Coincidence?

[burrahobbit]

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I don't know if anyone else notices this kind of thing, but a lot of the tie I do. I've noticed quite a few things bearing Tolkien names, for example: yesterday I was is a toy store and say an action figue from the Fox Network children's she &quot;The Mystic Knights of Tir-na-Nog&quot;, which is sort of a King Arthur meets The Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers type thing, that had the name &quot;Rohan&quot;; in in the Final Fantsy series, at least in Final Fantasy 7, there is a grey metal called &quot;mythril&quot;; and I'm willing to bet my life that there was a Balrog somewhere in the Street Fighter series, a big evil bald guy from Thailand. Anyone else notice things like that?

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Chief Wight
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Re: Coincidence?

The fantasy genre of literature has one father - J.R.R. Tolkien. Because Tolkien invented modern fantasy, and he is considered the master writer of it, it is almost impossible to read a swords and sorcery type novel without seeing its Middle-Earth roots somewhere in the story.

The same goes for commmercial enterprises. If they are trying to sell something fanstasy related, you'll usually see a name or idea derived from Tolkien.

Remeber though, that even Tolkien did not invent everything. Many of his ideas stem from more ancient and traditional sagas of Scandanavia and other lands. I'm not an expert on that aspect of Tolkien's works. But if you look around you can find some interesting articles on the comparison of Middle-Earth characters and storylines to those of older works.



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[Balin999]

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Re: Coincidence?

burrahobbit that one with Balrog is true he was a boxer from the states
and mythril is also true..
and think of warcraft... ummm did tolkien invent the orcs? i think he did


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[burrahobbit]

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Re: Coincidence?

That's right, Balrog was the big evil boxer guy. It's been forever since I played any Street Fighter games. That correction aside, I was mainly thinking about things outside of the typical swords and sorcery stuff. (Final Fantasy is pushing it, but I consider it more psuedoindustrial, especially the last three. And the other as a children's show, and a bad one at that. I don't know anyone in the target audience that would have noticed the reference, I didn't even notice it until I saw the name on the action figure. Not hat I watched it, mind you, I caught it a few times channel surfing.)

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

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Re: Coincidence?

The writers of these stories automatically search in their memories for possible character names. Because of the huge influence Tolkien had over literature as a whole, it is only natural that people today will find Tolkienesque words and phrases to use. Even in non-fantasy applications.



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[bmilder]

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Re: Coincidence?

There's an X-men villain named Sauron.

---Ben
Admin at <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/bbenjaminstolkienboard><font size=+1>Entmoot</a>, the largest J.R.R. Tolkien community on ezboard!</p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

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Re: Coincidence?

No kidding??! Heh. Does he have a ring?

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[burrahobbit]

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Re: Coincidence?

I don't remember if he has a ring or not, but he does have power over the minds of others. He's a half man half pteranadon mutant thing. And he's an underling a lot of the time.

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

[BilboFrodo]

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Re: Coincidence?

Tolkien has had a lot of influence on literature from after his time, many companies use his characters names in hope it will sell more of their product, also Orcs have been a myth for hundreds of years like elves and Tolkien didn't make them up

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[The Barrow-Wight]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Chief Wight
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Re: Coincidence?

Tolkien's definition of Elves was very different from previous writers' and storytellers' uses of the term. Where before elves were more akin to fairies and pixies, J.R.R. turned them into noble and tragic creatures. Powerful and immortal but terribly vulnerable.

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[BilboFrodo]

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Re: Coincidence?

Yes he did change the idea of Elves but he didn't create the idea he modified it. But he didn't create Orcs they have been thought of as evil creatures for many years before and Tolkien only changed the idea of them slightly and created many races of Orcs like humans

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[Balin999]

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Re: Coincidence?

does anyone of u know the game diablo? i created an online- character called Sauron999 and it happened many times that someone said &quot;i know your name , Sauron is one of the X-men&quot;
lol

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[The Barrow-Wight]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Chief Wight
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Re: Coincidence?

Now that's funny! But kinda sad. It shows that popular culture isn't as aware of JRR Tolkien's works as well as it used to be. But really, when I think about it, us Tolkien fans were always on the fringe anyways. These movies might change all of that.

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[Balin999]

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Re: Coincidence?

yeah i really hope that more people will turn to the books for the first time after they have seen the movies ...

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[Celebringnar]

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Re: Coincidence?

Tolkien's not the only one to suffer from this kind of a lack of originality. Well maybe that's a bit too strong. I suppose that others use recognised names to instill a kind of awe in others.

Excalibur for example... is a Latinised version of &quot;Calad Bolg&quot; the name of the sword owned by either Cú-Chulainn or Ferdiad, which was reputedly one of the four gifts of the Tuatha Dé Danann. This is the original sword of light or &quot;Cleidheamh Soluis&quot;. So Mr. Lucas, a lightsabre originates where...?

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[Hannah Burrows]

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Re: Coincidence?

Ah, Tolkien was a genius. You see, my mother thought of this, the world in Tolkien's time thought fantasy was fairies and pixies and trolls and wizards and elves and dwarves and dragons. Then Tolkien twisted it a bit, dragons talk and play at riddles, elves are wise yet merry and tragic, trolls are dimwitted and tall, goblins are of diffrent breeds and are smart yet traitorous, dwarves love beautiful things and not only live underground but strive for gold, and he created something man had never heard of, hobbits. You see he took the normal and changed it a bit, adding his own nature to it as hobbits.
My own writing is a bit like that, my races have drawn apart as diffrent kinds, you have animaux (people with animal features) which are divided into the catans(cat like people), hawkans(bird like people), reptillians (lizard like persons), clevcans (fox people), equina(horse people), and the wan-da-bits (rabbit people). Then you have the delves which are almost like dwarves but they are covered with a fine fur and have beards and fur running down to their nose and wittens which are a bit like hoobits in nature and stature but are catanish in their features with long cat tails, sharp ears, and fur they also live in trees which grow in a round hollow shape. I can draw humans so I wrote about what I first started drawing.

" In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit . . . " That's where it all began.</p>

[doug*platypus]

I always thought that the Eldar from Warhammer 40,000 were a striking example. Not only does it borrow from Tolkien, it borrows one of his invented words, and for an entire race of their creatures. I wonder if The Professor's words will eventually become more and more assimilated into modern language, and whether it will extend outside the bounds of fantasy works?

I hear rumours that Hobbit, Klingon and Jedi Knight are now entries in some dictionaries. Not that this counts for much - if anything, I think it speaks more for the (poor) quality of the dictionary than the fact that the words have now entered common use.

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, my Concise Oxford English Dictionary lists Hobbit, but not the other two. Which seems to me to be fair enough. "Hobbit" and "Halfling" are terms now used more widely than solely in reference to JRRT's works, as their use in games such as Dungeons & Dragons and Warhammer show.

Incidentally, I believe that "Jedi" is now an officially recognised religion in the UK. In the recent population census, sufficient people put "jedi" as their religion to give it official status! smilies/biggrin.gif

[Inderjit Sanghera]

In the Simpsons, there is a shop called 'J.R.R Toykens' in Springfield at the comic book store in Shelbyville is named 'Frodo's of Shelbyville.'And I'm sure there is a Endor somewhere in Star Wars.

[Lalaith]

There is an Endor in the Bible.
Oh and unfortunately the jedi thing isn't true. Lots of people did indeed put it on the census form but that in itself wasn't enough to give it official status...

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Didn't some people in Russia put their race down as Hobbits in their census? Or something like that.

[The Saucepan Man]

Oh and unfortunately the jedi thing isn't true. Lots of people did indeed put it on the census form but that in itself wasn't enough to give it official status...

Shame. It must be one of those modern myths ... smilies/frown.gif

Endor in Star Wars is something to do with those awful Ewok types. Isn't it the planet they live on or something?

*Hangs head in shame for remembering something to do the Ewoks*

[Beren87]

Ah, they lived on the forest moon of Endor.

Sauron from X-men didn't have a ring.

Indrit, yes they did put down Hobbits. So many did that it came out on the national Census.

In the UK they put down Jedi under religion and when some charts are made it is included as a percentage because I believe it was like 2-4 percent that put it down.

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

As Haplo from the Death Gate Cycle would say; "There is no such thing as coincedence."
I write some fantasy, and am scripting a Television show, and I really think I've noticed not only all these seeming "rip-offs" and "mimicry" sorts of things, and have done a few myself. Not that there's anything wrong, like Saruman to Sauron, immitation is the highest form of flattery.

[doug*platypus]

yes they did put down Hobbits
Please! Choose your words more carefully!! The idea of the SPCA putting hobbits to sleep because they outlived their cuteness months after Christmas is terrible!!

The Jedi religion thing was also a big hit in Aotearoa/New Zealand, where it was likewise believed that all you needed was a certain percentage to make it an 'official' religion. After seeing the astonishing turnout, the powers that be revealed (or decided) that no, you actually needed more than that. Was good for us atheists, though.

Hobbits, I believe, are used more frequently (are you sure this is true?) than Jedi or Klingons, because they were created before the days of trademarks on character names. I can't tell you how frustrating it was to read about Luke Skywalker (TM), Jedi Knight (TM) and Princess Leia (TM) fighting the evil Emperor Palpatine (TM) and destroying his Death Star (TM). The term halfling is used more frequently than hobbit, though. I don't know if the names in the Lord of the Rings are now copyrighted/trademarked - anyone know for certain? Who would own the copyrights/trademarks?

[drigel]

I always thought that Warcraft used so many Tolkienisms that surely they must have won some kind of liscensing suit. Whats up with that? Maybe they settled and the estate is getting a kickback....

[little_bit_odd]

The computer rpg 'Everquest' is very middle-earth like, but so were pencil and paper rpgs, so I don't know if that counts in its own right.

[Cazoz]

I know the most flagrant example of this.

Can anybody remember a game on the NES about 12 years ago called Wizards and Warriors? You played a knight and jumped around stabbing people. Anyways, the action took place in the Forest of Elrond and the main baddie was called something like Malkil.

Oh, and after each level you rescued a maiden, I think they hadArwen orGaladriel. I obviously didn't get it when I was about 10 though.

Found a link (http://www.kaejae-worx.com/~don/videogame/wizwar/), check it out!

[drigel]

This thread should be renamed "Protectors of the Tolkien estate" hehe I wonder how many lawsuits they have had to file in order to protect their product. What is protected and what is considered public domain?

[Mithadan]

If I recall correctly, the literary works, The Hobbit, LoTR, Silmarillion, etc, are owned by the Estate. Film rights for the Hobbit and LoTR only are owned by Saul Zaentz. The rights to names and characters in The Hobbit and LoTR are owned by Tolkien Enterprises (Zaentz' company). Anything pertaining to the Sil. is owned by the Estate or Christopher Tolkien (or both). So if anyone hears a rumor about a Silmarillion movie, its a lie.

[the guy who be short]

he did not create the idea of elves being great and powerful rather than small fairies with wands. he got these ideas from celtic myth. he also hated shakespeare, who often used the idea of small elves.

[Elois Telcontar]

In the TV series Babylon Five the Rangers where a secret group who purpose was to keep tabs on and to fight the evil shadows, while most people in the universe where unaware that the shadows existed.

[Melkor89]

If you're looking for coicidences, listen to some songs by Led Zepplin. His songs often contain LOTR references. References to Gollum and the never ending stair.

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