Do Balrogs have wings? What Color is Legolas's Hair? What is Tom Bombadil? Entwives?

[Glamdring]

Just to clear things up, Balrogs have wings ("It's wings were spread form wall to wall; but still Gandalf could be seen...). Legolas has BLOND hair ("Elves were light of color, and rarely had Dark Beauty") and I have no friggin idea what happened to the Entwives or what mr. Bombadil is.

[Ahanarion]

In my opinion Balrogs don't have wings (or at least not usable ones). This is suported by the Silmarillion in some intstances in the story Dagor Bragollach (Hope I spelled it right) it says that the Balrogs ran behind Glaurung not flew. In the quote you used the word wings may be a simile but everyone is entitled to their own opinions. As for Legolas he may have had blonde hair because in The Hobbit it says Thranduil has golden hair. I don't know where you got that last quote. In the Silmarillion the most of the Noldor have dark hair as do most of the Teleri (the group to which Legolas belongs). The Vanyar are however said to have predominatly light hair.

[Sharkû]

Down, nasty topics! http://www.plauder-smilies.de/rough/twak.gif

Seriously, those are not without reason old bones of contention, that don't really need a new thread to voice a subjective opinion on something that has extensively discussed in scholarly manner in several hundred thousand words in this forum alone.

[Ereinion]

<sigh>, ye have opened quite a can of worms, child. Balrogs, in my opinion, probably did have wings, no matter how much I'd like them too. It requires far to much speculation and chance to say they have wings even though they drop from the sky all over the place. Legolas might'va had dark hair, as do the majority of the Elves, but I'll always picture him with blonde. Tom Bombadil is one of the most mysterious characters in LOTR. Some believe him to be Tolkien himself, others that he is a represention of the vanishing English countryside or something. I think he might be a lost Maia or something but have nothing to prove it other than my opinion. Entwives might have all become "sleepy" or been destroyed in a war. I do not know. But I can see a flame war brewing about the Balrogs...(yes, that was a dumb pun smilies/smile.gif)

[Lush]

Four topics from hell on a single thread! I guess it's a good thing that most of us are too tired to argue about this already.
But anyway, so, did Glorfindel really come back to ME, or was it some other elf-lord with flowing golden hair?...Kidding! Kidding! Don't pulverize me, Sharkey, I still have much to do in this life. smilies/wink.gif

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Well, to settle the question about Balrog wings forever, let's just take a test shall we. What would look cooler-a huge demonic devil-like creature with wings, or a huge demonic devil-like creature without wings. I personally think that even though there is no conclusive evidence that they had wings, wings still would be cool. Very cool, and even more intimidating and dangerous. Plus, I'll say it again, the balrogs wings were only described metaphorically as great wings of shadow, but isn't the balrog itself made of shadow? Why can't that shadow be the same as the fire covering veil of shadow the balrog is enveloped by anyway? Plus Thranduil was described as having golden hair so why not his son as well. As for Bombadil-he's a leprechuan-okay he's not, but he reminds me of one. And I believe the entwives were spotted last in the Shire.

[CryingGlitter]

I think I will refer to the very first post on this topic about the Balrog having wings. Look at the written word of J.R.R. Tolkien himself. The Balrog did have wings.. whether they are usable or not now that is another topic. Most Elves have blond hair (refer to The Silmarillion for that).. a few don't but most of them do especially most of the ones mentioned in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Well there's my two cents - but that's not enough to rub together now a days is it?
~Daisy

[Glim Iceholder]

Where specifically does it say most elves have blond hair, I only remember it saying that blond hair was rare out side of the Vanyar and the house of Finarfin.

[Kalimac]

Hmm...probably the briefest answers that are absolutely undebatable would be (1) maybe (2) either dark or light - at least we can be pretty sure it wasn't red (3) who knows - even Tolkien didn't (4) see the answer to (3). Nice way to ooze out of a huge, fruitless argument, eh? smilies/smile.gif

[firncristwen]

Naaaaaah...Legolas was fair-haired. Besides, I think he was Sinudrin (sp? Sinudran? It's late). Like father, like son. The only remark ever made about his hair was when he's aiming at the Black Rider in the sky when they're on the river-banks after being in Lórien. It says that it shone dark in the moonlight...which must mean that it was dark then versus how light it was in day. That cracked me up about even Tolkien not knowing. I mean, if he doesn't know, then we are really screwed, aren't we? smilies/biggrin.gif

I tend to disagree that Bombadil was JRR. It doesn't seem as if he would put himself in such role. I've always thought he was Samwise. I love Sam! smilies/smile.gif

For an excellent LotR group go here (http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/LOTRCrush/)

[VanimaEdhel]

Balrogs were originally Spirits of Fire (probably still were) and then Melkor corrupted them...if that is of any help. So: they probably didn't need wings.

Legolas I believe was blondish (either dark blonde or a little lighter...most likely not really light, I think). His father was blonde, so I thought he would probably be, since that was the only description we are given by Tolkien. We may have been told about his mother, if he were different from his father.

Tom? Tom is...Tom. I do not know if anyone, save maybe the Valar and Eru, know exactly what Tom is (maybe not even Tolkien). He is no man and he is all men. He is living and he is spirit...he is all and nothing.

The entwives are...who knows where. I thought they would resolve that in LotR (I thought they would be found near the Shire or something), but they didn't. The entwives are...elsewhere. Maybe they...opened a portal into our world and are terrorizing young sheep (for all I know, they could be). Or they are working at McDonald's or something...

[ March 30, 2002: Message edited by: VanimaEdhel ]

[Araen]

Legoals is most defently fair haired. I pictured him with brownish-blond hair but still more on the blondish side. Balrogs do have wings I think, just not big fluffy, slippered feet. The rest I have no idea........

[Mirkgirl]

The Balrogs don't have wings, don't need them, and Tolkein used wings after saying like wings, i.e. he was just using our nightmares involving winged demons.

Legolas was blonde but that about the elves is just not right.

Tom is Bombadil and that's all you need to know.

I personally believe more entwives were killed and the one left did some mysterious deeds in the Shire, but that's just my belief.

Glorfindel? Oh no that's too hot here!

[Pips]

Has anyone thought about the fact taht Tom could have been Father Time and Goldberry, Mother Earth? After all, Tom knew what was going, was not effected by the Ring. Goldberry just seems to protray the Mother Earth theam

[Morgoth of Angband]

very good questions.

[Aralaithiel]

OK, here's the Eldaran High Queen's input (Feel free to scan over my post! smilies/biggrin.gif)...
Balrog wings - purely ornamental
Legolas - dark blonde, more like ash blonde
Tom Bombadill - way smilies/cool.gif character
Entwives - ???????? Jury still out on this one, and better cater a nice dinner for 'em tooa s they'll be there a while!
Glorfindel - Anyone can be resurrected (spelling?), right? Author's perogative.

[ March 30, 2002: Message edited by: Aralaithiel ]

[Fingolfin of the Noldor]

to Nuredhelion, CryingGlitter and whomever else it may concern,

That passage is hardly evidence for literal "wings" and in fact lends to quite the contrary given Tolkien's figurative manner when using the specific literary structure found inthe passages in question in "The Bridge of Kazaddum."

I have done extensive research on the topic and have posted my finding and I will post a ink to them on this board shortly for you to look over if you so wish.

[Birdland]

Yes, the Balrog was blond.

Tom Bombadil did have wings, but they were for ornamental purposes only.

Legolas is an enigma.

And entwives had beards, so most people couldn't tell them from Ents.

I'm glad I was able to clear this up for everyone.

[Mayla Took]

Ha ha! Thanks Birdland! I think we all understand clearly now! Ha ha smilies/biggrin.gif

[Nar]

For shame, Birdland! Tom Bombadil's giant batwings were hardly ornamental! Recall how Tom was tragically killed in The First Age, when he flew too close to the light of Telperion, eldest of trees, which melted his batwings and sent him falling into the sea! Of course, he was later sent back after the Fall of Gondolin, eventually taking his rightful place as Ar-Pharazon of Numenor, as recounted in Tolkien's 'Return of the King: The Prequel.' The whole 'living in a cottage in the forest, bringing his wife flowers every day' thing was just an attempt to make up to his wife Goldberry, formerly known as Tar-Míriel, for getting their kingdom destroyed. Legend tells that she eventually forgave him-- I think it was sometime around the end of the Fifth Age, after heart-shaped chocolates had been invented. In fact, I believe Tom Bombadil, in his desperation, may have invented heart-shaped chocolates himself.

[Fingolfin of the Noldor]

Here is my work:
http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000137

ill bump the tread up aswell for convinence sake.

[Altariel]

Actually, Tom Bombadil is really the Witch-King. Haven't you ever wondered why they can never be seen in the same room?

"The ol' Witch-king is a merry fellow,
Dark black his cowl is, and his crown is yellow..."

[Nar]

Fingolfin-- I enjoyed your article. Thanks for the link. You've produced a professional argument, well-reasoned and with extensive evidence. Looking for other uses of wings in simile was a clever angle to take-- I personally find it very convincing. 'Winged' for 'swift' is a common comparison in the classics, isn't it? Tolkien was immersed in them: classics, old english epics, just no modern novels. I had been meaning to seek out a thread on the great balrog wings controversy, which I have heard whispers about; that was a nice taste of it.

[Orodhromeus]

Could the beings seen outside Hobbiton at the beginning of FotR have been Ents and not Ent-wives? Was Old-man Willow a Huorn?

[Bruce MacCulloch]

I had been meaning to seek out a thread on the great balrog wings controversy, which I have heard whispers about; that was a nice taste of it. Didn't you know? This is the Barrow-Downs where all threads in only one of two ways: unmitigated silliness or as a Balrog wings thread! All you have to do is wait a while in almost any given thread and you will come across the wing controversy.
http://www.plauder-smilies.de/faga1.gif

[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: Bruce MacCulloch ]

[Little_My*]

I always thought of Legolas as a blond...I thought it stood in the book...and then I saw the movie, I thought he really was blond. He probably is, I mean, if his father was?
And the Balrog, do you really think that he would fall if he really had wings? nah..I dont know...and Tom Bombadil might as well be Saddam Hussein, or Elvis, or a really powerful dude!

[Mhoram]

Do Balrogs have wings?

Not real ones, no.

What Color is Legolas's Hair?

Unknown, irrelevant.

What is Tom Bombadil?

An Enigma.

Entwives?

Treeish.

[Kalimac]

Oh, so THAT's what happened to Elvis! smilies/biggrin.gif . Though personally I think he'd end up more like Tim Benzedrine than Tom Bombadil, if you know what I mean...

As for Legolas, this is definitely one of those "ultimately, who cares" issues, but in "The Hobbit" isn't Thranduil described as the "golden-haired King of the Elves". I realize that "The Hobbit" isn't strictly canon, but that's one of those details which would seem kind of pointless for Bilbo to change - it's not like it makes the story any more dramatic or anything, the way "Attercop!" does.

[Keeper-of-Vilya]

Oh boy you really opened a can of worms ! ! smilies/biggrin.gif

IMHO - Legolas has BLOND hair of course ! barlogs DO have wings. and I do not have any earthly idea what Tom was, or what ever happened to the entwives....

[Tarthang]

A can of worms indeed. It started out bad enough without someone having brought up glorfindel. So for what it's worth:
Balrog Wings: Decide for yourself.
Legolas' Hair: i alway's imagined it as blonde, even though as Moriquendi, odds are it was dark in coloration. Maybe we should start a thread debating wether or not his hair coloration comes from his mothers genes opposed to his fathers.
Tom Bombadil: An intentional mystery.
Entwives: Alway's interpreted the moving tree shapes in the shire from FOTR as being entwives. Hmmm...perhaps the Entwives led a group of early hobbits out of the Anduin Vale, across the Misty Mountains, enriching said hobbits with gardening cum farming techniques.

[Galadriel55]

[QUOTE=Glamdring;71470]Just to clear things up, Balrogs have wings ("It's wings were spread form wall to wall; but still Gandalf could be seen...). QUOTE]

But before that it said something like "darkness spread on either side of him [B]like[B] wings". This means that barlogs don't have real wings. Or at least they can't fly - how do they fall of bridges in that case? And whats the use of You Shall Not Pass it the Balrog can fly around you?

[Galadriel]

1. Yes, but useless ones.

2. I would assume golden, since his father has that shade.

3. An enigma, as someone else said.

4. Are lost, probably.

[Galadriel55]

about the entwives, either lost or dead.
Whether Balrogs do or do not have wings, it doesn't really matter, since they can't fly (Fire Ostriches?)
Gold is the only colour that fits Legolases almost constant cheerful mood.

[Nerwen]

Personally, I thought this long-gone Downer had it right:
Yes, the Balrog was blond.

Tom Bombadil did have wings, but they were for ornamental purposes only.

Legolas is an enigma.

And entwives had beards, so most people couldn't tell them from Ents.

I'm glad I was able to clear this up for everyone.

[Mithalwen]

Nice find Nerwen! That has to be the definitive set of answers ...

[Bêthberry]

Personally, I thought this long-gone Downer had it right:

Originally Posted by Birdland, whoever Birdland may be



Birdland was a witty and clever, gentle, wonderful woman who graced the pages of the Downs when I joined, as you might well guess from her reply that you quote. She was never redundant, pompous, or boring--a read through her posts is well-rewarding. She's one of the lost greats of the Second Age of the forum.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Birdland was a witty and clever, gentle, wonderful woman who graced the pages of the Downs when I joined, as you might well guess from her reply that you quote. She was never redundant, pompous, or boring--a read through her posts is well-rewarding. She's one of the lost greats of the Second Age of the forum.

May she walk (as opposed to rest) in peace.

[Almesiva Moonshadow]

1.Did Balrogs have wings? First and foremost, I dont understand why is this question so important,and popular on almost any tolkien related forum.
Second,I beleive that there could have been many types of balrogs,just like there were many types of elves (sindar,noldor,vanyar,etc)...so for example,some lower ranked balrogs didnt have wings,while the higher ranked ones had them. So it all could have been the matter of species or something...But this is just a speculation of mine, so...:D

2.What is the color of Legolas' hair? I have always been convinced that Legolas was dark haired. After all, he was of sindarin heritage, and almost all the sindar elves mentioned in Tolkiens works were dark-haired (Thingol,Luthien,Daeron,etc) so Legolas must have dark haired as well, unless his mother (who is a complete mystery to us) was of vanyarian origin, or at least had an ancestor who was. I dont know, its complicated...:rolleyes:

3.What is Tom Bombadil? Its enough to know Golberry's quote from the book, to know the answer to this question:"He is." and some other quotes like "Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside." The dark lord, could have easily been Sauron after the fall of Numenor, but if that were the case, Tom Bombadil wouldnt have been "the eldest" as mentioned in this quote "Eldest, that's what I am". So the dark lord must have been Melkor and not Sauron,thus leaving me convinced that Tom is acctually the incarnation Iluvatar.

As for the entwies...I dunno...they got cought by Greenpeace?...:D
Okay...I know...a very bad joke...

[Galadriel55]

Did Balrogs have wings: Who cares? They can't fly anyways.

Or they could have pocket mini-wings. :D

Legolas' hair colour: He dyes it a different colour every other week.

Who is Tom Bombadil: The guy who's singing nonesense all the time.

Entwives: They are trying to figure out where they are. They're lost, aren't they? ;)

[Galadriel]

Did Balrogs have wings: Who cares? They can't fly anyways.

Or they could have pocket mini-wings. :D



Doesn't make much biological sense :p Unless they evolved from birds of flight. What an interesting story that would make...

[Galadriel]

2.What is the color of Legolas' hair? I have always been convinced that Legolas was dark haired. After all, he was of sindarin heritage, and almost all the sindar elves mentioned in Tolkiens works were dark-haired (Thingol,Luthien,Daeron,etc) so Legolas must have dark haired as well, unless his mother (who is a complete mystery to us) was of vanyarian origin, or at least had an ancestor who was. I dont know, its complicated...:rolleyes:



I thought Thingol had silver hair? And Thranduil clearly does have golden hair.

[Morthoron]

Doesn't make much biological sense :p

Hmmm...but then again, demonic creatures of flame and shadow are, by their very nature, biological anomalies.;)

[Galin]

I thought Thingol had silver hair? And Thranduil clearly does have golden hair.

Yes but the Sindar are rather sweepingly described as dark-haired, both in Appendix F (included as Eldar), and in Quendi And Eldar where compared generally to the Noldor.

There will be exceptions, but the usual colour -- or at least the colour Tolkien employs in very general descriptions of the Noldor and Sindar as a whole (the Eldar of Middle-earth) -- is dark-haired.

[blantyr]

1.Did Balrogs have wings? First and foremost, I dont understand why is this question so important,and popular on almost any tolkien related forum.

Second,I beleive that there could have been many types of balrogs,just like there were many types of elves (sindar,noldor,vanyar,etc)...so for example,some lower ranked balrogs didnt have wings,while the higher ranked ones had them. So it all could have been the matter of species or something...But this is just a speculation of mine, so...:D

I've a highly non canon story to add. My sister was down in Florida, in a costume store associated with Walt Disney World, when a family wandered in. The father, a pirate, was managing a small herd of very small princesses. The mother, in a backless evening dress, was at the store to acquire a set of wings.

"Oh! Mother! Now you can fly!"

3.What is Tom Bombadil? Its enough to know Golberry's quote from the book, to know the answer to this question:"He is." and some other quotes like "Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside." The dark lord, could have easily been Sauron after the fall of Numenor, but if that were the case, Tom Bombadil wouldnt have been "the eldest" as mentioned in this quote "Eldest, that's what I am". So the dark lord must have been Melkor and not Sauron,thus leaving me convinced that Tom is acctually the incarnation Iluvatar.

I will note that "He is" is the third person form of "I am."

This conjecture suggests that the intent and purpose of Ilúvatar in creating Eä can at last be known. He wanted to shack up with Goldberry.

"Shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him?"