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sauron uk
08-15-2001, 11:45 AM
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Who were the two blue messengers, members of the order of istari. From the book of unfinished tales I can gather the following -

'Of the Blue little was known in the West, and they had no names save 'Ithryn Luin', the Blue Wizards, for they passed into the west with Curunir (saruman), but they never returned, and whether they remained in the East, pursuing there the purposes for which they were sent; or perished, or as some hold were ensnared by Sauron and became his servants, it is not known'.

The passage goes on to mention that it was not impossible for them to be corrupted. Later, the book tells that the istari were most likely to be maiar. And the maiar that came during the first age to abroad were turned into the surface of Morgoth. Now, if the Istari were Maiar, then the Blue Wizards could have become Balrogs, corrupted Maiar.

</p>

Inziladun
08-15-2001, 01:59 PM
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: The Blues Brothers, or of the Blue Wizards.

The Balrogs were believed to be Maiar corrupted to the service of Morgoth early on.The only Balrog remaining in
Middle Earth after the War of Wrath is apparently the one in Moria. In Letters number 144:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> The Balrogs....were primeval spirits of destroying fire, chief servants of the primeval Dark Power of the First Age. They were supposed to have all been destroyed in the overthrow of Thangorodrim, his fortess in the North. But...one had escaped and taken refuge under the mountains of Hithaeglin (The Misty Mountains).<hr></blockquote>
There is no mention of any more balrogs being 'born' after the fall of Morgoth.

And by the way, welcome!

Those who will defend authority against rebellion must not themselves rebel. </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000125>Inziladun</A> at: 8/15/01 4:00:12 pm

Voronwe
08-15-2001, 02:05 PM
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: The Blues Brothers, or of the Blue Wizards.

The blue wizards, though they may have been (and probably were) corrupted by evil eventually, were certainly not Balrogs. Balrogs were Maiar, but they were also spirits of fire, made dark and terrible by their corruption. The Blue wizards almost certainly couldn't have been anything like this. They were uncorrupted at least until their arrival in Middle Earth during the third age.

In fact, we know very little about the Blue Wizards; it seems to be one of those things that Tolkien left open-ended. I believe Tolkien did say that he suspected they failed, like Saruman but in different ways, and that they might have founded cults in the East that outlasted Sauron.


-Voronw
<font size="2">Down the sunlit breath of Day's fiery death
He sped from Westerland.</p>

Anshu son of Gloin
08-18-2001, 07:25 PM
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: The Blues Brothers, or of the Blue Wizards.

Nope I think that they had nothing to do with anything that happened in the war of the jewels or the ring

Anshu son of Gloin
<font face="Dwarf Runes">Anshu son of Gloin Lord of http://pub86.ezboard.com/bthemiddleearth613Khazad-Dum</a>
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RyAN the Pure Heart
10-27-2001, 10:25 PM
as i recall the istari were sent to stop sauron. They were easily sidetracked however.

Gandalf: did his job smilies/wink.gif
Radagast: got too in close to the birds and, in the end probabaly removed himself from all relations with humaniods(for lack of a better term)
Sarumen: got too onto his own power and lost it all

The Blue Wizards: althought they didnt come into the tales consider the fact that neither did most anythjing of the western (middle earth) world. whos to say that they weren't fighting sauron over there, and were simply out of reach for bilbo&frodo to write about. Whos too say they didnt become tree huggers or something (similar to brother radagast) There is a possiblity that they fell to evil, but there is a greater and most likely possiblity that they stayed true, or at least didnt fall to sauron, but were out of contact with the easter (middle earth) world. Just another angle

RyAN

Elrian
10-28-2001, 08:57 PM
The Blue Wizards Alatar and Pallando were said to have journeyed into the East, and may have fallen under evil sway, in Unfinished Tales. Nothing else was ever written about them smilies/cool.gif

Mithadan
10-29-2001, 09:00 AM
One of the later HoME volumes (10 I think but I'm not sure) modifies the Blue Wizards tale slightly. It is suggested that their purpose was to journey into the East and prevent Men from coming under the sway of Sauron. They may have set up psuedo-cults to oppose Sauron and HoME suggests they were at least partially successful and that matters would have been much worse during the War of the Ring if not for them.

Kin-strife
10-29-2001, 04:32 PM
This is said of the two wizards in letters (letter 221):
What success they had I do not know; but I fear they failed, as Saruman did, though doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron.
I suspect, however, that the passage Mithadan refered to in HoME is later that this letter (1958) as he says in the letter that he doesn't know the colours of the two wizards.
Apart from this all I can add is that they are linked to Orome as he sent Alatar who in turn brought Pallando as a friend.
I'm currently trying to write a fan fiction where the blue wizards came to the East and found primitive men not yet fallen under the shadow suffering from famine and felt great pity for them. They felt that the men were neglected by the Valar and were moved so far as to attempt to bring them back to Valinor.

Elrian
11-04-2001, 12:18 AM
A Fan Fic of the Blue Wizards would be nice. Good luck with it Kin-Strife, I'll look forward to reading it. It's amazing how good the Fan Fics here in the Downs are! smilies/smile.gif