Two cents: The Phantom Finance [Archive] - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

The Barrow-Wight

10-29-2002, 01:32 PM

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the following:

Two Cents Plain

In a letter received a few days ago, our correspondent Michael Raynor reported that he had spent the better part of two days at a conference with twenty-four accountants, and had put his time to good use by dreaming up questions for this column. On the off chance that I might somehow curry favor with some accountants and thus parlay my answers into a tax deduction, today I tackle another of Mr. Raynor's queries. "Why do people only contribute their 'two cents worth' when making a contribution to conversation or debate?", Mr. Raynor wonders, "Inflation aside, I don't think two cents ever really amounted to much purchasing power."

Speaking as someone who grew up a few short blocks from a first-rate penny- candy emporium, I beg to differ -- two cents per day, applied in the form of liquorice whips and gumballs, can buy you a lifetime of dental adventure.

In any case, the whole point of "my two cents worth," which originated in the late 19th century, is that it is a faux-modest, self-deprecating tactic used to disarm your audience before you announce your opinion. This is especially important in the event that your opinion turns out to be idiotic, in which case you can always claim that you warned your listeners in advance that your opinion was next to worthless. The phrase has long since become a cliche, and its use can be especially grating when the person announcing the arrival of his "two cents worth" is a doctor or lawyer (or a dentist, come to think of it) charging you two hundred dollars an hour. Don't get me started.

"Two cents" or "two-center" has been a slang synonym for "very cheap" since the middle of the 19th century, when the cheapest cigar available was literally a "two- center." The U.S. Treasury Department actually issued a two-cent coin in 1864, which was, incidentally, the first U.S. coin to bear the motto "In God We Trust." The government, evidently feeling frisky in a monetary sort of way, also issued coins in three-cent and twenty-cent denominations during the same period.

Found at http://www.word-detective.com/back-k.html.

Marileangorifurnimaluim

10-29-2002, 02:01 PM

Ironically, those two-cent coins are no doubt worth thousands now - if you can land one. Maybe we should scavenge through the 'olde' posts? smilies/wink.gif

-Maril

(My dear Rimbaud, I fear I neglected to run the time of your post through the mathematical calculations that convert my Pacific Standard Time (PST), to Barrow-downs Standard Time (BDST), to Greenwich Mean Time (GMT). Nor do I know if you work in advertising or not, where they keep beer in the fridge on shoots. smilies/wink.gif )

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

10-29-2002, 02:25 PM

I always thought that it was something of a devaluation when applied to my own opinions, the value of which begins at around £400 for an off-the-cuff remark about the weather to several billion in Sterling for a general solution to world poverty and distress.

Naturally I don't value any words of mine in cents, not only because two cents is too small an amount for any British bureau de change to consider exchanging, but also because that is too small an amount to justify the energy that I would expend in expressing myself. Clearly the wear and tear on my bronchial passages alone is worth at least fourpence ha'penny. When typing, the impact damage to my fingers and strain on my tendons comes to nearer half-a-crown and a pickled egg. *

Plus, as Rimbaud's legendary Foible-ometer has pointed out to us, it's really annoying, especially after eight or nine people beforehand have used precisely the same get-out for opinions ranging from the lucidly perceptive to the almost bovinely crass. There's no need for anyone's two Drachma, Sestertii, Doubloons or Cents, Euro or otherwise. We only want your opinions.

All cheques for my six-hundred and thirty-one pounds, four shillings and ninepence should be made payable to the Amon Rûdh Roof-Restoration and Drainage Fund. Thank-you for your generosity.

* All amounts given in Imperial currency. I'll be cold in my grave before I acknowledge decimalisation.

The Barrow-Wight

10-29-2002, 03:27 PM

This reminds me of the equally unnecessary but extremely overused 'faux-humility' statement pasted before most entries in any thread that revolves around a central creative theme (i.e. Middle-earth puns, Best/Worst Cast, Crazy Captions, etc.).

They each start with the obligatory "Here's my pathetic attempt", "I know this is terrible, but here goes", "Don't shoot me", or something similar. The self-deprecation usually seems insincere and a bit forced, so I find its (over)use somewhat annoying ,though I seem to recall being guilty of doing the same at least once on this forum. But no more! I have sworn off of it, and each of my posts is now preceded by an unwritten air of snooty superiority!

That's my two cents worth!

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: The Barrow-Wight ]

Gandalf_theGrey

10-29-2002, 03:34 PM

Barrow Wight:

Now that last bit of wisdom from you was worth far more than two bits! smilies/smile.gif

I firmly believe that people should say what they've got to say and let others decide whether to shoot arrows (or turn the speaker into something unnatural) on their own ... smilies/wink.gif

Gandalf the Grey

Maikadilwen

10-29-2002, 03:35 PM

Shame on you, BW. Tsk tsk... smilies/wink.gif

Rimbaud

10-29-2002, 03:43 PM

Maril, I give up. While I am still in the States, consider yourself on my bad side, until you have rectified my drinklessness. smilies/wink.gif

Wight, thank you for your full and interesting response... smilies/smile.gif You are right, I think it is the faux-humility that is the gist of what irks. If people don't believe that what they are saying is of much worth, then...

On a different note, Squatter, I'm not paying anything for the words of a man who believes he is Squatting on a hill that quite patently does not exist. Good day, Sir. Hurrumph. (Add token winking smiley here).

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Rimbaud ]

Gandalf_theGrey

10-29-2002, 03:49 PM

But Rimbaud,

Would a token winking smiley be worth more or less than two coins? And what of its comparative worth to a Tolkien winking smiley? smilies/smile.gif

Gandalf the Grey

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Gandalf_theGrey ]

Rimbaud

10-29-2002, 03:51 PM

Here are two cents for your pun, Gandy.

smilies/wink.gif smilies/wink.gif

Edit: I should mention that I have never been guilty of such egregious punnery.

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Rimbaud ]

Marileangorifurnimaluim

10-29-2002, 04:19 PM

*Maril smothers guffaw into what roughly approximates a cough* Puns, oh no, not you, Rimbaud!

Would you prefer that I ratify your drinklessness before you rectify it? smilies/biggrin.gif

-Maril

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

10-29-2002, 04:34 PM

Squatter, I'm not paying anything for the words of a man who believes he is Squatting on a hill that quite patently does not exist. Good day, Sir. Hurrumph.

Do you really think that bailiffs would fail to evict squatters from a hill that does exist? In Blair's Britain? Besides, I refuse to have my grip on sanity questioned by someone who can't even decide whether he thinks he's a French radical poet, a dancing frog or a superpiscine trout. Even your delusions have schizophrenia, Sir! I pronounce your disbelief to be a silly thing!

Susan Delgado

10-29-2002, 08:52 PM

What annoys me is when people announce that their post has ended. I don't see the logic of it...would we keep reading forever if we didn't see "Ok, I'm going to stop typing now" (and permutations thereof)? Of course not. They wouldn't do that in a vocal converstaion; why do it in a typed one?

edit: corrected "they're" in place of "their". I must be in need of one of those brain replacement operations. smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Susan Delgado ]

Birdland

10-29-2002, 11:59 PM

Eighteen posts on the topic of the origins and usages of that ol' linguistic chestnut "my two-cents worth"? It's times like these that make me wish that Tolkien's literary output had been a bit more "hefty".

That's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it!

HerenIstarion

10-30-2002, 12:31 AM

BTW, Squatter:

Main Entry: 2 squatter
Function: noun
Date: 1788
: one that squats : as a : one that settles on property without right or title or payment of rent b : one that settles on public land under government regulation with the purpose of acquiring title

which one applies to you?

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

10-30-2002, 04:18 AM

Obviously no government can lay claim to the ownership of Amon Rûdh, being that it has long since sunk beneath the waves. However there is no evidence in Tolkien's writings that the original Dwarven owners ever gave up their title to the place. Therefore what remains is theirs, and my own petty occupation of it constitutes squatting.

Being underwater, this hill is fairly damp, but no government will issue a drainage grant on the grounds that it falls under nobody's jurisdiction. As I said, all contributions gratefully received.

HerenIstarion

10-30-2002, 04:35 AM

Than, forgiving my purely scientific interest, which is tha main reason for this investigation, would you be so kind to further clarify which of the following describes you:

to squat :1 : to crouch close to the ground as if to escape observation <a hare squatting in the grass>
2 : to assume or maintain a position in which the body is supported on the feet and the knees are bent so that the buttocks rest on or near the heels

Thank you for your cooperation

Yours sincerely,

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

10-30-2002, 08:09 AM

Neither. Squatting (the physical postition) is extremely uncomfortable, and unnecessary for one of my modest stature. smilies/wink.gif

The Barrow-Wight

10-30-2002, 10:24 AM

This topic has been fun, but it has gone off-topic. Let's get back to the 'two-cents' and such or move on to new pastures.

Birdland

10-30-2002, 11:17 AM

Penny for your thoughts, B-W.

Elenna

10-30-2002, 02:05 PM

I think that two cents is an understatement or an overstatement for the worth of some posts. For example, many of you have imparted priceless bits of wisdom worth far more than two cents.

On the other hand, some posts and posters (not mentioning any names) put valueless messages up as a matter of routine. For example, quoting the entire above post, and then saying "I agree" or "lol" (I hate that).

So maybe 2 cents is an average of the valuable and the invaluable.

Belin

10-30-2002, 02:20 PM

My opinions are free to all. It seemed only appropriate, in view of the generous efforts of the Barrow-Wight and others, to follow their example and offer opinions completely on charity. Yes, I generate them purely for unselfish motives such as these, so consider yourselves lucky!

...not that I'm merely following the law of supply and demand or anything...

--Belin Ibaimendi

VanimaEdhel

11-01-2002, 06:25 PM

less experienced posters would want to 'hedge their bets'. They are expressing a natural timidity in speaking up where so many voices are strong and in that situation I think they should be encouraged to offer their thoughtful comments and contributions.

Hey! I'm not really "less experienced" and even I am afraid to put my two cents in. I'm afraid someone will follow my post with something along the lines of, "You MORON! How can you SAY that? You are unworthy of your over 1200 posts! You dippy little teen-age blonde! Go to the mall or something!" So, I think that the timidity of "new" posters also just extends to those of us that are younger in general (I am 15), because we have all of these more mature, experienced people all around us. They all have all of this experience, and we have none. I mean, I have only read The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, Lost Tales 1, and a few chapters of Lost Tales 2, so, when people start going into "HoME IX", I get kind of crosseyed and confused...then I get very quiet...

Bill Ferny

11-01-2002, 10:27 PM

Well, don't shoot me down, but here it goes..
Here my two cents on the whole thing:

On the other hand, some posts and posters (not mentioning any names) put valueless messages up as a matter of routine. For example, quoting the entire above post, and then saying "I agree" or "lol" (I hate that).

LOL! I agree.

Well, that's the end of my post, so you can stop reading now.

Gandalf_theGrey

11-01-2002, 11:10 PM

* applauds Bill Ferny, hoping that no one will say, "Don't applaud, just throw money." * smilies/smile.gif

Bill Ferny

11-06-2002, 09:33 AM

OK, I know, this makes four cents now. But there's something else that I really hate: When people throw up a post just to get that one hundred and first post.

Oh, wait... did I just do that?

Elenna

11-06-2002, 01:52 PM

Lol, Bill Ferny. I agree!

*Elenna rejoices in her hypocrisy*

VanimaEdhel

11-06-2002, 06:31 PM

When people throw up a post just to get that one hundred and first post.

Oh, wait... did I just do that?

Then, when you get as many posts as I have, you begin to not care at all anymore...or as many as Elenna has for that matter. Then why am I posting, you may ask? Well...okay: I'll stop while I'm ahead...

EDIT: oooh: that was my 1320th post...

[ November 06, 2002: Message edited by: VanimaEdhel ]

Marileangorifurnimaluim

11-07-2002, 02:17 AM

You know what's a bummer? When you look down and realize that for your glorious 1,000th post, all you did was post a one-word answer to some quiz. And got it wrong to boot.

-Maril

HerenIstarion

11-07-2002, 02:52 AM

ÇâÖ ÂÏÔ ÌÄ ÉÍÔÒÉÂÖÄÃ, ÀÒÉË, Õ`Ì ÂÏÉÍÂ ÔÏ ÝäÄÝÊ ÏÖÔ ßäÀÔ ÌÚ Ê''Ôä ÐÏÓÔ ßÀÓ ÀÁÏÖÔ :0

edit: above is supposed to read as:

You got me intrigued, maril, I’m going to check out what my 1000th post was about smilies/smile.gif

It seems I have accidentally switched to different keyboard layout while posting

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: HerenIstarion ]

Marileangorifurnimaluim

11-07-2002, 03:10 AM

Heren, let me echo the Barrow-wight's earlier comment to Rimbaud here: Huh?

(Is my computer missing those fonts?)

-Maril

HerenIstarion

11-07-2002, 06:56 AM

heh, I've found it. And you know what? It's indeed in Quotes subforum, though answer given was correct.

HerenIstarion's 1000th post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000050&p=2)

BTW, I have an idea. There may be opened a thread for 1000th posts (for I was lucky mine occured in EzBoard times, for UBB is not fixing post numbers and I would have been unable to find it otherwise). All people reaching this milestone should post there. Kind of celebrating party. smilies/smile.gif

well, and not to be accused of straying off topic, I'll say that was my tuppence smilies/tongue.gif

Elenna

11-07-2002, 08:37 AM

Wow, that was deep, HI. I think I marked my 1000th post. I think I'll go see if I can find it.

Bêthberry

11-07-2002, 09:14 AM

Without in any way casting aspersions on the worth of the 1000th post (or their predecessors) of Maril, H-I, or Elenna, perhaps it is not inappropriate, in light of the inundation of useless posts under which we groan, to recall Treebeard's explanation of Entish, for I would hate to think that this discussion would be misconstrued as inciting a hasty rash of agglomerating posts:

"[Entish] is a lovely language,... [but] we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to."

And I would hope that all can see this post is written in full homage to Entish, wherein "it takes a very long time to say anything." smilies/wink.gif

Bethberry

Rimbaud

11-07-2002, 09:35 AM

*Rimbaud declares bankruptcy on behalf of the 'Finance' thread*

VanimaEdhel

11-07-2002, 06:07 PM

Well, I must have been an Ent in my past life because boy can I streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch anything I'm saying out. Just be glad I did that without stretching out the screen smilies/wink.gif (I wouldn't do that: I hate it when people post words so long it stretches the screen).

No, this hasn't jetted off-topic...

Elenna

11-07-2002, 06:54 PM

Grr - still can't find that 1000th post. Reward offered!

Marileangorifurnimaluim

11-07-2002, 09:04 PM

Is the reward - two cents?

I'm in the mon-ey, I'm in the mon-ey! Here it is:

Elenna's 1000th post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=16&t=000147&p=5#000194)

Since it was recent I combed through your 'view recent posts,' did a little math, and let my fingers do the walking in the Cirith Ungol discussion thread. I'll take that in cash, please.

-Maril smilies/biggrin.gif

Mintyztwin

11-07-2002, 09:05 PM

I am still confused to what this thread is exactly about. And I even read it carefully!!! But I did have a reply to what somebody said about people apoligizing for what they say. (Which I do all the time. Heh.)

"No one likes to go out on a limb without a safety line." Even if I think it's hilarious, there is a big chance lots of people don't. ('Specially considering my sense of humor smilies/biggrin.gif ) So by adding a disclaimer, such as "Lame!" or whatever, is a safety line. Or several.

If I made anyone mad I'm so sorry! This post was so lame! smilies/tongue.gif smilies/wink.gif

BTW (I'll try not to disclaim myself anymore.)

HerenIstarion

11-08-2002, 01:42 AM

WELL,
Such a disclaimer may be used as a preliminary preparation for a start. I mean, usually I have no problem with the whole bulk of a thread, but one needs something to clutch attention of supposed reader-to-be. Though, being just very modest as I am, I never make an apology in the beginning smilies/tongue.gif , but use the word 'well' smilies/wink.gif (Excellent tool, may be used in every post, boo)

Susan Delgado

11-08-2002, 01:56 AM

Well,
That's a good way to start a post, HI. It allows the reader to gather his or her thoughts before plunging in. smilies/smile.gif

My 1000th post was a great disappointment at the time (and still is)

Susan's 1000th post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=16&t=000098&p=5)

It's the doubled one in the middle. The second one was the important one. I was going to mark it specially, but when I posted the 999th, the site hiccuped and I ended up with two of the same post. Normally I'd have deleted the second as redundant, but I left it because it was my 1000th, annoying or not.

VanimaEdhel

11-08-2002, 06:00 PM

Mari: I'll give you $0.02 and a big Elfy hug if you can find mine...

Marileangorifurnimaluim

11-22-2002, 02:24 PM

Vanima, I'm afraid I won't be able to. It was 500 posts ago for you. I guess I'll have to forego my Elfy hug.

Rimbaud, if you would like to exercize your cringing muscles, get into practice for the holidays, read the 'Arrogance of the Rings' thread in the Movie section. The pennies are piling up at an appalling rate. It has to be read to be believed.

I've gathered some of those paper tubes from the bank. Penny rolls, anyone?

-Maril

Rimbaud

11-22-2002, 04:22 PM

Maril,

Yes, a grim display. Just something that irks me, but one of many. smilies/smile.gif Especially since many of the people claiming the worthless nature of there own comments are not of humble disposition...

~Rimbaud

HerenIstarion

07-07-2004, 04:38 AM

two cents tuppenced in, if I'm allowed to coin an expression...

Kuruharan

07-11-2004, 04:49 PM

I'd noticed that this habit had been making a bit of an unfortunate comeback in some places.

Earendilyon

11-06-2004, 03:06 PM

I've sometimes the feeling this addition of 'just my 2 cents' (or a variation on it) is a fake humility. The writer seems to think (hope) that people will think that his/her post isn't that worthless at all, but worth the read. Maybe they even hope to be praised for their post and their supposed humility, I don't know. So, it's not just this faux humilité but rather a hidden query for praise.

Lindolirian

11-06-2004, 11:01 PM

Ah! How I wish I had seen this thread earlier!
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=357156&postcount=5 :D

THE Ka

11-21-2004, 06:46 PM

I suppose I was the only person who heard that *hic!* at the end of Rimbaud's post?

*Maril picks up an empty beer bottle from the collection rolling about Rim's feet. Tsk-tsk, frogs just can't hold their liquor (unlike the French)...*

What's wrong with a philosophical drunk? ok, i might be wrong but, at least they mean to make a point... ;)

THE Ka

11-21-2004, 06:52 PM

Surprisingly, i think i know what this author is trying to point out. If i am right in any sense, the author wishes to make a connection between first, 'greed' second, 'money, 'wealth' (of a material reference) and three, their role within the lord of the rings? Or, do they wish to connect this with our world?

It was a guess, but at least I tried. :cool:

~Pondering Ka~

Rimbaud

11-23-2004, 04:17 AM

Actually, now this has resurfaced, I have seen some pretty grim degradations based on this financial theme. I don't want anyone's cents! (Esopecially at the current exchange rate). I might value an opinion, or even an idea. But not metaphysical money.

As BW has said above somewhere, this also goes for other get-out clauses, such as 'I'm really tired today, so I'll just post this anyway...'.

~Rimbaud the Truculent

Kuruharan

02-04-2005, 08:37 AM

I'm starting to see this habit crop up again.

I hope in my own little way to pour some water on that fire...

peral

02-04-2005, 07:20 PM

Too intellectual (?) for me. I shall not even bother to pretend that I am not thoroughly and utterly bamboozled

Formendacil

02-04-2005, 08:27 PM

I almost have to wonder if I'm not responsible for this thread's current active status. Right before it got bounced back to the top of the forum in the last few days, I ended a post with, what else?, something about my "2 cents worth".

Of course, that might be somewhat too arrogant of me to think that, so I really ought to counter with a dose of "humility" and end this post now.

Just my 2 cents worth! ;)

Mithalwen

02-06-2005, 02:50 PM

I am surprised that noone has yet mentioned the British equivalent - not as HI assumes "tuppence" but "ten pennorth" which appears to come from wartime food rationing (WW1), but also in my extreme youth would buy you a portion of chips.....

So at current exchange rates, does this mean that the contributions of UK resident downers are almost 20 times more valuable than those of their US counterparts? :p And well if we compare with Australian, NZ, Canadian and Singaporean cents ... well the situation gets better ..or worse ...

Kuruharan

02-06-2005, 10:11 PM

What will the expression become if you go to the euro?

ohtatyaro

02-07-2005, 01:08 AM

What will the expression become if you go to the euro

My two eurocents in?

Kuruharan

02-07-2005, 07:52 AM

*sigh* That just does not have the same ring to it...

Sophia the Thunder Mistress

02-08-2005, 10:27 PM

Ran across a post today in which "IMO" was used, not once, not twice, but three times. We know it's your opinion. Nobody's going to be all that offended, state your opinions with some confidence.

Signed,

Sophia the Cranky Storming Lady

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-08-2005, 10:53 PM

That's better than IMHO, for as H-I said it:

IMO (without H inside, of course, for what is the worth of having humble opinion?) (H-I)

Mithalwen

02-09-2005, 12:26 PM

What will the expression become if you go to the euro?

Well that is quite a big "If" but considering the inflation in many of the Euroland countries ....... it will probably be "my eurosworth" ...... in reality, I imagine we will still say ten pennorth ..... for a long time. After all my father took a good 25 years to adapt to decimal currency.

Also I expect that people would start to refer to euros as quids.... and cents as pence regardless of what it says on the coins...especially since we use "plastic money" increasingly. Of course children who do use coins and have never known anything else will look at there elders either as hopelessly backward or amusingly quaint...... but then there is always something which will inspire these opinions ....so no change there :P