"Minor works" trivia

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Granted, the spell did not smell of Christmasy spices; still, does anyone want to attempt an answer at this season?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I guess no one is going to attempt to answer that question, so here's a new one:

Who was not the duke's nephew, though he had the same name?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I'm reviving this question in hopes that a minor works fan will answer it or at least ask for a clue to show interest... If not, I may have to ask a really easy question to get it moving again!

[HerenIstarion]

Both questions are very curious, and I would venture so far in showing interest as to aks for the answer to the former, and a clue to the latter :)

[Estelyn Telcontar]

The latter comes from a poetic minor work - clue enough?

The former comes from Roverandom: What was the Man-in-the-Moon doing? Well, he let off a truly magnificent rocket; and after that he said 'Drat that creature!' and also 'Drat those puppies! They will bring on an eclipse before it is due!' And then he went down into the cellars and uncorked a dark, black spell that looked like jellified tar and honey (and smelt like the Fifth of November and cabbage boiling over).
I found that very amusing!

[HerenIstarion]

Smell of a spell - Ah, I must have remembered that!

As for the nephews - I may recall two dukes in 'minor works' - Beorhtnoth (duke of Essex), and Dodinel de Sauvage (same as Doddinaual de Sauage) duke of Clarence.

Or, to be truly honest, I may recall one duke (that is, Beorhtnoth) and I've looked up another one ;)

I can recall no nephews, though. And haven't found any, besides Gawain himself, who is not duke's nephew, but King's nephew. Also several other noble knights, equally Arthur's nephews.

But should I recall nephews at all? I should not, obviously - point being, the chap was not a nephew?

um... I certainly feel like another hint here :)

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Beorhtnoth is the right place to look. The mix-up concerns two persons of the same name.

[HerenIstarion]

Wulfmær, son of Wulfstan of Essex (Eastsaxon lad, eh?)

Not Wulfmær, Beorhtnoth's sister son of Essex (is he not an Eastsaxon lad as well?)

[Estelyn Telcontar]

That's correct, HI! Pray puzzle us with a new question.

[HerenIstarion]

Who (two) exchanged axe blows with an interval of an year?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I'm puzzled by this question, HI, trying to remember where in a minor work axe blows are exchanged. It must be in one of JRRT's translations, which I haven't read yet. Can you drop a hint, please?

[HerenIstarion]

One of the two was quite peculiar in aspect of reaction in onlooker's visual brain cells caused by the stimulus the light refracted by the eyes of onlooker's brought to said cells, caused, in its turn, by particular way the light reflected off said person.

I'm not quite sure what exactly I did say, myself, though :D

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Well, before I start searching seriously, I'm just going to hazard a guess here - were the two Sir Gawain and the Green Knight?

[HerenIstarion]

But of course they were! You may proceed, my lady :)

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Of which two components does 'News of the World' mostly consist, according to one of Tolkien's works?

[HerenIstarion]

Murders and football matches, mostly (Roverandom)

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Precisely, HI! (And it's still true today, sadly.) Go for a new one!

[HerenIstarion]

Which person of noble and ancient descent was called, quite unexpectedly to both of the participants of the conversation, 'horny old vermint' on one occassion?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

The dragon Chrysophylax was called "you horny old varmint" by Farmer Giles of Ham.

[HerenIstarion]

Of course, madam :) Pray proceed

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Which word does Tolkien use to express the opposite of eucatastrophe?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

'Tragedy'

At least I would say that Tragedy is the true form of Drama, its highest function; but the opposite is true of Fairy-story. Since we do not appear to possess a word that expresses this opposite - I will call it Eucatastrophe.

On Fairy-stories, Recovery, Escape, Consolation

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Very close, Squatter, and true, but there is a specific word for which I'm looking.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

'Tragedy' is a specific word. Clearly I was right and you've just forgotten the answer. I shall appeal. :smokin:

Alternatively, you must be looking for dyscatastrophe.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

That's the one I was looking for! It's such an interesting word, and used so seldom, which is why it appeals to me! Carry on, Squatter.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I think Tolkien invented dyscatastrophe too. It certainly isn't in the OED.

Which character encountered by the hero in Roverandom is a Viking?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Can you give a clue, Squatter? I can only find 'Niord', whom Rover doesn't actually encounter, or the 'Red Worm', of whom the mer-dog tells, but who is also not encountered by the title hero.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

With pleasure.

The clue is in the back-story. What is the element with which we most associate Vikings?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

water

I'll be searching for the answer.


edit: the sea-serpent, perhaps? (from Midgard)

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

But the sea-serpent isn't the Midgard Serpent. He's only partially based on Loki's serpentine offspring. Bear in mind that the Red Worm is a ship and not a character. Does that help?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Well, there is Niord, but he's only mentioned in passing, not actually encountered by Roverandom. If that's not it, I give up. Maybe someone else will come up with the answer...

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

No, I'm afraid it's not Njord. He's a god, and Vikings tend to be human. This really is rather more obvious than it might look: the only difficulty is that the character isn't actually called a viking by Tolkien. The clues are there, though; particularly if you have the annotated Roverandom

[Estelyn Telcontar]

OK, I could go through the story character by character, guessing, but I won't. I surrender.

*waves white flag

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Surely someone knows the answer to this one.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

It doesn't look as though anyone's going to get this one, so here are the answer and an easier question.

Our Viking is the Mer-dog. His story gives it away, although Tolkien never says anything specific. A fine sea-rover indeed.

What is Tailbiter's proper name?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

This one I know without even having to look it up! It's Caudimordax.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Right you are, Estelyn.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Which character in one of the minor works is referred to in all caps as HE and HIM?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

No takers for this question?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Just to resurrect this thread, I think I'll go out on a limb and suggest the King of Faerie in Smith of Wootton Major.

[Bêthberry]

I have a message for you, Squatter. Estelyn says "Keep looking." :D

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Fastitocalon, in the poem of the same name from The Adventures of Tom Bombadil.

Your days at peace in Middle-earth
In mirth
Fulfil

[Estelyn Telcontar]

You are right of course, Squatter, and thus entitled to baffle us with a new question. Sorry that my absence kept me from reacting to your post sooner...

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Thanks, Estelyn. Perhaps it won't be so baffling after all.

What colour is the label on the new bicycle that awaits Niggle at the end of his train journey?

[arcticstorm]

yellow, with large black letters

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

That was quick. And spot on, of course.

[arcticstorm]

ok, probably easy

What did Torhthelm use to kill the corpse-looter?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

He used Beorhtnoth's sword.

(...only easy because I've read these lines so often for the threads here and in 'Quotes'!)

[arcticstorm]

Good job
your question

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Which of Tolkien's characters suffered from lumbago?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Parish. His being "laid up with lumbago" was one of "a tremendous crop of interruptions" that helped to prevent the completion of Niggle's painting.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Right you are, Sir Trespasser. Pray proceed.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Right you are Esty.

Where does Smith encounter the Elven mariners?

[The Elf-warrior]

On the shore of the Sea of Windless Storm.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

That's the place. Take it away.

[The Elf-warrior]

When did Farmer Giles set out with Garm to find the dragon?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

They started off on Epiphany day, which is January 6. According to Wikipedia, that's "a Christian feast intended to celebrate the 'shining forth' or revelation of God to mankind in human form". It would be interesting to think of a reason for Tolkien's choice of that day for this event - actually a good topic for a serious discussion! Thanks for bringing up a fact which I had not consciously read until now, Elf-warrior!

[The Elf-warrior]

You're welcome, Estelyn Telcontar. It's your turn now.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I did start a thread to discuss the topic to which your question inspired me here (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=13422). Thanks again for the wonderful idea!

Now for a new question:

In which cave did the Sea-serpent used to live (and people wished him back there)?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Once he lived in Pot, "at the bottom of the deepest sea". Perhaps he was crowded out by the number of other things that have allegedly gone there over the years. There's an article about his interior decoration in Better Caves and Wastelands issue 135 (June 1958).

[Estelyn Telcontar]

You're right, of course, Squatter! Darn, I knew I should have bought all issues of Better Caves and Wastelands - I have 134 and 136, but not 135...

Anyway, take it away - and not to Pot!

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

What is the North Polar Bear's real name?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Karhu, or so it was supposed from his signature...

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Actually he does announce that his name is Karhu in one of his letters, but that's by the by. The thread is yours. :smokin:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

But he also wrote it under a picture (of rising sun behind the mountains): "Love from Karhu, Paksu, and Valkotukka" (this is from where I remember it)

Anyway.

How did Tídwald recognize Torhthelm in the dark? (easy one)

[Bêthberry]

Oh, wait, perhaps this means the night is cold and Torhthelm is shivering rather than he had a dental problem? Clearly I've been reading too much of Minus Teeth.

'Twas Totta's rattling teeth that announced him to Tidwald.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Of course. Your turn now.

(And yes, I think maybe there was something wrong with their dentists...)

[Bêthberry]

Would that I had found a warg reference to allude to teeth, either marked or pulled. For now, satisfy ourselves with this:


I would that I might with the minstrels sing

[Estelyn Telcontar]

A wonderful line from a wonderful poem, Bb! It's Philomythus speaking to Misomythus in Mythopoeia:I would that I might with the minstrels sing
and stir the unseen with a throbbing string.
I must admit, a wish closer to my heart comes a few lines later: or in fantastic banners weave the sheen
heraldic emblems of a lord unseen.

[Bêthberry]

Ah, the Evenstar! It's a lovely comment about her role, isn't it?

You have the thread, Mistress Quilty, to weave as you wish, for any lord or Downer unseen. ;)

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Yes, very true - that line definitely evokes Arwen. Well, here's a new quote for ya'll: I shall not forget you.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Well, it looks like this thread has been forgotten. Anyone want to give the quote a try, or shall I go on with a different one?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Oops, I mixed this thread up with the quotes thread - anyone is welcome to pose a trivia question instead.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Well, your quotation was from Father Christmas' last published letter (1943), in which he says "goodbye" to Priscilla Tolkien. Since you opened the thread again, though, here's a new question:

Which of the poems selected by Tolkien from the Red Book does he specifically localise to the Buckland?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Well, perhaps it's time to answer this question:

The first two poems in the Tom Bombadil cycle, "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" and "Bombadil Goes Boating", evidently come from the Buckland. They show more knowledge of that country, and of the Dingle, the wooded valley of the Withywindle, than any Hobbits west of the Marish were likely to possess. They also show that the Bucklanders knew Bombadil, though, no doubt, they had as little understanding of his powers as the Shirefolk had of Gandalf's...

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

It's been a long time, but I think that's the answer I was looking for.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

According to Tolkien's own words, which characters were probably "walkers in Outer Faery"?

[HerenIstarion]

According to Tolkien's own words, which characters were probably "walkers in Outer Faery"?

Smith's wife Nell and his daughter Nan I believe :)

[The Might]

Well, since it's been so long since so long since someone posted anything I thought the Minor works thread could also use a boost:

Who believes painting has uses?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I don't know what is his name in the original. In Czech, it's Kráčmera. He is a councillor (is that the word?), one of the three who discuss at the end of Leaf by Niggle.

I see, TM, that after being killed in WW, you decided to fill your free time with something else ;)

[The Might]

Indeed, I believe you mean Tompkins.
And yes, that is one of the reasons I tried to revive the Quiz threads. To give something to do. :D

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Tompkins. All right, I'll try to remember that. Anyway...

What was broken into four pieces?

If it's too hard, I may provide you with some hints ;)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, it was really very vague, but I did not think of a way to make it less vague without completely giving it out.

But what about putting it this way:

What was broken into four pieces as a result of certain animal's action?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

The "certain animal" sounds like it must be Roverandom, always getting into mischief, but I haven't been able to locate an exact reference yet. Am I on the right track?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

In fact Esty, I have to disappoint you. Think about all possible animals... but it's not that hard once you get on the right track, I'm sure you'd make it if you try :)

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Well, I've been searching and am not finding anything at all. Chrysophylax didn't cause anything to break, as far as I could see, nor did another animal in Roverandom. And the only other animals in minor works are in the Tom Bombadil poems, and I couldn't find any breakage there either.

Another clue, please?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Check everything that belongs to the "Minor works". It is written at the beginning of this thread (hey, in fact you wrote it yourself). You will know...

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Ah, it's that time of year again! I'd forgotten all about the Father Christmas Letters! In 1926 the moon was broken into four pieces because the North Polar Bear turned on all of the Northern Lights (nice Pullman reference, eh?!) at once.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yes, obviously :) Of course you are correct, please continue the thread and give us something interesting to think of :)

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Who traditionally set out upon a trip on St Nicholas' Day? (Since that is coming up in a week...)

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Well, St Nicholas' Day has come and gone, and the question is still unanswered. Anyone want to try?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

It was one knight in the Middle Kingdom every year to bring a dragon's tail to the king.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Yes, Legate - very good! You may begin a new quest...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hmm, who was the enemy of the Black swan?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

With some of those, it is really bad... almost nine months and no attempt for an answer...

[HerenIstarion]

That'd be a Sea-Rover the Man of the Red Worm dragon-ship and his men, the very master of the other Rover the mer-dog the Rover [dog proper] whom after the book Roverandom has been named had befriended on his voyage under the sea.

Lot of roving in the sentence above... but then there are lots of them rovers in the book mentioned, can't help it :rolleyes:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Indeed, well done. You may take the thread and pose another question, hopefully with better - earlier - response :)

[HerenIstarion]

Earlier response provided I'm quick enough with posing first :rolleyes: (my apologies for being late, like :smokin:)

So, being on the run, something easy off the top of my head:

Who it was to build himself a gilded gondola for wandering purposes?

[The Might]

There was a merry passenger,
a messenger, a mariner:
he built a gilded gondola
to wander in, and had in her
a load of yellow oranges
and porridge for his provender;
he perfumed her with marjoram
and cardamom and lavender.


The mariner. Nice question btw.

[The Might]

Anyone wishing to confirm this as a valid/flawed answer?

[HerenIstarion]

Coming, comings Sir!

My apologies for having forgotten about this :)

Surely your answer is correct, take the thread over

[The Might]

Ah, no problem at all.

Hmm, let me see:

Who jumped on a bicycle? (think it should be a fairly easy one)

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Well, since Mr Bliss only "got on his bicycle", with no jumping involved, then it must be Niggle.

[The Might]

Very true, Dame Telcontar! :)

[Estelyn Telcontar]

"Same procedure as every year" - the fireworks that herald the new year always do some damage. What was damaged by a destructive display of explosives in one of Tolkien's stories?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

'Father Christmas' reported to the Tolkien boys in 1926 that the North Polar Bear had set off two years' worth of 'Rory Bory Aylis' in one night. One of the disastrous effects was the breaking of the moon into four pieces.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

That's right, Squatter - and nice to have you posting here again! :smokin: Go ahead...

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Nice to be back, however incompletely. Like Húrin I have come as I could, but he had a better excuse. :smokin:

What of Niggle's "did not function properly"?

[Bêthberry]

Niggle's heart, according to the First Voice.

EDIT: What a pleasant way to bump up this thread and bump a spammer off the forum's front page!

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

That's the one, Beth. Sorry it took so long to confirm.