Ent-Wives

[xMattx]

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but I was wondering if any of the lost tales have anything about the Ent-wives, it seems like there wasn't any closure in The Lord of The Rings on this topic.

[Eldar14]

I'm not sure, but I just had to say that I found it kind of disturbing that the quote on the top of my screen when I read that was a Treebeard quote. smilies/smile.gif

[Finwe]

Does anyone think that the walking Elm tree mentioned by Sam as ahving been seen by his cousin Hal in Chapter 2 of FOTR could av been an Entwife. After all Treebeard does imply later that he reckons the Entwives would love the Shire.

[Mithadan]

Welcome to the Downs, Matt and Finwe. Lost Tales does not mention the Ents or the Entwives. The Ents were conceived as JRRT was writing LoTR about 25 years after he had written what is now known as the Lost Tales.

[Elenhin]

Originally posted by finwe:
<STRONG>Does anyone think that the walking Elm tree mentioned by Sam as ahving been seen by his cousin Hal in Chapter 2 of FOTR could av been an Entwife.</STRONG>
I very much doubt that. We know that over time Ents changed to resemble those trees they were closest to, and that the walking tree was supposed to be an Elm tree. We also know that the Entwives were gardeners (or farmers) and not tree-shepherds. It's logical to assume that just like the males of their species, the Entwives would change to resemble the things they care for - and therefore they would resemble garden-plants, not elm trees.

The theory you suggest is very popular though.

[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: Elenhin ]

[Mithadan]

From Treebeard's description, I think that Entwives likely resembled fruit trees rather than garden plants.

[onewhitetree]

IF the aforementioned sighting by Sam's cousin is in fact not an Entwife, what is it?

[Mithadan]

A tree? smilies/wink.gif

[Mister Underhill]

A very large shrub?

[onewhitetree]

Somehow, I'm not convinced!!!

You two are pros; you're going to have to do better than that.

[Mithadan]

I'm not convinced either! At best, Sam's report falls into JRRT's "enigma" category. At worst, Sandyman was right and Sam's cousin had taken too much holiday cheer.

[amyrlis]

I'm re-reading The Fellowship now and recently went through the part where the Hobbits embark into the old Forest. Merry speaks of a time when the trees "planted themselves" right up against the hedge, in light of the hobbits' attempts to keep them back. So, the hobbits, um, let me see if I can remember correctly - the hobbits hewed down all the trees within a certain distance of the fence and burned them in a big bonfire. The bonfire glade never grew trees in it again. Anyway, could that row of trees that planted itself up against the hedge have been Ent-wives? How sad if they liked the Shire and wanted to be as close to it as they could get, but met their tragic fate instead. Well, just throwing that out as a thought.

[Sharkû]

The most likely answer to both the walking tree Hal saw and the trees that issued forth from the Old Forest is that they, since they are very ancient specimens, were among those tress which are still aware of the mission Yavanna gave them, to protect the olvar, the rooted beings, from the kelvar, the animals and humanoids (apparently, if need arises, also by force).
Or they might simply be trees that have grown 'Entish' over the years, and resemble Huorns now, as was probably the case with such trees as Old Man Willow (notice how his/its (?) age is again eponymous) or some in Fangorn forest.

[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Sharku ]

[Orald]

A curse upon you Sharku, you stumbled onto what I was about to say. Now I must change it, because I am going to say something.

Trees are always falling in and out of sleep. Becoming more entish or more treeish. This is why I don't feel to sorry for The ents, because as long as there are trees, there should be some ents. Remember when the hedge attacked the Shire? Maybe it was just a group of Hourns that had their slumber disturbed by some hobbits.

[Sharkû]

Yup, see above.
Just what I said smilies/evil.gif

[Finwe]

What about if you consider the possibility that Goldberry was intended to be Yavanna?
After all their descriptions are quite similiar.<Taken from a Gene Hargrove essay>

In another guise Yavanna is described as a tree

... crowned with the sun; and from all its branches there spilled a golden dew upon the barren earth... but the roots of the Tree were in the waters of Ulmo, and the winds of Manwe spoke in its leaves. (Silmarillion, p 21)

Compare this with the description of Goldberry:

... her hair was flying loose, and as it caught the sun it shone and shimmered. A light like the glint of water on dewy grass flashed under her feet as she danced. (Fellowship, p 155)



Tolkien also mentioned that the Entwives were "loyal" to Goldberry whil the Ents followed Olwe.
Surely this would open the possibility of the Entwives following Goldberry to the shire.

[Finwe]

BTW
Quote from a Gene Hargrove essay, in case any1 thinks I'm stealing

[Elenhin]

Well... unless Yavanna is cheating on Aule (which I strongly doubt), then Goldberry can't be Yavanna. Tom Bombadil doesn't exactly look like Aule to me.

[Kin-strife]

And how exactly does Aule look in the third age? It's a comon enough theory that Tom was Aule at that time studying hobbits due to his fondness of all the Eruhinì. It's quite natural that if he wished to meet and greet with hobbit folk he would assume an image familiar to them.

[Sharkû]

Look for a list of forum threads on Tom here (http://www.barrowdowns.com/Themes_Bombadil.asp?Size=). Practically wherever the Tom=Aule theory is mentioned there it is proved flawed.

[Elrian]

Bombadil wasn't a craftsman, as Aule was. Yavannah was never said to have a mother. Goldberry was the River Woman's daughter, if her mother were Maia she'd have been a Maia of Ulmo. Didn't the forest stretch all the way across the land in the first and possibly the second age? And weren't the Ent wives supposed to have occupied what was known as the Brown Lands across the River from Fangorn?

[Kin-strife]

Well when you put it that way. smilies/wink.gif

[Halbarad]

What if the elm tree was an ent searching for them. Treebeard said to Pippin that they went searching far and wide for them. OR, it could have been an ent that stayed with the Huorns in the Old Forest, it being a remnant of the greater forest. The entwives are either dead or gone to the East, which is outside the realms of LoTR

[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: Halbarad ]

[old_man_willow]

i think that maybe somewhere there is a description of where the entwives are.. but mainly i think they are there to play with peoples minds. you know something to wonder about but never know

[Kin-strife]

Like good old Tomo

[Halbarad]

Originally posted by old_man_willow:
<STRONG>i think that maybe somewhere there is a description of where the entwives are.. but mainly i think they are there to play with peoples minds. you know something to wonder about but never know</STRONG>

That's what makes it so cool

[Mhoram]

In The Wight Rider when Gandalf tells Aragorn and Co. about Treebeard, Aragorn is shocked that they really exist. Now, consider all the rangers that were on the borders of the shire around the time Hal saw his Tree-man. Could there have been an Ent, let alone Ents, be they male or female without a ranger having seen one? And anything a ranger had seen would have been reported to their leader.

[Noxomanus]

It might be interesting to know that in the Ent/Entwive song they're singing about going west.So maybe the Entwives (and possibly some Ents too) fled to Valinor. This could explain why the possible "Shire Ent/Entwive" was there,it might have been going to the Grey Havens. Ents don't seem to be mortal,do they?