Could Gandalf beat Sauron challenged one on one?

[swordspoken]

We have the book called LOTR weapons and warfare and under Gandalf it says that the powers forbaid Gandalf from challenging Sauron directly. Well I guess I have two questions: Could Gandalf beat Sauron? and who are these freakin' Powers?

[Lord of Angmar]

The Powers are the Valar, the gods or demigods who sent Gandalf and the Istari to Middle-earth to combat the forces of Sauron.

Gandalf and Sauron (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000052)
Sauron vs Olorin 1on1 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002632)

Perhaps these links will assist in answering the other part of your question.

-Angmar

[Oroaranion]

To my knowledge the so called freaking powers were the Valar. Gandalf an dthe other Istari were sent by the Valar to Middle Earth to help teh peoples of ME to realise their strength, and defeat Sauron themselves.

Gandalf talks at some point about facing Sauron one-on-one, but i can't remember any more. If Sauron had the One Ring, he would most likely beat Gandalf.

[master_of_puppets]

i think a direct challange between Gandalf the White and a ringless Sauron is likely to end in Gandalf's favour, because Sauron's relatively weak over those whom he cannot control and all he could do in defense would be to summon Orcs. if Gandalf were say to appear at Bara Dur and catch the Eye un-defended he could probably have taken him down. One likes tho think of Good having the final triumph over evil.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 12:34 PM January 11, 2004: Message edited by: master_of_puppets ]

[Carrûn]

In regards to the story I think it is irrelevant since the Istari were forbidden from directly challenging Sauron.

That aside, it makes for some interesting speculation. I'd like to think Gandalf, but who knows.

[Er-Murazor]

In my opinion, Sauron even without the ring has the enormous advantage of having a bigger and unlimited power (he was one of the most powerful of the Maiar and at the begining of the Second Age personally more powerful than Morgoth himself which is some serious thing), while Olorin even in the less restrained White version would need the ring to have about a 50/50 (at best) to destroy Sauron.

[Elassar 516]

Although, what is Sauron going to do, stare him to death. Seriously though, Sauron put much of his former power into the ring, plus he had already had his physical form destroyed twice. I think Gandalf could have won.

[The Dark Elf]

gandalf was very powerful. do you remember when he said if he took the ring that his intentions would be good, but he become the Dark Lord himself. Sauron has some controll. Does that mean he's better than Gandalf?

[Armetiel]

defeat Sauron as in throw him down for awhile or destry him completely...because as long as the ring was in existance the latter could not be done...However, in the case of the former it is my opinion that Gandalf could take Sauron one on one as you say. I mean, if you really think about it, ALthough it wasn't really one on one, it kind of almost comes down to that when Isildur defeated Sauron the first time. And Sauron HAD the ring then (well other than the fact that Isildur cut it off) but he was a huge power at that time too. So especially without the ring, I believe Gandalf would be the stronger.

[Elassar 516]

That's true, but the ring is evil, so it would seem to me that aside from the amount of power it would take to weild the ring in the first place it would take a lot more to use it to do good without it either turning bad or corrupting the weilder (if that's even possible). Gandalf knows this so he doesn't try, I don't think that necessarily means he is less powerful.

[Kaiserin]

The Istari only interfered with the affairs of mortals as the Valar allowed. It wasn't for Gandalf to defeat Sauron.

[maikafanawen]

I'm trying to think here now, Saruman the White beat Gandalf the Grey in Orthanc, then Gandalf the Grey beat the Balrog. Or then, was the Orthanc battle unmatched?

I think that Sauron has the ability to beat Gandalf (Grey and White) but that Gandalf would know how to beat Sauron. So Gandalf would win....

It would be a hell of a fight though.

-Maikafanawen

[Legolas]

Gandalf could have. Letter No. 246:

Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him – being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form. In the 'Mirror of Galadriel', 1381, it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as is seen in Elrond's words at the Council. Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve. In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. One can imagine the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. It would be a delicate balance. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end.
Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great).
[The draft ends here. In the margin Tolkien wrote: 'Thus while Sauron multiplied [illegible word] evil, he left "good" clearly distinguishable from it. Gandalf would have made good detestable and seem evil.']

I recommend reading this thread, or at least the initial post: The Powers of the Istari (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001982)