Riddles continued

[the guy who be short]

I believe it was the elves in Mirkwood, in The Hobbit. They didnt like the dwarves there!

[Horse-Maiden of the Shire]

You got it Orofaniel!

No knowing, no knowing
What brings Mister Baggins!

[Orofaniel]

So it was The elves in Rivendell?

Okey...I'm sorry I don't have the time to post a riddle right now...I'll do it this evening or tomorrow morning!

[Orofaniel]

Okey....I'm back...here it goes:

The last High one of the second of the three
the first bearer of one of the three
He fought the dark and besieged his seat
but was undone by the searing heat

[Lyra Greenleaf]

Gil-Galad?

[Orofaniel]

That is correct indeed. Please continue smilies/biggrin.gif

[Lyra Greenleaf]

Here we go, should be pretty easy:

Like light on water,
A bird on the wing,
The blood of three,
A wonder I bring.

[ June 21, 2003: Message edited by: Lyra Greenleaf ]

[alquadae]

Earendil ?

[Gil-Galad]

maybe soemthign about Cirdan and the Teleri?

[Arestevana]

Elwing?

[Lyra Greenleaf]

Very good, Arestevana has it! Your go.

Like light on water, She was named for light glimmering on a waterfall
A bird on the wing, She was turned into a bird with the help of Ulmo
The blood of three, She had human, Elvish and Maiar ancestry
A wonder I bring. The silmaril, to Earendil

[Arestevana]

Thanks. Before I continue, I have a question. I can't find the original thread and this doesn't have a game description. Are these riddles for only people, or for places and objects too?

[The Saucepan Man]

Hmm, I cannot seem to find the previous thread, either. And I am not sure why this one was opened, given that there is already a riddles thread at Riddle ME this (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000401&p=5).

I would suggest that, in order to differentiate it from that thread, which is concerned solely with Tolkien-related answers, this one is open to riddles where the answer may be anything (whether Tolkien-related or not), provided that the riddle is in the style used in Tolkien's works (ie that used by Bilbo and Gollum in Riddles in the Dark).

So, please feel free to continue on that basis, Arestevana. smilies/smile.gif

[Beren87]

Hmm, I cannot seem to find the previous thread, either.

That's because it was originally in N&N and then in ME Mayhem. This thread was made in MEM, but I had it moved here.

[The Saucepan Man]

Thanks Beren. smilies/smile.gif

So, if it is a continuation of the thread that was in Middle Earth Mayhem, the guidelines that I outlined in my previous post are most definately those which are applicable here.

[Arestevana]

Okay, here goes.

From Night to Evening, night again
I Passed without a word
Unless it were that in the passing
The voice of death was heard
And maybe it was for that voice
That I was named anew
As the curse upon my wielder
grew yet stronger as he slew.
Until at last his life I claimed
As my name he called his own.
To forget the blood of friendships
and quiet the spirits' moan.

[Finwe]

Gurthang, Turin's black sword. He was also called Mormegil after it.

[Arestevana]

Correct. smilies/biggrin.gif

[Finwe]

No living creature am I,
wrought by Elven hands am I,
weapon I am, and yet not so,
over me sometimes water does flow,
In the noontide of Elves I fell,
Not by any fault of my own to be sure,
When I fell I killed my maker,
Whose Grey-elven name means naught.

This one is indeed a bit strange, and it will probably take everyone a while.

[Finwe]

*bump*

All right, I'll give you a hint.

HINT: It was a building in the First Age.

[Nuranar]

Nargothrond?

[Beren87]

Gondolin? More of a guess than anything, Turgon would have then been the maker killed, as he was defending his tower.

[Finwe]

Beren, you're very close, and the answer is in your post, but I want something more specific than Gondolin.

[Beren87]

Ah, the Tower of the King, then.

[Finwe]

Yes, your go!

[Beren87]

I hate riddles.. =P

Created by just one
later used by many
recrafted by another
used by not just any

a large number was I
trice 12, the truth
Yet carried for centuries
by both old and youth

There you are!

[Finwe]

Narsil?

[Beren87]

Nope, it's not that easy. =P

[Finwe]

It was the Tengwar alphabet, crafted by Rumil, then improved by Fëanor. It was later used by many, and there are 36 of them.

[Beren87]

Ok, so it isn't that hard either. smilies/wink.gif Your go Finwe!

[Finwe]

It took me a while to realize it, but I finally got it! I think I'm on a roll here!

Made long ago,
Part of thy previous staves,
Spoken differently by one,
Separated kin.
Spoken by the jewel,
Spoken by the fire,
Changed by all else,
But those remained as one,
And yet they never met.

Try to get past that one!

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

It wasn't the Tengwar by any chance was it?
Made long ago -- It was
Spoken differently by one -- the Black Language, perhaps?
Spoken by the jewel -- some crypticness there I'd guess which I can't be bothered deciphering *yawn*
Spoken by the fire -- Written on the Ring

I doubt I've got the right answer. Nice riddle.

[Venyatuima]

Does it have anything to do with the Music of the Ainur, by any chance? I'm thinking particularly Melkor's discords, here ...

Made long ago - at the beginning of time
Part of thy previous staves - is it then, the second or third theme, taken from the first, but different because of Melkor?
Spoken differently by one - there goes Melkor and his discords
Seperated kin - the rift that grew between Melkor and the other Ainur.
Spoken by the jewel - something to do with the Silmarils. The music was taken and twisted by Melkor, and his taking of the Silmarils caused much evil. "Spoken" implying the theme was reflected in the tale of the Silmarils.

And then I got completely stuck. smilies/wink.gif Please tell me if I'm at all close smilies/smile.gif

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

Brilliance, my young cadaver, you show great promise. smilies/smile.gif Sounds good to me anyway. I might try and follow on a bit.

Spoken by the jewel -- The War of the Jewels
Spoken by the fire -- The Flame of Anor, the fire of life
^-- Detailing the way in which the Dischord was manifested, perhaps

Changed by all else -- The Dischord had affected everything.

[Venyatuima]

Thank you Gwaihir! smilies/biggrin.gif

[Finwe]

Gwaihir, you're very close with the Tengwar. But I'll give you a hint, it has something to do with pronunciation.

[Finwe]

All right, since no one seems to be getting this, I'll give you a hint, a very big one.


HINT: The jewel I'm referring to is a PERSON, and an ELF. Now think people, think!

[Orofaniel]

Fëanor perhaps?

He is an elf and made the Silmarils, the jewels.

They were made long ago, but I don't seem to "find" connection with the other lines.... smilies/frown.gif

*thinks again.......hardere than before...*

[ July 23, 2003: Message edited by: Orofaniel ]

[Finwe]

Oh, very close. But it's actually one of the Tengwar, and Fëanor (and someone else) pronounced it differently than everyone else.

[Luthien_ Tinuviel]

Made long ago,-the Tengwar were made long ago
Part of thy previous staves,
Spoken differently by one,
Separated kin.- The elves of Valinor and the elves of Beleriand spoke different versions of the same original language.
Spoken by the jewel,-That would be Miriel, whose name means "jewel-woman"
Spoken by the fire,-That's Feanor, whose name means "Spirit of Fire"
Changed by all else,-This must be the pronunciation part. Does it refer to the change of pronunciation of the Quenya dipthong "iu" during the Third Age?
But those remained as one,
And yet they never met. -I'm not sure about this part.

[Esgallhugwen]

May i help with the last part , my theory any way, all the rest is well and good luthien.
But those remained as one,
And yet they never met- the language had similarities in it, it had the same origin among the elves. Now this i'm not sure about but the elves of Valinor and the elves of Beleriand never met or at least the languages never met if you know my meaning. or it could be that Feanor and Miriel never met but they spoke the same language. smilies/smile.gif i'm not sure about this but it's as good as anybodies guess!

[Finwe]

Luthien, I'll give it to you, since you're by far the closest one. What I was actually looking for was the pronunciation of the "s" tengwa. It was pronounced "th" by both Miriel and Fëanor, who never met, and "s" by everyone else (which was actually a bit of a Vanyarin influence, thus, Fe-Fe didn't like it). It was also one of the reasons Fe-Fe looked down on Fingolfin and Finarfin and the rest of the "family" because they pronounced it as an "s."