WOuld you kill gollum

[midgetman]

If this has been asked already, sorry! I didn't feel like looking at every single thread before posting this. But would you kill gollum if you could. Assuming you did not know what role he would play in the future?

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

There are a lot of threads here about gollum, and you might find them interesting. No, I would not kill gollum.

[-Imrahil-]

This belongs in Novices. But to answer your question no I would not kill Gollum.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Midgetman,

You don't have to search every thread. Just look at the top of this page on the right side where it says "search". Click on search and it will take you to a page where you can type in your terms and hunt through a list that gives thread names. That way, you can see if there are obvious matches.

If something matches, you are welcome to bring the old thread up and post on that.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[Diamond18]

It depends on the circumstances. If it was after he betrayed me or my best friend, yes. If he attacked me, yes. But if I met him on the road, or if like Bilbo I had him totally at my mercy, then no, I would not kill him. Like Meela said, he's too cute. smilies/wink.gif

[Rose Cotton]

No.
I wouldn't kill anything unless it was out of self defence or it was for a greater good.
I don't think I would have even killed him when he betrayed Frodo and Sam becauseI've learned that revenge should be left for God to deal with.

Besides I like Gollum

[ December 08, 2002: Message edited by: Rose Cotton ]

[Faye Took]

No I wouldn't kill Gollum. I wouldn't kill anything! I believe in Karma too much.

[Cherie Centaur]

I agree with you people(except for that cute thing *shudders*), I only kill in self defense.

[dragoneyes]

I don't like dead things, can't even touch a dead fly without flinching, let alone a dead hobbit *shivers* nope, don't like dead things, unless it's on my dinner plate smilies/evil.gif

[HammerTime]

I probably would want to kill Gollum, if I knew what he was like, but like dragoneyes I don't like dead things, so I probably couldn't. And then of course he's just so cute! smilies/wink.gif

[Inderjit Sanghera]

No! Gollum kicks *** . I would kill Sam though. *Shakes fist* I hate him so much.

[Rose Cotton]

I did say I'd kill if it was for the greater good.

[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

I can't stand Sam. He was nice as a hobbit in the shire, but he had no right to treat gollum like he did. I liked him except for the way he treated gollum. Not everybody loves Sam. I don't think that I would kill Sam, like Inderjit said he would. I'd definately give Sam a good licking (that means @sskicking in case you didn't know). It does hurt maybe for you to hear that people want to kill Sam or that people hate Sam, but I think Inderjit was only joking when he said he'd kill Sam (or he was serious, I don't know). It also hurts to hear that people would kill gollum, and especially out of hatred. Maybe I'd kill him if it was necessary in self-defense or if it was the only way to allow the ring to be destroyed. You said that you would kill gollum only for the greater good, which is the only reason someone should have for killing anyone, gollum and Sam included. But don't be so quick to judge. "Judge not lest ye be judged." Well there you have it.

[ December 09, 2002: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]

[Aragorn_The_King]

I Aragorn king of Middle Earth stand by, protecting Sam Gamgee with my life. The best hobbit ever made is my friend and al of His friends too. smilies/mad.gif

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Anyways, you said he was the best Hobbit ever made...explain please. I mean we're all entitled to our opinions, but show me your back up and why you think that.

[ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

I think that Sam is an excellent Hobbit. Frodo wouldn't have gotten far without him. If Sam hadn't taken the ring when Frodo was presumed dead then the orcs would've taken it when they took Frodo's body. Sam killed Shelob. He stayed with Frodo till the end. Perhaps he was a little harsh on Gollum, but Gollum did end up betraying them after all.
I, myself, would've listened to Gandalf's words, like Frodo, most likely. Plus, I don't think I'd be able to take the life of a wretched creature.

[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]

[Diamond18]

Oh come now, come now. Sam was a wonderful lad with a fiery spirit hidden beneath all those hobbity layers. When push came to shove he always won. So I'd think twice before attacking him. Gollum always attacked from behind. That's how cowards play their game. But I still wouldn't kill him unless I had to.

[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Sorry, people - wrong forum for roleplaying! This forum is for discussion; if you're looking for action, try joining one of our RPGs. I am editing the above posts to remove all references to killing/fighting fellow forum members.

[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Gollum attacked from behind not because he was a coward, but because he was weaker. It wasn't cowardly but smart and cunning. He was a very sneaky creature. Despite all that torment in his mind from the ring he could still be crafty and cunning like a fox (although he looks more like a weasel). Or maybe it was the ring's influence on him. Anyways, if he had attacked straighton, then it would be useless, and he even might suffer injuries. He was smart, not cowardly, there's a difference between the two.

[Corky]

I luv Sam! He's so loyal. Frodo wouldn't have lasted w/out him! Gollum is cool...I a weird kinda way *lol* You know what I mean?

[Sasha]

I dun tink i would kill him. He's such a sad lil thing smilies/frown.gif And he's like a puppy dog, i would gladly keep him as a pet smilies/smile.gif

[Frodess]

You can't kill Gollum. He's so sad. I think it would probably be an act of kindness to kill him, because life isn't really working out for him. smilies/confused.gif But I couldn't do it. He makes me cry. All that has happened is not his fault!

[dragoneyes]

All that has happened is not his fault!

You have to admit though, some of it was his fault. I don't like gollum, nomatter what anyone says, he's not cute or nice or lovely, but as I said earlier, I don't like dead things and killing is rather harsh.

Gollum attacked from behind not because he was a coward, but because he was weaker

He wasn't that much weaker, he may have believed he was weaker (though I personnaly think he was being sneaky) but he wasn't actually weaker enough to warrant attaking from behind.

[Frodess]

What I meant was that what happened to him was not his fault. I do not condone his attempted killing of Bilbo and such, but I still feel bad for him. Even after Shelob.

[Malamute]

It's hard to foresay what my actions would have been against Gollum, but pity as its been stated would prolly be my reaction once sustaining an upper hand to his sneak attacks.

Sam is like one of the best and bravest Hobbits around. Always first to defend,loyalty without hesitation, strength of will, and the magic of ignorance all make samwise an intriguing and sustained prescence throught the LotR's trilogy. It's too bad people havent delved into defining the samwise character to themselves in a proper perspective. smilies/smile.gif

[Iarwain]

I have to post immediately, so please forgive any repeats.

It makes me sad to think that someone would consider such a thing. smilies/frown.gif Gollum is a truly wretched creature, but had he not accomplished the quest for Frodo, he would have had hope for recovery. The execution of such a pitiful person as Gollum would be (by my standards) outright murder. Perhaps he is rotten to the core, but that does not change his origin. Though his corruption originated in his own greedy and cruel behaviou, the ring both inspired these feelings and kept them going for the durration of Gollum's existence. I'd like you all to think back to the stairs of Cirith Ungol, (just about the most touching point in the book) Gollum was an old tired hobbit once more, he had realized himself. Had only Sam been compassionate from the beginning, who knows what would have come of Gollum? The ring drove him, called him for thousands of miles and hundreds of years, leaving him with nothing but his own bare bones. There are many arguments against what I have just said, and many of them make good sense, but poor Gollum deserved forgiveness, and though he started the path to his own corruption, I believe that in and near the end, the choice was no longer his.

Sobbing Quietly,
Iarwain

[Legolas'Beloved]

I would not have killed him but I would have been a little suspicious of him like Sam was.

[MYyyPreciousSS]

I just have to say that I agree with all that Iarwain has said. I would say the same, but since she has already, I will second it.
Also, even though I was also quite angry with Sam always putting Gollum down, I still like him. He may be my least favorite hobbit, but he is still very brave and very helpful.

Well, as you can probably tell by my name, I am a fan of Gollum, and to answer the question, No I would not kill Gollum. In fact, I cried when he, well, came to his fate.

[ January 11, 2003: Message edited by: MYyyPreciousSS ]

[Eglaladiel]

No way!! isnt he the reason why the ring was destroid? (im still in after-shock at this question)
yah.anyways.....wasnt this done already?

[Tar-Palantir]

Mr. Gollum has a nasty habit of surviving, and probably would prove tough to kill. I was surprised when he let himself be cornered by Faramir's bowmen, very unlike his normal behavior. Also, his 'origin' was that of a nasty hobbit, he was never a good samaritan in any sense of the word, and any leniency was undeserved unless it was on the basis of pity and basic decency. Saruman used to be good (unlike Gollum), but I doubt many on this board would show him the leniency that Gandalf or Frodo did. Why is that?

Oh, and if someone bit MY finger off, well... they better hope we're nowhere near the Cracks of Doom... smilies/evil.gif

[Luinoth,Heir_of_Rohan]

I'd just kill him when I had the chance................ I dun care if he's gonna help me. I prefer to work alone, not let some skinny under-fed 500-year old hobbit guide me where I need to go.

So if you didn't get my answer from that, then you can get it from this:

I WOULD DEFINATLY KILL GOLLUM!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gorwingel]

This would be a hard question for me, to kill or not to kill. Yes, Gollum is a mean creature that probably deserves death sometimes, and other times does not. Yes, I would probably kill him. Sam and Frodo would have eventually made it to Mordor without him (it may have took a long time though).

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

He wasn't that much weaker, he may have believed he was weaker (though I personnaly think he was being sneaky) but he wasn't actually weaker enough to warrant attaking from behind.

He may have had a good chance but my point was that Gollum would not take any unnecessary risks. he was never a good samaritan in any sense of the word
and Saruman used to be good (unlike Gollum)

Ok, I'm getting pretty tired of hearing people say this about Gollum. You can't say that because you don't know if that's true. In "The Hobbit", it said that Gollum used to teach his grandmother to suck eggs. Right there he's being a good samaritan in a sense and he is helping someone, and isn't that good? So please don't say stuff like that if you can't back it up.

[Tar-Palantir]

Ok, I'm getting pretty tired of hearing people say this about Gollum. You can't say that because you don't know if that's true. In "The Hobbit", it said that Gollum used to teach his grandmother to suck eggs. Right there he's being a good samaritan in a sense and he is helping someone, and isn't that good?

Well, I can't help it if that is the feeling I get from reading about him. Granted, I didn't recall the 'eggs' line, and that does sound like a decent act, but dollars to donuts he would have strangled her for a gold ring.

So please don't say stuff like that if you can't back it up.

Besides the killing of Deagol (pre-ring, of course) there are three key lines from FotR:
"..and he used it (the Ring) to find out secrets, and he put his knowledge to crooked and malicious uses. He became sharp-eyed and keen-eared for all that was hurtful. The ring had given him power according to his stature."
That makes it pretty clear to me. And even the great Gandalf himself says with regards to Gollum deserving death: "Deserves it! I daresay he does" Of course his stance favors pity and mercy "...not to strike without need." but he quite clearly feels that Gollum deserves death, and as far as I know there are none more knowledgeable in Smeagol-lore. smilies/smile.gif

[Iarwain]

I think you misunderstand Gandalf there. I take him to mean that Gollum deserves death through his acts. And, all of his seriously indecent acts occured after his intruduction to the ring, (thats including the Deagol incident). Plus, nobody's perfect no matter how hard they try, everyone has a weakness. It just seems that as the ring has "the power to corrupt" (Gandalf) it seeks to undo the good of the persons who posses it.

Thus, Again I will say that I believe the ring was taking advantage of poor gollum, and it manipulated his curiousity to fit its own desires, causing Gollum's ultimate corruption and love/hate of the ring.

Iarwain

[Luinoth,Heir_of_Rohan]

is teaching your grandmother to suck eggs even a good deed? I really don't think that counts.

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

I didn't recall the 'eggs' line

It's in the cahpter "Riddles in the Dark", where the pareagraph starts out as "But suddenly Gollum remembered..." an the answer to the riddle is eggs.

but dollars to donuts

I have no clue what that means he would have strangled her for a gold ring

I can see that happening , smilies/frown.gif as much as I love Gollum. And about the rest, I'm talking about before the ring entered his life.

And, I agree with Iarwain.

is teaching your grandmother to suck eggs even a good deed? I really don't think that counts.

What are you talking about? Why doesn't it count. It does count. The fact of the matter is that Gollum wasn't wholly evil before the ring. If he was, then he would never had helped anyone. And why is teaching your grandmother to suck eggs not a good thing? Gollum went out of his way to help someone, and that is good!

[Luinoth,Heir_of_Rohan]

Yus, he wasn't evil before he got the ring. I know that. But that doesn't change the fact that he's evil now and we have a right to kill him cause he's evil. I still don't credit teaching your grandmother to suck eggs a good deed. I mean, what if somebody sucked and egg's yolk out and then spat it at you(lol). That would NOT be a good deed.

[dragoneyes]

Just need to clear this up so that I may have my own view on this conversation, but what do you mean by 'sucking eggs'?

[Luinoth,Heir_of_Rohan]

basically to suck the insides out of eggs

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Ok, here's where I think we differ. For you, if someone is evil, he/she doesn't deserve life so you are justified if you kill it. Am I right? Well, for me, if someone is evil, then that person still has a right to live. I wouldn't kill gollum, and one huge reason is because he never did anything to me. And if you think he is evil now, I might even have to disagree on that. It wasn't like he really was evil, it was more wretched and loathesome. And the more I think about this quote, the less it makes sense 'What a pity Bilbo did not stab the vile creature, when he had a chance!'
'Pity? It was pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need.'
'I do not feel any pity for Gollum. He deserves death.'
'...Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice...'

That was the conversation between Frodo and Gandalf. Ok, first, why does Gollum deserve to die (why does Frodo think so, not yourself)? I don't think he did. Only for killing Deagol, but that does not really concern Frodo anyways. And if Bilbo did kill Gollum, how would that be justified. If you say because of Deagol, then I say nay. I think having the ring for as long as he did is enough punishment, and possibly even too much. Gollum became twisted and broken because of the ring. He was lonely, and carried far beyond his lifetime, weakened by it, and having his mind overrun by it. He was tortured by Sauron. He evn died wretched, so isn't that the final part of justice served to him? Anyways, he also helped out others. What about Frodo and Sam. Do you really think they would have gotten anywhere near that far if Gollum did not help them. Gollum tried to be good. He helped sam get the rabbits. So, I really don't think he deserved death.

[ January 12, 2003: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

[Tar-Palantir]

Hey Grounds Keeper Willie, good for calling me out on my comment. Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry for Gollum, for nobody deserves to become what the Ring molded him into. I was very sad when he died and up till then kept hoping for rehabilitation. But I don't feel like he was a nice hobbit kid, deserving some special forgiveness because he used to be good before all this, I suppose that is my only point. No, Gollum wasn't wholly evil, like you say. But I say he wasn't a good kid. And with the sole exception of his good deed with the eggs I can't find any other example of it. Hence my hastiness in proclaiming him "not a good samaritan in any sense of the word." Thank you for making me do more thinking/reading on it, my view has shifted 'slightly'. smilies/smile.gif But you can't make me LOVE him, lol! You're all tricksy, the lot of you!

*Tar-Palintir runs screaming from the room before the Smeagol-lovers corrupt his proper sensibilities any further*


By the way "dollars to donuts" is a phrase that basically means I would bet my dollars (more valuable) against your donuts (less valuable), meaning that I feel pretty secure in the bet. Make sense?

[ January 12, 2003: Message edited by: Tar-Palantir ]

[Tar-Palantir]

Hehe, you posted while I was typing. To answer your question specifically re:Frodo, Frodo made those comments directly after Gandalf told him the entire story, so he knew all the details. But I think the trigger was when Gandalf mentioned that Gollum had given Sauron the name of 'Hobbits' and 'Shire' and 'Baggins'. Also Frodo says that he is afraid and frightened. That state of mind seems to always aid in the speaking of rash statements. And when Frodo does eventually see him, he takes pity just like Gandalf said he would. Good for Frodo.

[willowkeyjey]

hmmmmmm.... well would i Kill Gullum?
no I like him to much to kill him I pitty him and he is the bom in the movie. Poor little Gullum.*sniff* :'( smilies/frown.gif

[LadyElbereth]

I know that I would want to kill him, but I wouldn't unless he attacked or betrayed me.
I would definitly NOT feel comfortable if he hung around me and I had to put total trust in him.

[Malamute]

Alright,....

Gollum for 500 years spent his time killing "goblins" in the caves as they wandered off. smilies/smile.gif

Thats alot more time than any of the hobbits,aragorn,borimir or most ever spent killing goblinseses.... smilies/rolleyes.gif

Anyhow, its just another way to look at what gollum was doing all those years besides fighting and tormenting with the ring and the murder of deagol.

500 years of self imprisonment is quite the sentence for his crime. I see it as Smeagol finally being forgiven for his 'crimes' against humanity and being allowed to finally die and go where his tormented spirit deserves to reside. smilies/smile.gif

Thats all.....

[Jian]

i think giving Gollum\Smiegel a chance to redeem himself is wise of Frodo. everyone, no matter how bad their past should be given a second chance. w\o second chances mankind would destoy one another for even the smallest things. treat others as you'd want to be treated. would you want to be killed for going crazy, due to an evil cause, though you were trying to be good as well. i think Smiegel has good intentions but first he must defeat the evilness in him, which is Gollum.