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red
04-22-2001, 07:45 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mischief
Posts: 249</TD><TD><img src=http://www.bestanimations.com/Science/Biology/DNA/DNA-02.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
In the Shadow of the Past, Gandalf said that Sauron first believed the One Ring was destroyed by the Elves. But how could he have believed that since he put so much power into it? When it finally WAS destroyed, he had no doubt. I don't understand how he could have been mistaken.

-rd

<blockquote><font size=2>

"He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer."</p>

-A Short Rest, The Hobbit</p></blockquote></p>

burrahobbit
04-22-2001, 09:22 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hidden Spirit
Posts: 754</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: The One Ring

The ring had never been destroyed before, he didn't know what it would be like. But a Drg from the first age did. Hmm, oh well.

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

HerenIstarion
04-23-2001, 06:13 AM
When the Ring was cut off his hand at first, Sauron diminished, but the Ring was not destroed and he found some strengh to rebuild himself a housing body, and wasted another great amount of his inherent power in the effort.

It seems to me that the power left in his person after final rehousing was less that that of the Ring, and he could not preserve positive balance, some point at the scale, beneath which it was impossible to remain incarnate or perform incarnation, the balance convenient to preserve (or regain) bodily form, (the thing that he managed in the Akkalabeth and after the first loss of the Ring), if the Ring was destroyed.

Or, to put it other way round - when the Ring was cut off, he diminished and might have thought that to be the effect of the Ring-destruction. He managed to rebuild himself once again, but in that effort, he spent some more of his power, and after that last rebuilding the Ring-destruction became the deadly peril for him

Pengolodh
04-23-2001, 06:23 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: The One Ring

IMO, it is unexplainable and a good question. I have yet to see anyone answer this contradiction properly, on any board that I have visited.

In Letters of Tolkien, Tolkien says that though lost from him, Sauron was always in report with the Ring and &quot;could draw from it&quot;. This is contradicted by what is in the LoTR, but it does validate the original thread starters question a lot.

I do not know why he was unaware of it and I suspect the Prof from making a slip-up <img src=wink.gif ALT=";)">

Cheers

"In those days the Noldor still roamed the Hither Lands, Mightiest among the Children of Iluvatar, fair and tall and their beautiful voices were still heard by mere mortals"</p>

Meriadoc61
04-23-2001, 06:45 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 11</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> The One Ring

I believe this is one of the instances where the professor made a mistake. In the prologue he himself acknowledges mistakes, some minor, and some not so minor, but admits he does not feel compelled to change them.

Our computer age makes me more and more respectful and humbled to all of the great minds in the past who have written such great works bereft of our technology, and with as few mistakes as there are.

</p>

Mithadan
04-30-2001, 01:48 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist
Posts: 842</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: The One Ring

It may be that Sauron believed he had recovered his strength without the Ring being in existence and thus not realized his error until later. Or Gandalf may have been speculating that Sauron thought it had been destroyed.

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

obloquy
04-30-2001, 04:41 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
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Sauron and his Ring

When Sauron lost his ring he could no longer use all the power he had invested in it, right? I think it's possible that he assumed that that was as bad as it would get, so to speak. That when the Ring was destroyed, he would only lose as much power as was wrought into it, and thus wouldn't know the difference between simply being lost forever or destroyed. If this is the case, when he lost it, he most likely would've assumed that the Elves would do what would inflict most damage to him -- destroy it.

I know that's only really a half-point, but I'm having trouble getting my thoughts into text. Do you understand what I'm saying? I also haven't read the majority of HoME or UT, so correct me if anything I've said is in direct contradiction to written material.

</p>

Mithadan
04-30-2001, 06:58 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist
Posts: 844</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Sauron and his Ring

Welcome to the Downs Obloquy! Your post mirrors my opinion. One of JRRT's letters is cited above as suggesting a contrary position.

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

obloquy
04-30-2001, 09:25 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 4</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Sauron and his Ring

Hmm. I guess I missed that post the first time through.

However, I think that although we as readers know that Sauron could draw upon the Ring's power even when he didn't have it, Gandalf couldn't be expected to know. Perhaps Saruman learned such in his studies, which might be why he suspected the Ring was still in existance.

Remember that nobody was sure what would happen when the Ring was destroyed -- as far as I recall -- just that that was the only appropriate thing to do with it. Again, possibly why Saruman suspected it wasn't destroyed...because he alone knew what would've happened to Sauron.

Then again, I'm the type to try to rationalize away discrepancies in Tolkien's work. I do the same with movies I really like. <img src=wink.gif ALT=";)">

-deimos

</p>

Nostie
01-12-2003, 08:38 PM
My friend asked me this, and I had no idea...
If Sauron was a huge eyeball, what would he do with the ring if he got it? smilies/confused.gif he has no fingers...wear it as a 'crown' on top of the eyeball?? smilies/biggrin.gif

doug*platypus
01-13-2003, 04:27 AM
A fair question, for sure. The power of the Ring is discussed here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002674) among other places. It grows in power as it nears Orodruin, where it was forged (there's no place like home), and It also has the ability to influence someone who is not wearing It, which can be seen in particular in Frodo and Gollum. Also Bilbo, whose youthful vigour continues after the Ring has left him, but only up until It is destroyed.

It's very likely that once the Ring was near both himself and Mt. Doom, Sauron would be able to tap into its power and assume a bodily form again. He is probably only disembodied because he does not have all of his power, much of which is in the Ring.

I've been wanting to say this for a long time by the way: the Big Red Eye thing is really, really dumb. He's a terrible villain. Saruman, Shelob and Morgoth were all much scarier. So was Gollum. Sauron Schmauron.

doug*platypus
01-13-2003, 05:07 AM
Forgive me, O Dark One!! I take it all back! These two threads contain arguments for the fact that Sauron did have a body at the time of the War of the Ring. I'm glad I found that out before the next movie comes out (whoopsie!)

Sauron - Physical Form? (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001972)

Did Sauron leave Barad-Dr? (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001193)