The Dark Powers

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Okay, not to totally undermine what the best thing to ever grace the planet was about, but I can't help myself. In recent months I have taken keen interest in Judeo-Christian Mythos (I am hard at work on my own fantasy series). I obviously notice the obvious connection between Morgoth-Melkor and Satan-Lucifer. But what intrigues me is this; what about his underlings? I understand Beelzebub was the captain of Satan's armies. Not unlike Gothmog? After all, a fiery devil is not too disimilar to a fiery demon. Vampires, Wolves and Spiders fit into the scheme as dark servents. But where in it all does Sauron fit in? Who is he? Besides the fact that he was a Maia of Aule and of the Fire element, a master craftsmen, what do we know to connect it? He has fiery cat eyes. He has black skin (in his WotR form). Who was he? Someone tell me. I need to know. And if you can think up more connections (pre-Christ of course, Tolkien himself didn't want to undermine the good book), do it.

[Evenstar1]

I read somewhere that JRRT specifically denounced that LOTR was any attempt at a direct parallel with any Biblical stories. It was a sticking-point of his with friend CS Lewis, who chose to make obvious parallels with Christianity in "The Chronicles of Narnia." However, Tolkien seems to have veered from this path later in life, as he worked more and more on the Silmarillion. (Or, that's what I read somewhere, at least...) smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Tirned Tinnu]

I have often heard the members of various bboards comparing Morgoth to Loki:

Loki is one of the major deities in the Norse pantheon. He is a son of the giant Farbauti ("cruel striker") and the giantess Laufey. He is regarded as one of Aesir, but is on occasion their enemy. He is connected with fire and magic, and can assume many different shapes (horse, falcon, fly). He is crafty and malicious, but is also heroic: in that aspect he can be compared with the trickster from North American myths. The ambivalent god grows progressively more unpleasent, and is directly responsible for the death of Balder, the god of light.

Loki's mistress is the giantess Angrboda, and with her he is the father of three monsters. His wife is Sigyn, who stayed loyal to him, even when the gods punished him for the death of Balder. He was chained to three large boulders; one under his shoulders, one under his loins and one under his knees. A poisonous snake was placed above his head. The dripping venom that lands on him is caught by Sigyn in a bowl. But every now and then, when the bowl is filled to the brim, she has to leave him to empty it. Then the poison that falls on Loki's face makes him twist in pain, causing earthquakes.

On the day of Ragnarok, Loki's chains will break and he will lead the giants into battle against the gods. Loki is often called the Sly One, the Trickster, the Shape Changer, and the Sky Traveler.

As such, Sauron would have to have been one of Loki's followers, if not one of his sons...
Does anyone have information regarding them? I seem to recall something about them being like evil sea creatures...or am I mixing in Greek/Roman mythology?

Also, though I have not read them in their entirety, I believe there is a character in the Finnish sagas that is similarly ?evil?
Can anyone shed some light where I have failed? smilies/confused.gif

[Westerly Wizard]

First off, I won't make any attempt to match the beings of Tolkien's work to Christianity, as he said nothing in his work was intended to be an allegory.

Also, I don't think that Loki could fit in anywhere in Tolkien's Cosmogony. He is indeed a trickster character: this means that it was not always clear whether he was good or bad at heart (although that explanation is a little lacking). Thus, he certainly doesn't fit in as Melkor.

[Maikadilwen]

Tinnu, the three children of Loki are:
The great worm (in Danish: Midgårdsormen), that lies in the see surrounding the world, Midgard.
The great wolf Fenrir (in Danish Fenris) who bit off the hand of Tyr.
And last, but definitely not least, their sister Hel, who rules the underworld.

Hope that helps. smilies/smile.gif

I keep hearing people claim Tolkien's works to be very Christian, but I still don't see it. Sure there are many similarities, but so there are in many other books. Besides that, I see similarities to other religions in it as well.

[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: Maikadilwen ]

[Tirned Tinnu]

Thank you, Maikadilwen! I don't know about others, but hey, how many legends do we know of where the hero's hand was bitten off? *hint, hint!*
To ignore Danish and Finnish legend in comparison with Tolkien is folly, at best. It's obvious that he based some of his characters upon ancient gods and goddesses.
The problem is trying to pin exact characterizations and names on them. Tolkien wrote the Valar as a mixture of legends and his own imagination. So just accept it! When I posted on Loki, I was only making a suggestion as to the basis for Melkor's character. smilies/wink.gif

[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: Tirned Tinnu ]