What's in a Name?

[Arathiriel]

Can someone tell me about how Elves name their children?

I heard or read somewhere that the father will give a child a name in that has part of his own in someway. I have also heard that later their mother will give the child another name that is taken from their personality or their fate...

Now does the child keep both names, with the name given by their mother becoming their first name and the name given by their father becoming their surname?

Or does it work some other way?

Sorry if this is not worded very well...

[ July 14, 2002: Message edited by: Arathiriel ]

[littlemanpoet]

I don't know anything about this, but I hope somebody can give Alathiriel a reply with some information. Sure would be nice....

[Eruwen]

Well, sorry Arathiriel, I don't really know that much about Elves right now. I'm still in the middle of reading the Sim. I just kinda wanted to let you know, that quote you have in your signature is really cool. And sad really cause it takes me back to the Grey Havens. But sorry I couldn't have been much help. smilies/frown.gif Even though you do have a really good point in that question.

DOES anyone know? Cause I would like to find out about that too.

[Arathiriel]

Eruwen:

Hi! I just began to read the Silmarillion so I understand...

I am just getting to the part where the Elves first come into being so I have quite a ways to go I would imagine before perhaps my question is answered or not...

Well it's great to read about where each of the races came from: The Elves, The race of Men, and the Dwarves. I am hoping to also find out more about the Hobbits as they are my second favorite race next to the Eldar race!

Well back to the Silm! smilies/wink.gif

[Fingolfin of the Noldor]

Tolkien goes into the Naming of the Eldar in THe laws and Customs of the Eldar pg 214-17 of Morgoth's Ring. Some interesting notes:
the father-name was the first name and was announced at the first ceremony called the Essecarme(Name-making)
-this name stood first and remained 'unaltered'
among the Noldor there was later another ceremoney called the Essecilme(Name-choosing)
-there was no fixed date for this but it could not take place before the child was deemed capable of lamatyave(of individual pleasure in the sounds and form of words) which seldom occured before the 7th year
-this name was called the "second-name"
the father-name and choosen-name were 'true-names' not nicknames the father-name being public the choosen being private
-private not secret, the choosen-name was regarded as personal property which could not be used without leave
-a new name choosen-name could be choosen but it would not replace the former both becoming a part of the 'full-title' of any Noldo¹
no specific time is given for the giving of a mother-name or really any of the other given-names
-many mother mother names were names of 'insight'/'foresight' in regard to their child
-the mother-names, unlike other 'given-names', were often granted special authority and regarded as 'true names' and "public not private if placed (as was sometimes done) immediately after the father-name."


¹The 'full title' of a Noldo was the sequence of all the names that had been acquired in the course of life

[ July 16, 2002: Message edited by: Fingolfin of the Noldor ]

[ July 19, 2002: Message edited by: Fingolfin of the Noldor ]

[Yerniel Vénea]

Ok, yeah that was confusing to me and I know what you were talking about! Here, go to this site: http://www.annalsofarda.dk/annals-of-arda/Misc/Misc-naming.htm
It helped me understand the naming process!

[Fingolfin of the Noldor]

I am confused smilies/confused.gif What may I ask is so confusing about my summary post above? I attempted to succinctly summarize the entry as to the Naming of the Elves as presented in the Laws and Customs of the Eldar. Where exactly did I mess up, may I ask?

[piosenniel]

Fingolfin

I think Yerniel Vénea was simply referring to the naming process as also being confusing to her and is offering an additional reference for Arathiriel to use.

Your post was clear and understandable.

[Bêthberry]

Thanks, Fingolfin, for the explanation and, even better, the Tolkien source. The extent of your knowledge of Tolkien always astounds and impresses me.

Bethberry

[Arathiriel]

You know I have read both postings about the Father-name as well as the Mother-name and I still a little confused about certain aspects of how the Noldor named their children...

I think it's the entire issue of the public/private names that is throwing me off BIG time!

smilies/tongue.gif <font color="orange">

[ July 19, 2002: Message edited by: Arathiriel ]

[The Silver-shod Muse]

It was a great summary/explanation Fingolfin! smilies/wink.gif . All these naming ceremonies sound something like the Native American methods. Personally, I would love to choose my own name...

[Sarin Elfarmour]

if elves do name their children useing parts of their own names the we might not know it because of different root words meaning the same thing, also Feanor's other name was Curufinwe, which has "finwe" from his father and Curufin was Feanor's son so a person's real name might be hidden by their other names