Eowyn and Faramir

[Gorwingel]

Today my sister asked "When did Eowyn and Faramir meet and when did they fall in love" or when did they decide to marry, and I realized that I really don't know, or remember. Is it that they are both injured in the Houses of Healing, and they meet there? I just need confirmation. smilies/cool.gif

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Yes, the story of their meeting and falling in love in the Houses of Healing is told in RotK, Book 6, Chapter 5, 'The Steward and the King'.

Here is a discussion on Faramir and Eowyn (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002220) and another about their love (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002354).

[ January 01, 2003: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]

[Arvedui24]

Yeah as everyone has already said they met in the Houses of Healing in Minas Tirith after both falling victim to the Nazgul, i think she settled to be honest... what a five minute courtship and a hasty proposal!!!

[Knight of Gondor]

I wouldn't call it hasty. They had days of waiting for the downfall of the Lord of the Rings and the Return of the King where they walked together and grew to love each other. At least, Eowyn found Faramir to be second best to Aragorn! smilies/smile.gif

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

Yes, it's interesting that, that Faramir should be able to guess her mind, and suddenly she was over Aragorn and willing to marry Faramir. But hey, it was sweet all the same!

[FingolfintheBold]

For one thing, I don't know that Eowyn ever really loved Aragorn. She thought he was high and mighty and great, as Faramir acknowledged, but she really had no grasp on who he really was and the destiny that was before him. Faramir was much more suited to Eowyn than Aragorn was, and Eowyn had a longer time to get aquainted with Faramir than she did with Aragorn!

[Dancing_Hobbit]

I agree completely. Eowyn was in love with Aragorn's power and freedom. She was in love with him the way a fan girl falls in love with a movie star (well, maybe a bit more seriously, though). She wasn't actually in love with the man himself. It was a crush. She got over it, and fell in love with Faramir. That time it really was love. It was developed through contact and knowledge of the other person. Looking back, I'm sure Eowyn thought she had been exceedingly silly to think she loved Aragorn. That's how crushes work. smilies/tongue.gif

[Arvedui24]

But it well put Faramir in a very difficult position, marrying Eówyn while still held a major torch for Aragorn. Days are a very short courtship especially compared to that of Aragorn and Arwen, many years.

[Rimbaud]

I do not think you can count Aragorn/Arwen's relationship as representative; moreover, in the quasi-medieval environment Tolkien bases the stories within, long courtships would have been uncommon.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Tolkien wrote to a reader of The Lord of the Rings explaining his intentions with regard to Éowyn and Faramir. The following are his comments, grouped by character. Eowyn: It is possible to love more than one person (of the other sex) at the same time, but in a different mode and intensity. I do not think that Eowyn's feelings for Aragorn really changed much; and when he was revealed as so lofty a figure , in descent and office, she was able to go on loving and admiring him. He was old, and that is not only a physical quality: when not accompanied by any physical decay age can be alarming or awe-inspiring. Also she was not herself ambitious in the true political sense. Though not a 'dry-nurse' in temper, she was also not really a soldier or 'amazon', but like many brave women was capable of great military gallantry at a crisis.
...Faramir. He was daunted by his father: not only in the ordinary way of a family with a stern proud father of great force of character, but as a Númenórean before the chief of the one surviving Númenórean state. He was motherless and sisterless (Eowyn was also motherless), and had a 'bossy' brother. He had been accustomed to giving way and not giving his own opinions air, while retaining a power of command among men, such as a man may obtain who is evidently personally courageous and decisive, but also fair-minded and scrupulously just, and very merciful. I think he understood Eowyn very well... [here Tolkien explains the importance of Faramir's rôle as Prince of Ithilien and Steward of Gondor in the early years of Aragorn's reign]

Criticism of the speed of the relationship or 'love' of Faramir and Eowyn. In my experience feelings and decisions may ripen very quickly (as measured by mere 'clock time', which is actually not justly applicable) in periods of great stress, and especially under the expectation of imminent death. And I do not think that persons of high estate and breeding need all the petty fencing and approaches in matters of 'love'. This tale does not deal with a period of 'Courtly Love' and its pretences; but with a culture more primitive (sc. less corrupt) and nobler.
Letter #244 (draft) - response to a lost criticism from an unnamed reader.
In case Tolkien is at all ambiguous here, in another letter he refuses to defend "the theme of mistaken love seen in Eowyn and her first love for Aragorn".

From Tolkien's comments above it becomes clear that Éowyn and Faramir are rather well-suited, with a lot in common. The various other aspects of their personalities and conditions are also extremely useful when trying to understand these two characters. I hope that it proves useful.

[Evisse the Blue]

My own convictions on the matter stand verified by the Professor ::feeling proud::

What I find interesting is his subtle criticism of Courtly Love (which is inevitable giving his general dislike for all things French). I have been thinking for a while about how feelings in such 'primitive cultures' are deeper and last longer compared to how fickle they are in more modern societies. But I don't want to stray from the topic, I may start a new topic on this when I get my thoughts in order.

[Bêthberry]

A fuller explication of Tolkien's view on "the romantic chivalric tradition" can be found in Letter 43, written to his son Michael 6-8 March, 1941.

Tolkien's criticism has to do with the falsification of the game, making Love and the Lady the central aspect of the relationship rather than God and tending towards also a failure to recognise women "as they are, as companions in shipwreck not guiding stars... To forget their desires, needs and temptations"(p. 49, Letters ed. Carpenter, 1995).

It might also be interesting to remember that the literary traditions which inspired Tolkien the most (although not exclusively of course)--the warrior epics of Beowulf and Maldon, the Scandinavian mythologies, the earlier mythological narratives--predated the medieval tradition of courtly love.

[ September 12, 2003: Message edited by: Bêthberry ]

[Gorwingel]

Oh my, I never thought that people actually added on to this topic. I created it long ago just to answer the original question, and after I got the answer, I just ignored it, and then thought that it was eventually deleated. But, gosh, I was wrong.

I do find it interesting when you do look at these two peoples histories and find that they do fit well together because of what has happened in their lives. Eowyn would have never fit well with Aragorn, because they never really shared the same experiences. Aragorn has had a very complex life for a man, he has also experienced much roaming and many changes. Eowyn has had a very stable life (except for the death of her parents) living here entire life in one local. Probably one of the things that initially attracted Eowyn to Aragorn was that he was exotic in a way. Just like the way many girls in the U.S. would be attracted to a guy from another country because he is different, new, and exciting.

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

He was old, and that is not only a physical quality: when not accompanied by any physical decay age can be alarming or awe-inspiring.

Cheese man, the thought of that scares me...um...witless smilies/wink.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

But certainly it is interesting to see that they had so much in common, and also his views on 'courtly love'...