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Pengolodh
05-03-2001, 11:28 AM
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I've infected my sister with the Tolkien research virus I am afraid <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">

I own the Silmarillion and volumes 10,11 and 12 of the HoMe series. You have to admit that letting her read both the Sil and Morgoth's Ring and War of the Jewels is a little bit of the same thing. So I either let her read the more extensive two volumes of MR and WotJ , or let her read the Publ. Silmarillion. There is more info in the HoME volumes I guess, and pretty much the same stories, though Turin's and Beren's are missing.

What sayeth thee?

"In those days the Noldor still roamed the Hither Lands, Mightiest among the Children of Iluvatar, fair and tall and their beautiful voices were still heard by mere mortals"</p>

Drew2K1
05-03-2001, 12:13 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
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I sayeth

I sayeth, let her read the published Silmarillion, because it just wouldn't be the same without Turin and Beren. Then if she likes it she can read volumes 10,11 and 12 of the HoMe series.
Although I have never read any of the HoMe series so I really wouldn't be the person to listen to....


</p>

Lady Eowyn
05-03-2001, 11:38 PM
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Re: I sayeth

I sayeth she should read the sil first.
No particular reason, I just think it's the best boik to start
and then go onto HOME

And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom</p>

enep
05-04-2001, 04:11 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Ghastly Leprechaun
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Re: I sayeth

LoTR and the Hobbit. It's hard to read the Sil and any of HoME if you haven't read either of those...

Hobbit is the easiest read when you're young, LoTR is tricky to begin with (there's the initial boring parts to get over) and the Sil is harder to read...I got mine three years ago (I think) before I got LoTR and didn't read it until last January...after I'd read both LoTR and the Hobbit 2/3 times.

If you don't have either of those, the Sil is a better choice IMO than PoME/MR/WoTJ etc. <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">

- enep</p>

Gilthalion
05-04-2001, 10:04 AM
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Re: I sayeth

In order:
The Hobbit
The Lord of the Rings
The Silmarillion
Anything else...



<center><font face=verdana size=1> http://www.barrowdowns.comBarrow-Downs</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000Bare Bones</a>~http://pub41.ezboard.com/btarostineruhirTar Ost-in-Eruhir</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000/gilthalion.htmlGrand Adventures</a>~http://www.barrowdowns.com/fanfichobbits.aspThe Hobbits</a>~http://www.tolkientrail.comTolkien Trail</a> </center></p>

Amandil
05-04-2001, 10:51 AM
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Re: what would you advise

The two paths my friends have followed with success are as follows:
Hobbit&gt;LotR&gt;Silmarillion&gt;Unfinished Tales&gt;HoME
LotR&gt;Hobbit&gt;Silmarillion&gt; whatever parts of HoME covers thier specific interest in relation to the previous books&gt;UT

.........and then repeat for the rest of your life as needed until symptoms are permanent! <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">

Though, for my wife, it begins and ends like this:
Hobbit&gt; LoTR. Nothing else.
She has reread the Hobbit many times and has an old record record of Nicol Williamson reading it that she has almost worn out. (Made a tape copy!). Probably her favorite fantasy book of all time She has read LotR a few times as well. Dearly loves them both, teaches them to her students. Thinks they truly wonderful stories and loves Hobbits, Elves, and the use of language.

BUT.....she thoroughly abhors the Silmarillion and thinks the entire HoME makes a great paperweight. She has it in her head that Christopher Tolkien is trying to ride the coatails of his father and nothing I can say will disuade her. <img src=frown.gif ALT=":(">
She won't even read any of the indices in RoTK. <img src=frown.gif ALT=":("> <img src=frown.gif ALT=":(">
Whats a poor boy to do? <img src=ohwell.gif ALT=":\">

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000049>Amandil</A> at: 5/4/01 12:54:54 pm

Mithrandir
05-04-2001, 11:00 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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Re: what would you advise

I have tried and tried to read the Silmarillion, but each time i have started, i have either gotten so confused or bored that i have had to put the book down. i really want to read it, but cant seem to get started. any suggestions?

The Road goes ever on and on </p>

The X Phial
05-04-2001, 11:09 AM
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Re: what would you advise

I would say the best way to wade through it the first time is with paper and pencil in hand. I had to make charts of all the Valar and their relationships to each other the first time. Thankfully, the Silmarillion includes lineage charts for the Noldorian royalty. You could also just skip the first parts and start where the Elves go to Valinor. I don't advocate this because I think you miss the scope of the world as created by Tolkien, especially the magic of the birth of the two trees.

Okay, enough rambling. <img src=wink.gif ALT=";)">

-*-The X Phial-*- "Yet more fair is the living land of Lorien, and the Lady Galadriel is above all the jewels that lie beneath the earth!"</p>

Amandil
05-04-2001, 11:13 AM
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Re: what would you advise

Mithrandir, how far into the book are you getting before the snooze/confusion effect sets in? Most people I know that have had trouble with Sil or been turned off of it couldn't get past what they described as &quot;The Old Testament&quot; portion of it.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000049>Amandil</A> at: 5/4/01 1:16:20 pm

Drew2K1
05-04-2001, 12:47 PM
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Re: what would you advise

It took me a few attempts to get past the first 40 pages, but after reading of Turin Turambar and of Beren and Luthien it was well worth it.

</p>

red
05-04-2001, 04:09 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mischief
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&lt;sniffle&gt;

The Silmarillion makes me cry. I can only read a few pages at a time. <img src=frown.gif ALT=":("> <img src=frown.gif ALT=":("> <img src=frown.gif ALT=":(">

But, it is one of my all-time favorite books. Go figure. <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">

-rd

<blockquote><font size=2>

"He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer."</p>

-A Short Rest, The Hobbit</p></blockquote></p>

red
05-04-2001, 04:10 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mischief
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But...

...what I can't figure out is what you mean by 'let her read'. She can darn well read whatever she pleases, can't she!? <img src=wink.gif ALT=";)">

-rd

<blockquote><font size=2>

"He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer."</p>

-A Short Rest, The Hobbit</p></blockquote></p>

The X Phial
05-04-2001, 05:10 PM
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Re: But...

As an expert in Viral Tolkienology, I suggest innoculations with small parts of the works every day. Please, get lots of rest and drink plenty of fluids. Do not operate heavy machinery while reading!

-*-The X Phial-*- "Yet more fair is the living land of Lorien, and the Lady Galadriel is above all the jewels that lie beneath the earth!"</p>

enep
05-04-2001, 09:10 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Ghastly Leprechaun
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Re: But...

<img src=laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> Be sure to see your doctor if complications persist <img src=biggrin.gif ALT=":D">

- enep</p>

Amandil
05-05-2001, 12:15 PM
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Re: But...

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Do not operate heavy machinery while reading! <hr></blockquote>

Thats what the Silmarillion on tape/cd is for!


</p>

Aldaron
05-07-2001, 02:06 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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Re: But...

The Silmarillion is not the easiest thing to read. My first time through, after a couple of unsuccessful attempts, I determined to read ten pages at a time. This gave me time to think over what I had read. I must admit, however, that there are parts which beg one to read on. And in that case, you do.


</p>

CorinaElenia
05-07-2001, 02:15 PM
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Re: &lt;sniffle&gt;

I reread the Sil over and over and I always cry. I guess for a book to be good, it has to make me laugh and cry (not at the same time though).

~Corina

</p>

Telchar
05-07-2001, 11:43 PM
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Re: &lt;sniffle&gt;

I personally think it would be wrong to read anything conserning the SILM in HoME before reading the Actual SILM - it would be like reading Vol 6-9 of HoME (those that are conserned with LOTR) before reading the actual LOTR.

The Silmarillion should give one conseption - The HoME deeper understanding.

Cheers Telchar

</p>

the Lorien wanderer
05-08-2001, 12:43 AM
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Re: &lt;sniffle&gt;

I really had to keep at it to get through the 'Old Testament' portion of the Silm. Once I did that however, I was hooked! I really love the Silm, almost as much as LoTR. <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)"> I followed up the Silm but Unfinished Tales and then the Tolkien Reader, both of which I enjoyed immensely. My sister however, refuses to touch the Silm. She enjoys the LoTr as a story and refuses to get into the details of the history and the goegraphy of it. Says its too much like a textbook. <img src=laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> <img src=laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

Humour is emotional chaos remembered in moments of tranquility.</p>

Amandil
05-08-2001, 01:12 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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Re: &lt;sniffle&gt;

Its gets me when people say the Silmarillion is boring, but that they loved the LoTR. Its kind of a give away that they stopped reading it fairly early on and gave up. They don't know what they are missing!
All the highs and lows. All the drama and adventure. Bright swords flashing in the clean air. Captives freed!
The betrayals. The lovers kept apart by fate. The birth of child that is the hope of his people. The birth and death of cities! Magic swords! Songs of power! Islands raised from the sea floor, islands as ships! Ships in the air!

Dragons! An elves! Oh my!!!

Now I have to go back and read it again.
Wait. I am already rereading it. Stop. Go back to page one and start over again <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)"> aaaaaaah.

</p>

obloquy
05-08-2001, 08:04 PM
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Sil

The Silmarillion is beautiful and tragic. However, allow me to deviate from the topic a bit and share the saddest and most moving thing I've read in a long time. Earendil's words at the Fall of Gondolin:<blockquote>Quote:<hr> &quot;Mother Idril, I would we had a good Ecthelion of the Fountain here to play to me on his flute, or make me willow-whistles! Perchance he has gone on ahead?&quot; But Idril said nay, and told what she had heard of his end. Then said Earendil that he cared not ever to see the streets of Gondolin again, and he wept bitterly; but Tuor said that he would not again see those streets, 'for Gondolin is no more.'&quot;<hr></blockquote>

Ai! Muil nirnaeth-eithel!

(That's very beginner Sindarin constructed from an online dictionary; correct as needed.)


</p>

Aldaron
05-09-2001, 03:47 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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Re: Sil

Thanks, Obloquy, for sharing those few lines. They create a whole scene filled with bathos and a lament for a lost place. It truly is quite beautiful. &quot;For Gondolin is no more.&quot;

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