of Elves or Men

[Eowyn of Ithilien]

I realise that the "which race would you be" question has been asked before, but this is specifically concerning the Doom of the Children of Iluvatar...for myself, I'm still undecided.
To live forever would bring unimaginable pain-to die when in love????

[Inziladun]

Unending life could translate into unrelenting boredom. The Elves themselves envied mortality, and that should be pretty telling.

[Quelledeloth]

Sure the Elves envied the mortality of men, however men also envied the immortality of elves

[Voronwe]

It is said that even the Valar will come to envy the mortality of Men.

Given the choice, I'd probably want to hold onto my mortality, not to mention my free will, which is another thing unique to Men.

-Voronwe

[red]

It is not the living forever I envy as much as the preservation of the body. I don't want an old, useless, wrinkled, ugly body no matter how keen my mind still is. I'd give up mortality any day to keep my body the way it is. I'm with the Elves. smilies/frown.gif

-red

[Lush]

Thing is, the great cliche stands true here; the grass is always greener on the other side.
As for me, immortality and the prospect of keeping my wonderful body just the way it is now (*wink wink*-Red) is very attractive, but the soul is immortal already, and that's enough for me.

[Turambar]

Voronwë - did the elves not have free will? smilies/eek.gif

[Voronwe]

Elves didn't have free will in the sense that Men did, since their fate (and the fate of the Valar in Ea) was already determined by the music of the Ainur. But this doesn't necessarily mean that every little detail of an elf's life was already mapped out. They just didn't have the power to shape their own destiny in the way that men did.

-Voronwe

[The Mirrorball Man]

Originally posted by Voronwe:
[QB]Elves didn't have free will in the sense that Men did, since their fate (and the fate of the Valar in Ea) was already determined by the music of the Ainur.

Yes, but all throughout the history of Middle-Earth, Men have often used their free will to become servants - or simply pawns - of evil. Think about the Fall of Numenor, the Southrons and the Wainriders, about Isildur, Boromir, the Mouth of Sauron or the Ringwraiths.

Even at their worst hour, people like Eöl or Fëanor had some nobility. When Men fall, they fall all the way.

[Ghâshgûl]

Personnally I prefer beeing mortal. Well, I would not like to die right now, but I think there will be a time (perhaps when I'm 80?) when I will say "It was a good life, but now it's enough, I'm tired". Living on in this world for thousands and millions and billions and gazillions of years sounds a little worrying.

I also believe in an immortal soul (hoping that the memories on my mortal life here will not expire after 40 days), but even if I did not, I would not want to live for an infinite time.

Well, I admit: The prospect that Lush keeps her wonderful body just the way it is now sounds very tempting... smilies/smile.gif

Ghâshgûl

[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: Ghâshgûl ]

[Perethil]

It is better to live a short life, but not live within the boundries and shape my own destiny, than to live till the end of time but be carried by fate. Im with the mortals.

[Orald]

Voronwë, are you saying that if Fate and Destiny exist then free will cannot?
I suppose that if someone were to remove his or herself from time, he or she could map out a destiny for each person completely dependent on their choices and where each choice led them.
You see if you were to look back on someones life, could you not say that they were destined to do that? I say you could, even if free will exists.

As for my fate, I choose the mortality of the ever inscrutable man.

[Voronwe]

I don't think free will and fate are neccessarily incompatible. If fate only determines certain events which are inescapable, then there would be plenty of room for free will to fill in the gaps. On the other hand, if fate determines each and every moment from the beginning of time to the end, then I find it hard to see how one can make choices that are truely free.

I maybe used the term 'free will' a little loosely in my previous posts. The elves probably had a kind of free will, in that they had the power to make choices, but couldn't in the end escape fate. Men, though, were truely free, not being bound by fate.

-Voronwë

[Lush]

Originally posted by Ghâshgûl:
<STRONG>

I also believe in an immortal soul (hoping that the memories on my mortal life here will not expire after 40 days), but even if I did not, I would not want to live for an infinite time.

Well, I admit: The prospect that Lush keeps her wonderful body just the way it is now sounds very tempting... smilies/smile.gif

Ghâshgûl

[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: Ghâshgûl ]</STRONG>

Well, it's nice to see I got somebody's attention...Besides the, uh, fact that immortality apparently helps one defy gravity and the sun, there is also the advantage of keen eyesight and hearing, and of being one with nature. Of course, Walt Whitman was a living testament to the fact that not all of us humans are separated from the natural world.
If I was blessed with the opportunity to occupy Middle Earth, I would want to be an elf (so much interesting stuff happens, and I wouldn't want to miss out on it because of old age and death). Living as I do in this world, my humanity suits me just fine.

[Alkanoonion]

I would love to live forever, I don't want to be old and useless.

[Turambar]

The Very Secret Diary is HILARIOUS. My fave part is Days 13-19 but it's all very funny.

[Lush]

I'd hate to inspire the wrath of those higher up on the food-chain by going off topic, but Legolas' Secret Diary is HYSTERICAL as well, enjoy, but not unless you are very offended by gay humor, or humor in general. (http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?itemid=19297497) I have no idea who wrote this stuff, but you have to admit, it's kind of nice to be able to giggle about the characters every once in a while.

[Eowyn of Ithilien]

what if fate is simply our future mapped out in accordance to what our free will would dictate???
smilies/wink.gif

[Ghâshgûl]

(Lush, when you go off subject, I'll go with you...) I also like Aragorns diary (http://www.livejournal.com/users/cassieclaire/)...
"Still not king..." *lol*

Ghâshgûl

[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: Ghâshgûl ]

[Aralaithiel]

Ah yes, the eternal struggle of wanting what the other side has! Both mortality & immortality have their respective pros & cons. I would choose immortality. I agree with the post that fate & free will are not necessarily imcompatible. We are all on a path that has been decided for us, but we do get to pick & choose the way we follow that path. There are such things as side-tracks off the beaten path (don't ya love cliches?) of life, but we all end up on one path that has been decided for us.
I do think that the elves has a sort of free will. I can't think of it right off hand, but in the Silmarillion there are some examples. I will now go & see if I can find them - or re-read the whole thing & see if I am not mistaken!