Herumor

[Robomir]

I have come across the name of Herumor a few times but even so I know very little about him. I have found his name as one of the people who were sent among the Haradrim during the first age to spread discord. And also in the New Shadow in the Peoples of Middle Earth the name also comes up. Is it the same person? Who was Herumor? Does anyone know what happened when he was with the Haradrim?

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Here (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/h/herumor.html) is something about Herumor. I don't know much about him but Google search is quite handy too. smilies/smile.gif

[Sharkû]

Like the article in the Encyclopedia of Arda says, he rose to power as a lord in the south under Sauron. Some non-Tolkien sources have taken him to have become a Nazgûl, but that is impossible since these were around long before Sauron went to Númenor.

Unfortunately, the New Shadow breaks off before we get to know how Herumor is. Chances are it's just a recycled name; since Herumor 'lord of darkness' would appear to be a fitting name for any dark lord.

[Robomir]

Yeah I was quite annoyed when the New Shadow finished as abruptly as it did. So if they are these black numenoreans does that make them similar to the mouth of Sauron. Also if Herumor were around in the second age it would make it pretty difficult for him to still be Kocking around at the time of the new shadow, and what you say about name recycling is correct.

[Numenorean]

if Herumor were around in the second age it would make it pretty difficult for him to still be Kocking around at the time of the new shadow
Pretty difficult - but in Middle Earth - not impossible. It seems that many evil men who fell under Saurons sway, particuarly those that had some minor power anyway, actively practiced necromancy, sorcery and other dark arts with the aim of cheating death.
However as Sharku pointed out, it could well be a re-cycled name too. At the risk of speculating though, I definately felt that the source of evil in New Shadow touches upon a deeper, darker and far more powerful resonance than just another Dark Captain with a familiar name from the South/East.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 8:03 AM January 20, 2004: Message edited by: Numenorean ]

[Sharkû]

The thing is, anybody who had his life 'prolongued' by Sauron beyond a natural point, such as the Nazgûl or apparently the Mouth, would conclusively have perished with the fall of Sauron as well.

[Robomir]

When the ring came to the likes of both Bilbo and Gollum they still had years left to live. Perhaps when they ring or it is destroyed they just carry on from where they left off. Just an idea.

[Finwe]

Exactly. When we meet Bilbo in Rivendell, he appears to have aged a lot in such a short span of time. It is because his body is trying to "catch up" its physical age with its chronological age. The aging process is accelerated once that influence for longevity is removed.

[Angry Brandybuck]

That suggests that either this evil dates from a long time ago, ie. the evil person, thing whatever, is very old. OR Borlas is an extremely wise old man who recognises the evil that is inherent in the souls of all men. The evil that they have been tainted with for such a long time.

This is only speculation, as we will never know Tolkein's intent when writing this.

[Robomir]

OR Borlas is an extremely wise old man who recognises the evil that is inherent in the souls of all men.
I think this is the more likely as Borlas is pretty old and he remebers the shadow of the third age. Also if this evil does date from a long time ago it is surprising that there are not more mentions of a Herumor in the past, rather than just a black Numenorian Captain of which there is very little information about.

[Finwe]

You know, I just realized something that might be of great importance. Borlas specifically states that he knows this "new Evil" for "what it was." Doesn't that sound remarkably like Gandalf trying to convince the rest of the White Council that Sauron had indeed returned, in the Third Age, and that the Necromancer was none other than him? I think that a parallel can be drawn between these two "risings." Perhaps Tolkien intended for this "New Shadow" to be defeated in the same way, by a group of heroes who would journey into the heart of his "realm," and destroy the thing that made him so powerful.

[Angry Brandybuck]

That would explain why Tolkein didn't feel he needed to continue with that project.

It does say something about the cyclical nature of history though doesn't it?

[Finwe]

Definitely.


I guess that makes part of the reason that Tolkien scrapped that project being that it was turning into a sort of re-make of LotR, with much of the same characters and themes. Tolkien probably wanted to write a more original story, but found that he just couldn't.

[Numenorean]

Finwe, If JRRT had applied himself to completing the New Shadow, I cant see that a lack of originality would've been a factor really, his imagination seems boundless to me. Judging from his comments, its more likely that his loss of faith in the Dominion and Goodwill of Men was a deciding element in his reluctance to pursue a tale of the Fourth Age:

JRRT- "Since we are dealing with Men it is inevitable that we should be concerned with the most regrettable feature of their nature: their quick satiety with good"

That comment feels very cynical, realistic and actually quite bitter about the state of the human condition.

Back on topic though, and I found some interesting ideas concerning Herumor and the Fourth Age (http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/31389) by Michael Martinez.

Basically he deduces that the New Shadow of Herumor could be:
i) Evil men impersonating Orks
ii) Orks practicing Satanism/Morgothism in league with evil men and boys
iii) Wights or faded evil Elves again either in league with or in possession of evil men/sorcerers.

Of this last point he says:
a wight makes a certain better sense for the Satanic cult than a mere Orcish presence in Gondor. Sauron was closely associated with sorcery and necromancy, and he was served by many spirits, not just the Nazgul. Although the Nazgul were reduced to impotence when the One Ring was destroyed, the Barrow-wights and other spirits may have remained to trouble the living for many centuries afterward. If Herumor and his followers had found and become involved with a wight, the terror it could wield and the power it possessed would be considerable.
Its all just intriguing specualtion really, but what throws me in the whole Herumor mystery is the fact that JRRT actually goes as far as naming him (and Fuinur) in the Silmarillion, instead of calling them Black Numenoreans, or not naming them at all - like for example the three of the Nazgul who are acknowledged to be of Numenorean extraction.

Tolkien rarely places a name into the history of Arda without there being a background or destiny of meaning for doing so. If Herumors part in the HoME was to be so fleeting and insignificant, it does not follow JRRTs modus operandi, and the mystery just gets deeper...

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 6:52 AM January 28, 2004: Message edited by: Numenorean ]