If you were an elf, would you go to the Grey Havens or stay in Middle-earth...

[willowkeyjey]

...after the War of the Ring? To go or to stay, I would be torn.*frown* aahhhh but which one?? *Gasp..* The world may never know. smilies/redface.gif smilies/eek.gif smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/tongue.gif

(Title edited for readable spelling)

[ January 17, 2003: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]

[Merri]

I think you should know that on this forum, we use intelligible English, not chat abbreviations.

[Iarwain]

I must agree Merri, i could barely read that gibberish. smilies/biggrin.gif

I would most definately go. Why stay in a place like Middle-Earth when paradise awaits? Unless my best friend was a mortal, I would be out of there in a flash!

[Artalwen]

Ahh...yes I think I would go to Gray heavens....I think it would be a beautiful place to go for the rest of life.

[maiden of the Shire]

I think I'd have to stay...as long as the Shire was in one beautiful piece!

[Liriodendron]

Go, go go! after a couple thousand years in middle earth, I'd be ready for something "new" and fresh! smilies/smile.gif (not to mention perfect!)

[ January 12, 2003: Message edited by: Liriodendron ]

[Mattius]

a better idea would be to go EAST and travel all around the globe and get to the Valinor THAT way. Sweeet!

[Aelfwine]

Maybe you could read this or some of the other threads carefully which do use correct English, before you compose your topics:

Announcement: New BarrowDowns Policies (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001174)

Aelfwine

[Gorwingel]

Even though I could barely understand the topic of this thread, I would say I don't know. Because when I read the books I would always say to myself "why are all the elves leaving, why can't they just stay". But if I was an elf, would I go? I would have to say that I would probably go eventually, but I would stay in Middle Earth for a very long time.

[InklingElf]

please re-phrase your question so that I may better understand what you are asking...

[Iarwain]

Yes, just a suggestion, Willowkeyjey, but I think you would get more responses if you changed the name of this thread.

[Meela]

id go to the grey havens if there was nothing happening in middle earth. i would never leave during the war of the ring and miss out on all the action

[Eldawen of Lorien]

I would go to Valinor because Middle-Earth would become sort of old and dreary and I would be sad because everything in Middle-Earth dies and being an elf who lives forever that would make me sad.

[Carrûn]

Since it's after the War of the Ring and all of the Elves & their creations are sort of "fading away" for lack of a better term I think I would take the grey ships. If the War was still going on I might stay.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Valinor, definetly. Fading isn't exactly a mouthwatering prospect, but those Elven ladies are. smilies/wink.gif

[Arwen Evenstar the Fair]

Well, my character would stay in Middle Earth (or should I say does smilies/biggrin.gif ) but as for me I would go to the West after the War of the Ring, but not right away... I would probably wait a few hundred years or so. smilies/smile.gif

[Estelyn Telcontar]

http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/skwerlz02.jpg
Thread title edited for readability...

[Cherie Centaur]

The title is a little crowded. Anyway, I would probably leave, but not before Legolas and Gimli leave, Ithilien withers, and Faramir dies smilies/frown.gif

[Noldorin King]

There's no choice for the Eldar but to depart because over time they would weary of the Mortal Lands and set sail abroad

[fairykisses]

Valinor sounds alot better than Middle-Earth. Anyways, Frodo is there.... smilies/wink.gif

[Failivrin]

i would go to the grey havens, but after aragorn died.

[Lord of Angmar]

As for myself, I would probably linger in Middle Earth, wandering the many realms and lands under the watch of King Elessar. After the Great King (so he was called in the first (and only) chapter of Tolkien's The New Shadow) died, I would take whatever ship would bear me to the Undying Lands. I would be in no hurry to depart to a place where I would spend the rest of my eternal life immediately after the War of the Ring.

[Finwe]

I think I would probably linger in Middle-earth until all that I had known had perished. It has to do with my personality. I have never been one to accept my fate, or meekly follow rules established by others. From the day that I was born, I have been a questioner, an arguer, and a fighter, and I will remain that way until the day I die. I don't think that I would thrive in an environment such as Valinor, just because it is too peaceful. Granted, war and conflict are horrible, but in a strange way, I am called to them. I need excitement and change, just as the Noldor did in the First Age. I would probably wither away in Valinor, since I would probably have nothing to do.

It really depends on the person. We shouldn't be misled by the descriptions of Valinor as a wonderful paradise, because even though it is, nothing will change. It is kind of frozen in time, just as Lothlorien is, and the only thing on its people's minds is preservation, not action. So it's a matter of personal opinion, I guess.

[StarJewel]

I would probably go to Valinor, but not right away. Unless there was a lot happening on Middle Earth that I couldn't bear to miss, I would clear out for an eternity of bliss.

[Arwen1858]

I like what you said, Finwe.
I would stay in Middle Earth for thousands of years before going to Valinor. After Aragorn had died and all the other elves left. Of course, that would be after I travelled all of Middle Earth and met many people and done everything there is to do! Also, if like Arwen, I had a choice to go to the undying lands or stay and marry the mortal man that I loved and becoming mortal myself, I would definately follow in the footsteps of Luthien and Arwen!

[Airerûthiel]

I would eventually go to Valinor, but only after Aragorn had died and everything I knew was gone. That way I could travel around all of Middle-earth and meet lots of different people. I definitely wouldn't leave in the middle of the War of the Ring whilst all the action was going on, so I'd probably be part of the very last party of Elves that left Middle-earth.

[Arwen1858]

Airerûthiel, sounds like we have the same plans! We could travel together smilies/smile.gif BTW, I love your signature!
The thing about leaving Middle Earth is that once you go to Valinor, you can't go back. So I think it would definately be better to wait a long time before leaving!

[Finwe]

I think I would have to travel all around Middle-earth definitely before even thinking about traveling to Valinor. Middle-earth is such a beautiful place, and it would be a waste to not see all that there is to see in it, before leaving it forever.

[ElentariGreenleaf]

Before the war of the ring I would stay in middle earth to protect it from evil, but after the war, well, I'd be completely torn between staying and leaving! The havens would be peaceful, as woul Middle Earth, but some new evil might arise and need to be defeated!

[Iarhen]

I think I would follow Galadriel's advice. If we, as elves, stay here, we would be destined to forget and be forgotten and to be a primitive culture living in caves... This is the age of men. The time of the elves is over.

I would certainly dwell here in M.E. a while after Sauron fell, to admire the beauty of M.E. and its imperfection. Probably I would be around King Elessar's realm till he died, to write his amazing story and keep it in a book so no elf or man would ever forget his rise to Kingship and his part in the defeat of Sauron.

After Elessar died, I would go to the Grey Havens... probably doing with Mattius said... And I would take with me all the written memories of Elessar's kingship... And a tale of Arwen's last days for Elrond, Celebrian and Galadriel to hear...

And I would stick close to Olorin and Varda in Valinor... smilies/wink.gif

[Eruwen]

I would probably agree with most of the people who have already replied, but it would be hard to decide.

I think it would depend on how long I had lived in Middle Earth. If I had been there for thousands of years, chances are I would have already seen and explored all the places worth seeing and fought in all the battles worth fighting in, so I might want to go to the Grey Havens just to find more adventure in another world. I might even go before the War of the Ring was ended. Just depends on what my feelings were for the whole thing.

[Enif]

Well... I do have to consider the time I spent in Middle-earth, thouhg I think I would choose to stay, you know all that heaven thing must be quite boring, I'd rather go where the action is... smilies/wink.gif

[arianrod]

Leave Middle Earth? I don't think I'd have the heart to! No, I'd stay behind, at least for another Age or two, in the forests and fields of the lands I've grown to love. After that, who knows? I may choose to leave.

[QuickSlash]

If I'd already seen most of ME, and if I wasn't close to any mortals, I would've gone to Valinor. If I'd been alive long enough, I probably would've gone there and never gone to Middle Earth. I don't like things to ever change.

[Edit: Happy 200 posts for me. <3.]

[ September 28, 2003: Message edited by: QuickSlash ]

[Arothir]

Regrettably, I would have to go to Valinor. In the Silmarillion, Arothir king of Nargothrond was slain. So to Mandos and Valinor is where I'm going! Actually, I would go to Aman anyway.

[Elfchick7]

I would go to Valinor. Unless I loved someone who could not or would not go with me. I also might stay behind so that Arwen would not have to wander alone after Aragorn dies.

[kittygirl02]

I would stay ine Middle Earth. Techniclly, The west is America, so not the pilgrims, but the Elves landed in America.Cooollllllll....

[Eol Telemnar]

Why stay in a place like Middle-Earth when paradise awaits?

I would definitely go to the Grey-Havens

[Rindoien, elf of Lothlorien]

I would stay ine Middle Earth. Techniclly, The west is America, so not the pilgrims, but the Elves landed in America.Cooollllllll....

*giggles*

I think I would leave. If all of my kin were gone, what would be the point in staying? Besides, I'm uber curious to find out what the Grey Havens are like smilies/biggrin.gif

[dubleu]

you all speak of lingering till the last of this age is gone till you have done all their is to do and then you will leave and what will you do their ? you will sit and wander what if i had staid? what more could i have done ? when it comes to it the elvles decide because it is their choice to make , you cannot always leave and you cannot return this is why mortallity was a gift smilies/frown.gif smilies/smile.gif smilies/frown.gif is it paradise , really how, when you leave all that mortal beuty is, can the haven be paradise

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 11:42 PM December 13, 2003: Message edited by: dubleu ]

[The Saucepan Man]

Erm, the Grey Havens is in Middle-earth. smilies/rolleyes.gif

[dubleu]

Techniquely i suppose this is true however it is a "seperate land" and is their fore usually spoken of seperately

[Everdawn]

As 'separate' as The Shire perhaps? I think they speak of it as a place in Middle Earth

I would go to the Grey Havens to get to Valinori think it would be the most interesting place to live.

[dubleu]

When i say seperate i mean they take a boat tere smilies/smile.gif

[The Saucepan Man]

When i say seperate i mean they take a boat tere

No, they take a boat from there.

Grey Havens is a translation of the Sindarin name Mithlond, the Elven harbour and city that lay on the Mouth of the river Lhun, ie in Middle-earth. Cirdan the Shipwright was Lord of the Havens, and it was from here that Elves departing Middle-earth sailed west to Aman, the Undying Lands.

I trust that clears up this issue. smilies/rolleyes.gif smilies/wink.gif

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 6:59 PM December 14, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

[Shenaran]

Who ever said it is right Gray Havens is in Middle Earth....I sure they meant leave Middle Earth via Gray Havens...

I personally would stay for a while.

[lord_of_rohan2003]

If I were a elf I would go after a 1000 year tour of the regular lands..but other then that I would just stay.Theres always the Shire to visit,Rohan,Gpndor and othe cool plases to see and live in.

[Iris Alantiel]

I think it would ultimately depend on the circumstances - if I was Arwen or Luthien, I'd have done exactly what they did, sure. But if it was just up to me and not based on any other people's actions or circumstances, I think I would probably be on the ship to Valinor, because I would want to take the opportunity to see something new. (This of course assumes that I've already been in ME for a couple of thousand years and am pretty familiar with it.) But I think a part of my heart would always mourn and be sad for the beauty that I've left behind.

[Dragon Elf odin Ragnorock]

I would say I would want to go to the gray Hevens. I would love to spend eternety in paradice insted of a living heck

[rutslegolas]

if i were am elf from thranduil i would not leave middle earth

but just reside in the realm of king aragorn till the end of his days and then perhaps go to the grey heavens

[Eorl of Rohan]

Well... Sooner or later, all elves have to leave middle earth. There is no choice. The fourth age is the age of Men, and elves have no place - they must either go to Valinor or fade away and die - who would then go to the Halls of MAndos and then go to Valinor later on.

[Galadriel]

I'd probably tour Middle-earth for as long as Galadriel (from the time the Noldor returned), and then go to Valinor :p

[Galadriel55]

I would probably do the same as Legolas - stay for a while, until it's worth it. I feel sorry for people like Gimli.

[xMellrynxMaidenx]

I'd probably tour Middle-earth for as long as Galadriel (from the time the Noldor returned), and then go to Valinor :p

Hear, hear! :D

I would explore it until I have satisfied my curiosity, then I would sail to Valinor. But it's as someone stated previously, either way, all elves go to Valinor sooner or later. If not by sailing, they are reincarnated from the Halls of Mandos.

[Elmo]

If you are of the Umanyar, you are not reincarnated. Once you die you stay permenantly in the Halls of Mandos. I think that's mentioned in Morgoth's Ring. It seems pretty unfair that these Elves are denied the chanced to stretch their legs in Valinor cause of something that happened thousands and thousands of years ago. I think it's mentioned in the same book the the Umanyar don't even speak to the other Elves in the Halls.

[alatar]

Middle Earth - that's where all the fun is. Sure, the elves *did stuff* in Ages past when in Valinor, but that just led to problems, and so surely Manwe has put a stop to all creativity now.

And I know that the 'left behind' elves of Middle Earth suffer bouts of melancholy, but with all of the new things that appear in Middle Earth (hobbits, humans, etc), I think that I could stave off the blues for a good while.

[Morthoron]

Middle-earth. Valinor is like an Elvish retirement community. Who wants to play shuffleboard and canasta for eternity? Plus there's all that bowing and scraping to the Valar. No thanks.

[alatar]

There's a *reason* the elves fled Valinor, and why Manwe (finally realizing the danger) walled the place off to us mortals.

[xMellrynxMaidenx]

If you are of the Umanyar, you are not reincarnated. Once you die you stay permenantly in the Halls of Mandos. I think that's mentioned in Morgoth's Ring. It seems pretty unfair that these Elves are denied the chanced to stretch their legs in Valinor cause of something that happened thousands and thousands of years ago. I think it's mentioned in the same book the the Umanyar don't even speak to the other Elves in the Halls.

'Tis very true, I actually forgot the Umanyar. :( It's been so long, I need to brush back up on everything. I do agree though, it is very unfair to them.

The points you guys raise does make one reconsider their choice...Middle Earth is pretty sizeable, after all. ;) A whole lot of traveling to do and places to see.

Morthoron...Picturing Lord Celeborn and Lord Elrond playing shuffleboard...it's priceless! :D

[Galin]

If you are of the Umanyar, you are not reincarnated. Once you die you stay permenantly in the Halls of Mandos. (...)

I don't recall this myself. Maybe I'm off but maybe you're thinking of the idea that those Unbodied Elves who refuse the summons of Mandos -- that is, Elves who had died but refused to go to Mandos in spirit -- were not allowed to be re-born. At this stage Tolkien still imagined that Elves were reborn as elf-children incidentally, but he ultimately abandoned this form of reincarnation.

I think it's mentioned in the same book the the Umanyar don't even speak to the other Elves in the Halls.

The re-born reported that there is little communing of kind with kind, or of any one fea with another, for the houseless fea is solitary by nature '... and turned toward those with whom, maybe, if formed strong bonds of love in life.' Morgoth's Ring

Well... Sooner or later, all elves have to leave middle earth. There is no choice. The fourth age is the age of Men, and elves have no place - they must either go to Valinor or fade away and die - who would then go to the Halls of MAndos and then go to Valinor later on.

As noted, Elves who die can refuse Mandos and remain in Middle-earth. Morgoth's Ring also mentions the Lingerers (faded Elves), but fading in the body does not equate to death.

[Galadriel55]

Being any elf is pretty tiresome, really. How do they not get bored of living for milleniia, in Valinor or in ME? I'm tired of the world at the age of 13; imagine how I'd feel if I was an elf, destined to live for...well, forever. I much prefer humans.

[Almesiva Moonshadow]

I personally think I would stay in Middle Earth...
...Valinor just sounds soooo dull and boring...:D

[Galadriel55]

...Valinor just sounds soooo dull and boring...:D

Yes! You don't do anything except for have fun! Fun is good, but it's even better when you do other things as well. Not that I blame Frodo for leaving ME, but he's no elf, and I'm not Frodo. I wouldn't leave all the wonders of ME just for Valinor.

[Galadriel]

Yes! You don't do anything except for have fun! Fun is good, but it's even better when you do other things as well. Not that I blame Frodo for leaving ME, but he's no elf, and I'm not Frodo. I wouldn't leave all the wonders of ME just for Valinor.

Valinor really does seem like an old-age home, doesn't it? ;) The only reason I'd go is because of that silly curse, that all elves will grow weary of ME eventually.

[Galadriel]

Being any elf is pretty tiresome, really. How do they not get bored of living for milleniia, in Valinor or in ME? I'm tired of the world at the age of 13; imagine how I'd feel if I was an elf, destined to live for...well, forever. I much prefer humans.

Lol, true that! Though I wouldn't mind recovering from injuries quickly and being tall. I'm really small :(

[Galadriel55]

And I wouldn't mind being able to tell a finch from a sparrow from a mile away :)
My eyesight is pretty bad.

[Galadriel]

And I wouldn't mind being able to tell a finch from a sparrow from a mile away :)
My eyesight is pretty bad.

Oh yeah. I hate bad eyesight :(