Cirdan's History

[Inderjit Sanghera]

I would just like soem verifcation on a question that I have been pondering over for some time. (About 2hrs methinks) O.K, which reason should we believe was the factor in Cirdan staying in M-E? Was it Osse persuading him ,and some og his people to stay in M-E, a.l.a The Silmarillion, or was it the message from the valar bidding him to stay in M-E, or an combination of both?

[doug*platypus]

Círdan was the tradesman of the Elves, the good hard-working bloke's bloke. He had a job to do. He had the often thankless chore of maintaining a safe haven for the Elves to sail west, all throughout the turmoils of three ages. His role in giving to Gandalf Narya, the red ring, also should not be undervalued (although maybe Gandalf would have been given the ring by someone else).

Some excellent, already existing threads on the hardest working Elf in Elf business are Círdan (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001628) and Círdan Questions (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002237).

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

For that, and for the same reason that the Sindar stayed originally, I'd guess.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Hmm...anyone got the answer to my question? Was it the Valar or Osse who convinced Cirdan to stay?

[doug*platypus]

If you aks me, it was Ilúvatar. If not through a direct message, then by the creation of Círdan as someone who would be likely to stay, help out and serve a higher purpose such as minding the Havens. Whoa, I think all the Christians on this site must be getting to me!

[Inderjit Sanghera]

What do you think is Cirdan's biggest achievment? I think it is helping to build Vingilot, Earendil's ship, suposedly his main purpose. Waiting a few thousand years for Elrond and co was nice to. Anyone know his 'real' name, not his nickname, which ws cirdan-Sindarian for shipwright.

[Osric]

Osse is said to have persuaded some of the Teleri to remain, of whom Cirdan was (or, I suspect, became) the leader.

This seems less definite, and therefore less likely 'the real truth' than the other explanation in PoME: that when he vowed to go West, the Valar spoke into his mind to tell him not to.

And as far as Gandalf-spotting goes, Cirdan "saw further and deeper" than any other Elf in M-e (as a consequence of getting that direct word from the Valar in the first place!), and ships coming to Mithlond out of the West would be so rare and immensely significant that the means of Gandalf's arrival would also have given Cirdan a strong hint.

[ January 12, 2003: Message edited by: Osric ]

[Yavanna Kementari]

Cirdan~ The Shipwright, is his other name
and one of the reasons he stayed so long is he had trusted the Red Ring of Fire to Gandalf and told him he would await him until Gandalfs purpose was fulfilled.

Cirdan to Gandalf "Take now this ring, for thy labours and thy cares will be heavy from weariness. For this is the Ring of Fire and herewith, maybe, thou shalt rekindle hearts to th evalour of old in a world that grows chill. But as for me, my heart is with the Sea, and I will dwell by the grey shores, gaurding the Havens until the last ship sails. Then I shall await thee.
But when all these things were done, and the Heir of Isildur had taken up the lordship of Men, and the dominion of the West had passed to him, then it was plain that the power of the Three Rings ended also and to the Firstborn the world grew old and grey. In that time the last of the Noldor set sail from the Keepers of the Three Rings rode to the Sea...
Silmarillion pg 365-6 Hope this helps!! smilies/biggrin.gif ~Yavanna

[ January 12, 2003: Message edited by: Yavanna Kementari ]

[Inderjit Sanghera]

In HoME 12, on the essay about 'Cirdan' it is said he recieved a message from the valar telling him to stay.

[doug*platypus]

Cool, I can't wait to read that one, now. Círdan was a dude. Maybe you could post the quote, Inderjit, if it's not too much hassle? By the way, did you only just read that, or did you already know the answer to your question??

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Sorry, Doug, but I' in school so I have the books with me. But it is said he looked towards Tol Erresea and wished to go there, but receieved a message in his mind, like the Men recieved messages from Eru when they awoke, bidding him to stay.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Doug,

Here is the sad tale in HoMe XII, p. 386, that speaks of Cirdan's doom:

It was during the long waiting of the Teleri for the return of the floating isle, upon which the Vanyar and Noldor had been transported over the Great Sea, that Cirdan had turned his thoughts and skills to the making of ships, for he and all the other Teleri became impatient. Nevertheless is is said for love of his kin and allegiance Cirdan was the leader of those who sought longest for Elwe when he was lost and did not come to the shores to depart from Middle-earth. Thus he forfeited the fulfilment of his greatest desire; to see the Blessed Realm and find again there Olwe and his own nearest kin. Alas, he did not reach the shores until nearly all the Teleri of Olwe's following had departed.

Then it is said he stood forlorn looking ou to sea, and it was night, but far away he could see a glimmer of light upon Eressea ere it vanished into the West. Then he cried aloud: "I will follow that light, alone if none will come with me, for the ship that I have been building is almost ready." But even as he said this he received in his heart a message, which he knew to come from the Valar, though in his mind it was remembered as a voice speaking in his own tongue. And the voice warned him not to attempt this peril; for his strength and skill would not be able to build any ship able to dare the winds and waves of the the Great Seas for many long years yet. "Abide now that time, for when it comes then will your work be of utmost worth, and it will be remembered in song for many ages after." "I obey," Cirdan answered, and then it seemed to him that he saw (in a vision maybe) a shape like a white boat, shining above him, that sailed west through the air, and as it dwindled in the distance it looked like a star of so grea a brilliance that it cast a shadow of Cirdan upon the strand where he stood,

As we now perceive this is a foretelling of the ship which after apprenticeship to Cirdan, and ever with his advice and help, Earendil built, and in which at last he reached the shores of Valinor. From that night onwards, Cirdan received foresight touching all matters of importance, beyond the measure of all other Elves upon Middle-earth.

Christopher points out that this passage is unique in that "nothing is said of the history and importance of Cirdan as it apears elsewhere" (i.e., as the boatman of th LotR), but rather only in the context of Earendil's sailing.

Hope this helps.