be in this thread! Mythic monsters should know best what defines them!!

Oh, and btw - Welcome to the Downs!

& let me extend an invitation to the site's 2nd birthday party now in full mad swing in the role playing section of the forum - the Freestyle RPG Room, to be exact!

[Daniel Telcontar]

Ah, Grendel from the story of Beowulf. But you're right, Piosenniel; Whe should leave this discussion and go to the birthday party. Even Grendel is invited, if he doesn't create to much havoc smilies/biggrin.gif

[piosenniel]

I'm at the party! Where are you? & what do you look like and what festive clothes are you wearing? It's a large crowd, how shall I spy you out?

& Grendel - do come!!

[Reyna Evergreen]

What about the Nuzgul?! Has anyone thought that the nine Nazgul spread havock and fear everywhere they went? So what if they didn't last, they are my favourite evil psycopaths!! Nazgul are definitaly on top of the bestest evil charaters.

I still can't believe no one said anything about the Nazgul!!

Other than them, Morgoth rules.

Don't ask, when I get into the mood, I always fall for the darkest, most evil-looking hunk out there...^.^

[onewhitetree]

P.S.

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who do you prefer?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The correct form would be "Whom do you prefer? (Hope I don't sound sound snobby or anything, Vráin. I just can't stand errors like that, I guess I'm just a freak)

(Italics by moi.)

The correct form would be, "I just can't stand errors like that; I guess I'm just a freak."

Alas for the lost semicolons! Alas, alas.

*weeps*

[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: onewhitetree ]

[piosenniel]

Reyna Evergreen

Welcome to the Downs! And as for the Nazgul, please come to the birthday party in the RPG section of the forum - the Nazgul have declared a cease-fire and you can party with them to your dark heart's content!!

[Veritas]

Thank you for the help with my picture, Piosenniel!
It has to be shown when I post my message. So we'll see!

[Veritas]

Why the **** it's not working!?!?!
I'll have to go to school now, so I'll try when I come home. smilies/mad.gif smilies/mad.gif

[piosenniel]

Veritas - what sort of picture do you want? do you have the address for one. perhaps i can find one for you.

[Niphredil Baggins]

I can't believe it! Nobody has voted for THE BARROW-WIGHT! I sure will, he was frightening and the Barrow was a place of stale magic -wonderful. Maybe this site has somehow affected my opinion. But the Old Forest is the first section of the book to truly impress me. Old Man Willow is a sure runner-up.

If we go to Silmarillion, I'd say Eöl and Maeglin. I once wrote a fanfic with Maeglin in it.

[Veritas]

The offical LOTR site. By galleries is one of a swan kind of thing, I believe it's that boat of Galadriel. O wathever.
I just done: left klik picture-> properties -> block the URL (adres) -> my profile -> copy to that thingy and update my profile? Maybe the picture was to small/big, I used the thumbnail.
O well, I'll seek further.

Btw who's the Barrow-wight? I read the LOTR in dutch, so the names are different. Is it that gost-thingy who leads Frodo etc. in that tempel? Well that one is scary too.

[Veritas]

He I just she it's working. I'm so stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/redface.gif

[stone of vision]

Here's the result of my "favourite bad guys" festival:
In Lotr
Bronze palm... for Saruman, cunning, perfidious and what an actor he is, that istari!
Silver palm...for Gollum. I like his "precioussssnesss" very much and the merrier his facinating personnality.
Gold palm ... for the... Balrog because I fell in love with him the first time I saw him in the movie! lol!

In the silmarillion,
Well, Feanor is the one who is succeeding going through my heart of stone ineluctably, arrgh!

[Lothiriel Silmarien]

I said the Barrow-wights and the Nazguls were one of my favorites too. I just write everything too long and people just pass my posts by. I wouldn't read them either if I wasn't me! Gotta love the Nazgys.

[Niphredil Baggins]

LOL! Temple? Big wormy grave it was, and the grost-thing had a sword... see that sword at the top of the page...

[littlemanpoet]

Bad guy I most love to hate?

Would have to be one of Feanor's seven sons, Curufin, the blackest, meanest, most traitorous elf every known. Worse than Maeglin, I'd say. Even his own son Celebrimbor disowned him. He tried to force-marry Luthien. A real blackguard.

[Flute the elf]

smilies/evil.gif the evil/sinister characters are some of my favorites! (I, of course, love the elves too)

#1 evil: Morgoth!
#2: the witch king, + nazgul
#3: balrogs
#4: sauron
#5: saruman (as played by christopher lee)

[Evenstar1]

Okay. My favorite LOTR bad-guy...

Well, this is difficult b/c I'm not sure if you mean who is the "baddest" or who I loved the most? So I'll give you both:

Baddest: Sauron! Just that big, fat, one red eye, sittin' in that big, dank, dark tower...(Morgoth wasn't in LOTR).

But I am completely smitten by Smeagol/Gollum! He is tooooo precioussss! Yesss he issss!

[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: Evenstar1 ]

[Perelin_Took]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! I WANNA SAY WHO MY FAVORITE BAD...GUY....DUDE...PERSON...UM....YEAH. WELL, ANYWAY.........OH!!!! I JUST LOOOOOOOOOVE THE RING! I MEAN, IT IS CONCIDERED TO BE A BAD GUY, RIGHT? DONT YOU THINK? I MEAN, I FOUND THIS LOTR SCRIPT ON THE INTERNET, AND THE RING HAS LINES! IT DOES! YAY! SO, IN CONCLUSION (I LOVE SAYING THAT, EVEN THOUGH I NEVER SAY IT. MAKES ME SOUND SMART, YIKES!) THE ONE RING IS MY FAVORITE BAD GUY!!!!!!!! SHIBBY!

[Keeper-of-Vilya]

My fav bad guy would have to be Gollum... I love the way he talks - hobbitese, pocketses, - and that slinker stinker part too ! Gollum is cool !

Although I have always had this wierd facination with the... can you call him person... the Mouth of Sauron. I mean can you imagine being so devoted to someone that you forget your name, where you are from, everything about yourself ? Man !

[GreatWarg]

Evilest bad guy I would definitely go for Sauron. He deceives, he deceives sum more, and never gives in. Perfect example of bad guy. First, he deceives Sauron, then Gandalf, Wormtongue, and even himself. And the guy's a genius, an istari, in other words: V. powerful. And still power-hungry, wanting the One Ring so he can "Rule over ME with wisdom." no treally, but anyways...

[Aosama, the Wandering Star]

Are we going for the best (worst?) bad guy or the one you liked (hated?) the most? Ah well.
My personal favourite would have to be the Barrow-Wight. I even gave a tune to his song, and memorized passages from his chapter. Gollum and Shelob are close. Let's face it: Sauron doesn't do much in the books, Saruman is reduced to practically nothing before he dies. The Barrow-wight was very tanigible, very real and he scared me half to death (forgive the pun...) smilies/smile.gif

[Lush]

The Witchking of Angmar.
Cold, bloodthirsty, extremely rude to wizards, neither dead nor alive. That definitely grabbed me.

[Flute the elf]

honestly I dont consider gollum/smeagol evil...I LOVED the char. but he isn't sinister or dark. he's just been corrpted by the power of the ring..to me that doesn't make him evil....yes i kno that's what happened to many other ppl to make them evil, but they have POWER and they actually do evil things..sorry gollum!

[dragongirlG]

My favorite is Saruman. He's such a fascinating character.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

For sheer brooding, self-obsessed misanthropy, I'd have to go for Eol. I know that he's not one of the big players, but his actions are so unnecessarily nasty that I think he merits a mention.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Whoops. I just re-read the title of this topic and realised my crass mistake. I'll revise my choice to Saruman, supreme git of the Istari.

[akhtene]

smilies/evil.gif Are we discussing evil guys or bad guys? Of the evil I'd vote for the Nazgul. They had got what they wanted and they paid for it.

As for the bad... Don't you agree that Eru, who created it all and let others sort out all the problems was BAD !

2Veritas: You'd better try to read it in English. I believe you'll enjoy it. Translations are terrible. I for one just couldn't read it in my language. smilies/wink.gif

[ June 01, 2002: Message edited by: akhtene ]

[ June 03, 2002: Message edited by: akhtene ]

[Ivy of the Woods]

Saruman is my fav, he's such a traitor.
Christopher Lee (Saruman) did a really good job in LOTR, I was very impressed smilies/biggrin.gif

[Nar]

I don't know... Burrahobbit makes such a good case for Sam pushing Gollum over the edge into total villainy, and since Gollum is the best, saddest, funniest bad guy, Sam, as his incitor, gets top bad guy honors-- yes, I used to like Sam, but now I see he's bad, bad, bad ... you, Burrahobbit, have done this thing! Gotta reread the books now my eyes have been opened.

[Pukel-Man]

The Witch-King smilies/evil.gif

[Kidd2323]

The bad entity that gets my vote would be Glaurung the Dragon. While I realize he was created of/made by/ born of Melkor, his destruction of Nargothrond and his subsequent dealings with the children of Hurin -- turning them incestuous! -- was one of the truly sick and mischievious deeds ever conducted throughout the entire History of Middle-earth. It took a truly blackened heart to do such a deed. I vote it the most evil deed done by the most evil creature.

[Morima]

Hi all! Saruman isn't only my favourite bad-guy but my fav LotR caracter, after all, he has a SOMEwhat and quite interesting personality and history! smilies/cool.gif He isn't all that bad either, he had (I presume) perfectly good intentions once, but Sauron decieved him (then quite easily, because Saruman is TOO obsessed with power for a maia...). And let me make it clear that the poor man was totally raving mad at the end of the book -- that's why he got so obsessed with getting revenge over Frodo for destroying the Ring or what (pardon my bad english I'm Norwegian smilies/smile.gif)

Saruman is da coolest! smilies/evil.gif But I think he needed a girlfriend.

[stone of vision]

A girlfriend?! lol! Morima,
What a great idea!
What would be the best candidate?! smilies/wink.gif
What a pity Gandalf has not a sister! smilies/biggrin.gif

BTW, Welcome to Barrow Downs and enjoy yourself

[Cathelm]

Speaking for one of my friends, I'd say gollum is the scariest character. We have to call him mullog around her (read it backwards) or else she gets freaked out and runs away. I don't know how she's going to get through the two towers...

Anyways, does anyone else feel sorry for those black horses that the Nazgul got from Rohan and turned evil? That is the most evil thing ever done! Poor horses! Bad Nazgul! EEEEEEEEVIL!

[Calencoire]

Well, Sauron was the ultimate enemy, smilies/evil.gif and Morgoth was even worse in his time. Most of the other "bad guys" were really just corrupted. For example, Sauroman thought that there was no hope at all, so he thought it better to join evil than to be defeated by it. Gollum was corrupted by the ring, and therefore Sauron. The Ringwaiths were slaves to Sauron with there nine rings, and Theoden was corrupted by the Palantir and, like Sauroman, thought that there was no hope. Enough babbling, Sauron was the bad guy.

[White Knight]

While I read the books, the evil guys that gave me the shivers were the Ringwraiths and the balrog. Saruman was just a power hungry wizard, he wasn't that scary to me.

But my favorite is Gollum you can't help but pity him.

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: White Knight ]

[MYyyPreciousSS]

I would say my favorite bad guy would definitely be Gollum. Even though i've never really thought of Gollum as a bad guy, guess he kinda was. We lovess gollum yess....

[Catherine]

I really don't have a favorite bad guy cuz they are bad. LOL

[Aragost]

Morgoth,because he created the first dragon. smilies/evil.gif smilies/evil.gif

[Angmar_the_Horrible]

The Witch-King of Angmar, of course.
He is not only my favourite bad guy, he is
my favourite of them ALL. Can't tell exactly
why...He is fascinating, we don't know much
about him. He is cold, cruel and nearly
immortal. On the other hand, I always felt
sorry for him and his fate (as I did for all
the Nazgul).

By the way, to me one of the most evil
characters is Turin Turambar -but he is meant
to be on the "good" side...I just don't like
him, he did evil things, often just out of
his own pride and arrogance.

[Elven_Princess88]

I'd have to say that Morgoth was the best baddie Tolkien created because he is if possible the worst type of evil imaginable i mean even his own creations feared him. But in the Lord of the Rings i have to say that the eye of sauron was best because you always got the feeling it was watching frodo where eva he went.

[Uialellethwen]

Orcs rule! I don't like wraiths because they are so dependant and I don't like Sauron because he's helpless. In a very odd sense. Anyways, ORCS ROCK! smilies/smile.gif

[Lady_Galadriel]

my fav has to be gollum. i love the hissing!! The Nazgul are the coolest and scariest evil there. They even creep up in dreams... scary.... But the one ring is the abouve all evil

[The Viking Thunder]

Tom Bombadil, a perfect nuisance.

[Brinniel]

In FOTR, my fav villian was the Nazgul. They're just so dark and creepy. Each time they were in a part I was reading, my hands would be stuck to the book and I could not put it down!

My fav villian in TTT and ROTK is Gollum. He has the most different and strange personality, a type of personality you won't see in other books. He has a good side and a bad side. I remember when I first read LOTR, I kept hoping Slinker would overcome Stinker, but unfortunately that never came to be.

[Morima]

Stone of Vision: Don't wanna go there!! smilies/biggrin.gif Hmm... A candidate for Sarumans girlfriend? I don't think any of the LotR females could be. But that super-vain istar seems quite feminine, though, so maybe he'd prefer a man instead. Gandalf could be an option; they're quite like each other and really have a lot in common. But if we're thinking of women, then, at least he would have had a human, cause it doesn't seem like he likes elves much. After all, he's an Aulë istar, sent to be with the humans.

Gandalfs sister seems reasonable! Some wizard-woman who is somewhat intelligent, but not necessarily very sympathetic; a bit powerhungry, perhaps, that would probably be to Sarumans liking. smilies/smile.gif Hmm... This was a bit off topic. I'm sorry. I'll shut up now! smilies/biggrin.gif

[The Archer]

The Ringwraiths, no doubt on that. They weren't living and they weren't dead, they were tormented forms of existance forever under to controle of an evil and wicked being.

The ringwraiths were evil at its best.

[AragornsHeir]

Gollum since 89' and forever on.

[O'Boile]

Not sure that Denethor counts as a bad guy...
I would say that my favorite bad guy would be the balrog, or perhapse one of the dragons.

[Iargwath]

Sauron...no actually Saruman is way more interesting. Kinda goodie to baddie smilies/tongue.gif

[TolkienGurl]

The Lord of Morgul. Definitely. smilies/evil.gif

[Faramir Took]

As completely un-original as it sounds, I would have to say Gollum. He's my favorite character anyways. I wanted to play him when I was in a stage production of the Hobbit (which was my favorite of the books), but I was the only one tall enough to play Gandalf, so the director gave me that part.

[avarrogion]

this is a tough one...errmm its gotta be either The Witch King of AngMar or Gollum...hmm let me think in awhile.
Ahhh right i will pick Gollum!!!
smilies/eek.gif smilies/rolleyes.gif smilies/eek.gif smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Ringannunwen]

gollum.

fish, nice fish. my precious. no, no precious, bad hobbits, gone and left us, yes, taken precious. fish, good fish, make us strong, let us throtle them if we gets the chances to! bad hobbits, they will give precoius to men! bad men . . . gollum

[Demloth of Dol Amroth]

sauron. coolest servants, the nazgul (second favorite bad guys-would've been one if it weren't for the whole ring-dependency/ultimate failure thing). i laugh at morgoth. balrogs-firey funny-looking ninnies who can't tell that an istari slamming down a staff isn't doing so just to make a loud noise. oh yeah, I REALLY REALLY LIKE sauron's mace from the movie-it would've done better, though, in the hands of the last alliance, sending orcs to the hall of mandos, or wherever dead orcs go.

[TolkienGurl]

Well, a lot of people certainly like Gollum around here! I don't! smilies/wink.gif

[Sapphire_Flame]

Oh, too many choices!!!!!!! I love the Bad Guys (not to sound messed up or anything smilies/evil.gif ) but they seem much more complex and (in all honesty) are cooler characters. But, over all I'd have to say my fave bad guy is Sauron; I mean come on, that Eye is too cool not to love!! My next favorite would prob'ly be Shelob, then The One Ring (yes, it is a character), and then...Gollum, just for the whole split personality dealie (yesss, my preciouss...) smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/evil.gif smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/evil.gif
I FORGOT THE NAZGUL!!!!!!!!!!!!! smilies/eek.gif Dude, they sooooooo kick butt, especially in Return of the King. smilies/evil.gif I wanna be a Nazgul!!! smilies/frown.gif ::starts crying hysterically::

[ October 25, 2002: Message edited by: Sapphire_Flame ]

[Saurreg]

Gothmog. He partaked in the whacking of Feanor, cleaved Fingon and perished with Ecthelion of the waterhole.

Give that dude a tiger! smilies/biggrin.gif

[Meela]

sauron


smilies/smile.gif

i rock at being evil

[Alassë Estel]

Old-Man Willow!

'Tis nothing but sheer horror I feel when reading that chapter:eek:...

Though I still love and admire willow-trees, I can never see them in the same light.

[Galadriel55]

Of late, one of my favourites has been Grima. Resourceful schemer in Rohan, pitiful underling in the Shire. I find his character in the Shire particularly interesting.

[Snowdog]

Old-Man Willow!

'Tis nothing but sheer horror I feel when reading that chapter:eek:...

Though I still love and admire willow-trees, I can never see them in the same light.

I always saw Old Man Willow more as a grumpy old treeish ent than a 'bad guy'.

My fav baddie is the Witch King of Angmar.

[Formendacil]

In terms of satisfyingly creepy evil, I'm going to have to go with the Barrow-wight (no, no, not the High Admin!).

[Morthoron]

I'll have to go with my favorite Moriquendi menace, Eöl. Who else gets the nom de guerre "Dark Elf" (capitalized and singular)? More malovelent and unlike any other Elf in the legendarium, Eöl was both an abductor and murderer, yet accomplished in both the dark arts (weaving webs of deceit to ensnare Aredhel Ar-Feiniel in the woods of Nan Elmoth), and an accomplished smith (forging the enchanted swords Anglachel and Anguirel, and fashioning armor from the meltal Galvorn) -- a wholly despicable yet fascinating character, more so than his son Maeglin, who was cowardly and a traitor.

[Lord Denethor]

Hi fellow Tolkien lovers,
Saruman is my favorite "bad guy" and, ultimately, he is one of my top favorite characters of all time in The Lord of the Rings. I collect statues and figures of Mr. Many Colors. The only other character I collect so feverishly is Frodo. I'd collect my Barrow-Downs namesake, the misunderstood-by-the-general-populace Denethor (not a bad guy), but not Sideshow, nor Weta, nor Prime1, have paid any heed to the Lord of Gondor. :confused:

[Mithadan]

Welcome to the Barrow-Downs, Lord Denethor!

I am surprised that your namesake has been ignored by the major designers of figurines. Do you attribute this to the manner that Denethor was presented in the movies as contrasted to how he was presented in the books?

[Lord Denethor]

Welcome to the Barrow-Downs, Lord Denethor!

I am surprised that your namesake has been ignored by the major designers of figurines. Do you attribute this to the manner that Denethor was presented in the movies as contrasted to how he was presented in the books?

Thank you! I used to be active here around 2006 or so. I rediscovered this site and figured a new start would be nice.

I do think Denethor’s been ignored because of PJ’s depiction of him in the films, yes. I don’t blame John Noble at all, I think he was great as the Lord of Gondor. But PJ and co. disregarded almost all of the good descriptors of Denethor that Tolkien wrote, both in the book and letters, such as the noble personality, and the fact that Denethor was stronger in mind than Boromir and more akin to Faramir. The movies rendered Denethor into a meme with the tomato-eating, degraded his character by betraying his noble, strong personality in favor of a weak-willed suicidal maniac. His suicide fell flat on screen, it’s supposed to be a very sad fate for such a man. But the general audience never picked up on that because of how he was portrayed on film. Alas.

[Mithadan]

Agreed. As portrayed in the books, Denethor was wise, dedicated and focused upon his obligations to Gondor, if perhaps not to the crown, which at that point was theoretical at best. Some say he fell, influenced by Sauron. In my view, he was broken by the weight of the times and his duties, which, based upon what he saw in the palantir, were hopeless.

The movies, unfortunately, portray him as petty, cowardly and self-centered, bordering upon evil. I suppose that the movie Denethor was not a good candidate for a WETA figurine.

[Snowdog]

Is it wrong to say 'Peter Jackson' is the ultimate bad guy?

Lord Denethor, along with Faramir and Aragorn, were some of the many atrocities PJ did to characters in Lord of the Rings. I respected Lord Denethor in the books. He was a strong Dunedain man who was worn down primarily by wrestling with Sauron through the palantir, but also the death of his wife. The weight that finally broke him was the death of Boromir, and that allowed his mind to be overrun by Sauron after that.

I can't stand watching those movies anymore. The only love I have for them is because of their making, I met my wife and soulmate.

Ok... bad guys ... along with the witch-king I mentioned earlier, another favorite 'bad guy' for me in the books was Grima Wormtongue. Now the whole Saruman/Theoden bewitching scene I pictured in my head from reading the books, and what I hold to is much different that how PJ portrayed it. Saruman didn't directly 'possess' Theoden from Isengard, but used Grima as his extended vassal embedded in Meduseld as Theoden's trusted advisor. Saruman gave Grima the power to enchant Theoden with his smooth-talking slick tongue that slyly let his believable, but deceiving words into Theoden's head, wearing him down over the years. It was more subtle than the outright Saruman possession of Theoden that PJ gave us. Grima was wonderfully portrayed by Brad Dourif in the movie, but it was sad that his excellent portrayal and performance was wasted by the crappy screenplay.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Tolkien's dragons are some of his best villains. Smaug, Glaurung and Chrysophylax are all deliciously wicked in their own ways.

[Bêthberry]

If we move out of book territory into other media, I nominate Frank Frazetta for his gross depictions of Eowyn not dressed in disguise as a man that moved the fantasy way outside Tolkien territory. ;)