gollum:good or evil

[arwentinuviel]

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<FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>what's your opinion on gollum

<FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Results (total votes = 27):<table bgcolor=#FFFFFF border=0 cellpadding=3 cellspacing=0 width="75%"> <tbody> <tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#E0E0E0><TD NOWRAP> <FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>he was a conniving theiving creature&nbsp</td> <td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>2&nbsp;/&nbsp;7.4%&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/bar.gif width=22 height=10 hspace=3>&nbsp;</td></tr> <tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#E0E0E0><TD NOWRAP> <FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>he was pittiable and deserved to die&nbsp</td> <td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>3&nbsp;/&nbsp;11.1%&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/bar.gif width=33 height=10 hspace=3>&nbsp;</td></tr> <tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#E0E0E0><TD NOWRAP> <FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>he was neither of the two&nbsp</td> <td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>22&nbsp;/&nbsp;81.5%&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/bar.gif width=244 height=10 hspace=3>&nbsp;</td></tr> <tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr></tbody> </table>

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[HerenIstarion]

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neither

I daresay Gollum is one of the most tragic figures in the whole trilogy. You can't apply to him simple definitions of the kind evil/not evil, he's too complex for that. He almost repented in the end, after qui a long period he's figthing with himself. Remeber slinker/stinker dialogue?

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[arwentinuviel]

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neither

i agree with you herenistarion.
gollum was a very complex character and it is hard to define his personality in a line or two.there were times when i absolutely loathed him,but there were also times when i pitied him
yes i remember sliner/stinker dialogue.

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[Lady Eowyn]

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Re: neither

I agree with both of you, and everything you said
I always felt sorry for the poor gollum.



And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom</p>

[the youngest Rose]

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neither

Did Gollum not deserve what he got? Yes, living for an eon or three with the regret and guilt would be harsh punishment, but pity is what he seemed wanted, or at least look for.

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[the Lorien wanderer]

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Re: neither

There is a very detailed arguement on this mainly involving Zoe and enep. You could go back to that topic and have a look. What was the name of that thread again?

Humour is emotional chaos remembered in moments of tranquility.</p>

[Orald]

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Re: neither

evil, not exactly. good, definately not. going from what he was like in the beginning, i would say he was just a little ornery but nothing to bad.

Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Eä, and evil be good to have been.</p>

[Samwise of the shire]

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Pittiable and deserved to die

Even though I dont pity Gollum THAT much I think that pittiable fits him pretty close.You cant say that he was'nt pittiable because...everyone...pitied...him.
Gollum was complex so he cant be pittiable? Okey Dokey but I'd like to point something out the pittiable part of Gollum was part of his complexity as was his hatred of Sam,Aragron and the elves,as a fact all the characters were complex and their characteristics were part of their complexity.
I cant help hating Gollum,but I cant help pittying him and the two combined makes the experience of reading LOTR more interesting,same with the other characters, their combined bravery,obedience and honesty makes LOTR worth reading.
Sam

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[Veasorel]

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Re: gollum:good or evil

Gollum was evil however the part of him which still was Smegol was not evil. The ring held hold of him and as a result his evilness was not his faul but the ring wishing to rreturn to mordor. The evil in the ring courupted him and held part of him in his power. However the good in him wanted to take controll but could not do so and as a result of his evilness caused by the ring it still led to the distruction of the ring so evil or not he still in a way worked for good in the end dispite his evilness.

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[Imbear Nolwehin]

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Evil

Aiya!

Sméagol, in my opinion, is one of the darkest figures in The Lord of the Rings. It is entirely unfair to excuse him because of the Ring's power. It did not make him; he chose it, and it perverted him.
The worst of Sméagol's deeds come second-hand, yet are perhaps more horrible because of the &quot;mythic&quot; quality of their transmission. The deeds I refer to are done in the Woodsmen's haunt, where some blood-drinking &quot;ghost&quot; appears and steals babies from their cradles. I tend to forget about this period in Sméagol's life, but it is most telling. He is no fanciful sprite or kobold souring milk or performing some other petty mischief. He is a demon, a Rumpelstiltskin, a cannibal, an evil thing that none can escape wholly.

However, I also believe that he is purged by the Fire, and thus redeemed. Even the Wise cannot see all ends.


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[enep]

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Re: Evil

MY TOPIC!

It's called: To Stir Things Up A Little: Gollum's Motives

or something, in about the 7th page (?) in the Books forum.

At least someone remembered <img src=wink.gif ALT=";)">

*edit: Gollum's Purpose/Motives (To Stir Things Up) can be found http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000468 HERE</a>

- enep</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000041>enep</A> at: 6/20/01 3:38:34 am

[Glorifindel]

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Re: Evil

In my opinion Smeagol was a very dark character, but only due to the evil power of the Ring. He only became evil after he first saw the Ring. At that moment he became corrupted because he was not strong enough to resist the power of the Ring. The motive behind his mischief was getting back the Ring,everything he did was to regain posession of the Ring.

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[Theodred21]

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Re: Evil

Gollum looked bad on the outside, but deep down, he was still good.

...he heard Theodred's great voice cry "To me, Eorlingas!"</p>

[Samwise of the shire]

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Nothing up here

Imbear, Did'nt Gandalf say in A shadow of the past that the Ring chose who would bear it?Gollum did not choose the Ring,it chose him and corrupted him from the very beggining like Glorfindel said(only mischief is not a word I would use in describing Gollums past behaviours).
Theodred Gollum did'nt have any good in him,remember he had two personalities. Gollum was the evil counterpart of Smeagol. Thats just how I look at it.
Sam

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons. For you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.</p>

[Count Num Num]

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Re: Nothing up here

Saying that Gollum is a tragic figure, a victim of the ring's power is like saying an axe murderer is blameless because his momma spanked him too much. That's the problem with society today. Nobody takes responsibility. Gollum should be sent with all haste to the nearest penal facility. And bathed of course.

</p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

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Re: Nothing up here

I agreed. I, too, seldom feel anything but contempt for the wicked Gollum, with only a short-lived, occasional thought of pity when he almost realizes how bad he really is.

Bathing would probably be a good start if someone were to try to rehabilitate the wretch. Good idea!

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
<font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[SteadfastSam]

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Gollum

Gollum was indeed as pitiful wretch. I wish he could have been redeemed, but I not sad that at least he helped destroy the Ring, in his own way.

"Good Morning!" said the dragon. "You seem surprised."
"Good Morning! said Farmer Giles. "I am that!"
Farmer Giles of Ham </p>

[Bonzai]

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Re: Gollum

How can you all be so cruel! Gollum was the victim here. Early on in his life he was lead astray down the wrong path. The ring was a drug to him. It willed him to do things and he did them. And soon like all drugs, the ring began to hurt Gollum:

Quote: My birthday-present! It came to me on my birthday, my precious,&quot; So he had always said to himself. ... Gollum used to wear it at first, till it tired him; and then he kept it in a pouch nest his skin, till it galled him; and now usually he hid it in a hole in the rock on the island, and was always going back to look at it.

When Gollum and the ring are separated he exhibits the behavior that would fit an addict going through withdrawl.

Example: He goes out into the sunlight and the moonlight(which he hated) in search of the ring.

Finally, when he meets up with Frodo and Frodo shows him compassion, Gollum starts to act nice. Frodo's compassion helped Gollum get out from the spell of the ring. This lasted for all of two seconds, because the REAL bad guy in the story, Samwise, would always push Gollum. That created the slinker/stinker characters.

Gollum did do some bad things, mind you. But he was not a bully, like Sam was. Who would you rather root for, an addict that finally got over the drugs spell, or the bully who kept pestering the addict?

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[The X Phial]

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Re: Gollum

That's truly funny, Bonzai. Good parallel actually, though I would say Sam is more on the Tough Love camp than a bully <img src=wink.gif ALT=";)">

-*-The X Phial-*- "Yet more fair is the living land of Lorien, and the Lady Galadriel is above all the jewels that lie beneath the earth!"</p>

[Ring Lord Rules]

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Re: Gollum

What this poll is missing is a fourth choice which is BOTH... He was an evil creature committing much evil, pain and death. However he was also a pitiful and wretched creature deserving of our compassion... not our judgement. In the books Gandalf, ever the wise one, understood this.

When others wanted to take the knife to Gollum, he stayed their hand... Even the wise cannot see all ends, even Gollum has his part to play...

Gollum was wicked no doubt, but also a being to be pitied...


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000174>Ring Lord Rules</A> at: 7/19/01 1:46:42 pm

[Samwise of the shire]

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Re: Gollum

Frankly I'm glad that Gollum fell in the cracks of doom,at least it destroyed the flippin ring which was MUCH more evil then he was.In fact I pity all people who have an obbsesion to drugs or alcohol or anything bad,it was their own stupid fault that they took it not anyone elses.Now Gollum did'nt HAVE to take the Ring it did'nt sit up and say&quot;take me kill him or else I'll tell Sauron on you&quot;.Gollum chose the Ring as well as it chose him.My point of veiw

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons. For you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.</p>

[Fedaeglin]

Gollum used to be a hobbit. He was, however, not the nicest hobbit. He was a suffering creature that did not have the willpower to do anything without the ring. smilies/frown.gif

[Tarien Ithil]

I think Gollum was pitable, but I don't think he deserved to die. After all, it was the Ring who drove him into doing such evil deeds.
It did corrupt him and so I don't think he was to blame.
And he did have a split personality (half good, half evil , as described in the book).