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HerenIstarion
11-21-2000, 10:27 AM
Wight
Posts: 213

Let us discuss this masterpiece of JRRT's. which is indeed my favorite. I reread it regularly, though I doubt I understood it completely (every time I discover something new, the point I missed before). It would be great to learn what all of you people have to say about that wonderful story.


...but what they are really like, and what lies beyond them, only those can say who have climbed them...

lindil
11-25-2000, 08:59 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 144</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Smith of Wootton Major

I love Smith the most deeply written and beautiful of all of JRRT's shorts [w/ a niggle after that] not having read Aotrou and Itroun [sp].
It caputures the mature beauty of his writings and hints at the dunedain/eldarin relationships that must have occured in the 2-4 th ages but to which we are told relatively little.[we are shown in ME mostly nobles interacting

The king coming into the village unrecognized and scorned by mostshows to me the depth to which Christ had penetrated his thinking.
And the need [which Fantasy and myth and true religion provide] to have the connection w/ truth and beauty renewed and rediscoverred by each generation.
I especially love the parts about his singing and the smithwork.
I also seriously contemplated using the picture of Alf w/ the extremely long knife about to cut the 24 year cake as a logo for my knife sharpening business!
lindil

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HerenIstarion
11-25-2000, 12:10 PM
Wight
Posts: 222

An answer at last, thanks Eru! ;)

No doubt some who deserved to be asked were overlooked, and some who did not were invited by mistake; for that is the way of things, however careful those who arrange such matters may try to be

This sentence caused a strong feeling of protest in me when I first read a story. Still I was 12 than, and my opinion changed since.

By morn, when I'm usually agonizing before I get near the coffey-pot I try to remember following phrase:

It reminds me of Faery' he heard himself say' but in Faery the people sing too

Not that I was ever able to force myself to sing before my coffey, but it really makes me feel better every time :smokin:

...but what they are really like, and what lies beyond them, only those can say who have climbed them.

Mithadan
11-25-2000, 11:33 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 349</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Smith of Wootton Major

Sorry H.I. I read your post the day you made it but didn't have time to respond. Always loved Smith, more so than Farmer Giles. It now reminds me of the Road to the Cottage of Lost Play in BoLT 1. Does anyone think either Smith or Farmer Giles are part of the same Legendarium as LoTR, etc.?

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

lindil
11-26-2000, 08:21 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 149</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Smith of Wootton Major

Greetings Mithadan,
Thanks for the rewelcome [although I fear this wight will not be haunting the downs long this next couple of seasons] ,
I almost mentioned something about the sense of continuity w/ ME that is latant in Smith of WM, as if it is some 5th or 6th age story, I won't pretend there are not impossibilities in this, but the spirit of it is the same, and I think you hit the nail on the head w/ theeriol-aelfwine/cottage of lost play connection. I would go so far as to say that smith might have been JRRT's way ofsalvaging those elements he held dear in Lost tales about the English Myth and commoners having access to elvendom and thus a rememberance of the wonderous that is possible in everday life if one is willing and able to make journeys into territory that simply is not on the maps of most folks' reality .

I feel there is a thread running through Farmer Giles [ all sense of the wonderous seems to be gone even though there are still magic swords and dragons [and primitive guns!] and then to Leaf by Niggle where the outside world [ours or a communist style one] is devoid of the wonder of Elvenhome except in
stray peices of art. The world of Noggle seems hopelessly polarized into dull practicalists and ineffective idealists; magic [another word I try and avoid] or a sense of childlike wonder has disappeared from everyday life as seen in Niggle not being able to share w/ love with his curmudgony neighbor and Parish{?} being unable to see the beauty peeping through his neighbors Magnum Opus.

Tolkien seems to see this duality which has become nearly crystallized in modern times as being only capable of cure in Paradise.

I wonder if 'What Dreams May Come &quot; was inspired by Leaf [sans reincarnation]?
I was certainly reminded of it, mountains trees and all.

Well that has exhausted the water in that well for me - unless there was to be an elaboration on how to bring wonder into daily life w/out becoming an ineffectual diletante [ but as I am still working on that one I await the wisdom of others: ) .
Lindil


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HerenIstarion
11-26-2000, 09:54 AM
Wight
Posts: 224


The world of Niggle seems hopelessly polarized into dull practicalists and ineffective idealists; magic [another word I try and avoid] or a sense of childlike wonder has disappeared from everyday life as seen in Niggle not being able to share w/ love with his curmudgony neighbor and Parish{?} being unable to see the beauty peeping through his neighbors Magnum Opus.

In Leaf there is more of Christianity than of Faery, seemingly. It's shown that Niggle-Parish neighbourhood is planned by somebody (say Voices, but those are rather representations of Justice and Mercy, or maybe Angels of those?) to teach them both an acceptance, which gives fruit in the end after all. :)

...but what they are really like, and what lies beyond them, only those can say who have climbed them.

lindil
04-01-2001, 10:47 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
Posts: 569</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Smith of Wootton Major


[warning spoiler ahead]

I recently read smith again and am struck by the simple beauty of it.
An elven foreshadowing of Christ in some ways.
An Elf-King coming among mortals for years for the express purpose of maintaing a spiritual ferment if you will.


When Smith realizes Alf is he King his line is piercingly beautiful.
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> &quot; The smith looked long at Alf, then suddenly he bowed low.'I understand at last , sir' he siad. 'You have done us too much honour'.&quot;<hr></blockquote>

Lindil is oft found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowdowns and working on a new Elven/Christian discussion board<a href="http://beta.ezboard.com/bosanwekenta" >Osanwe-Kenta</a> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 4/2/01 12:51:06 am

HerenIstarion
08-29-2002, 12:47 AM
Stand up an walk, ye older thread

(I like poking in the dust, :rolleyes: )

Estelyn Telcontar
08-29-2002, 02:25 AM
Thanks for bringing this up, HerenIstarion! It's interesting to read the old discussion, though we are concentrating more on the autobiographical aspects of the story in the current thread.