Mouth of Sauron: Secrets

[TealDude3]

What exactly was the Mouth of Sauron? An Elf?
A Maia? An Orc? And is there anyway we can find out about his past?

[Mattius]

I think he was a man from Harad.

[Lindolirian]

It is said in the RotK that he was a Black Numenorean who was in the service of Sauron and under him, he grew in witchcraft and sorcery, and he gained Sauron's favor. Not too sure how he lived that long, unless it was some of his sorcery that he grew so powerful in.

[the witch king]

I always thort of him as comeing from Umbar it was traditionally a home for black Numenoreans on m/e, hes been alive for so long that hes fogotten his name so could it be possible he could be one of the original numenorians in the survace of sauron at the time of ar-pharazon? just a thort

[Kuruharan]

could it be possible he could be one of the original numenorians in the survace of sauron at the time of ar-pharazon?

That would put him right up there with the Nazgul, and I really rather doubt that. No doubt that he was quite old, but not that old. In fact the text says...

And he entered the service of the Dark Tower when it first rose again, and because of his cunning he grew ever higher in the Lord's favor...

The reconstruction of Barad-dur began in 2951, although he may have entered Sauron's service a little before that date. That is a relatively brief time to have been in Sauron's pay. He must have had a rather long career elsewhere in the world before he took up the job as Lieutenant of the Tower. Or maybe he is just not as old as he is usually credited as being.

And before anyone says something to the effect of, "Well, then obviously he had served Sauron from before the time of the Last Alliance," he clearly did not. Barad-dur was destroyed by the Last Alliance. The phrase "when it first rose again" shows that he joined Sauron when he returned to Mordor, after the events in The Hobbit.

[Legolas]

The Lieutenant of the Tower of Barad-dûr he was, and his name is remembered in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it, and he said: ‘I am the Mouth of Sauron.’ But it is told that he was a renegade, who came of the race of those that are named the Black Númenóreans; for they established their dwellings in Middle-earth during the years of Sauron’s domination, and they worshipped him, being enamoured of evil knowledge. And he entered the service of the Dark Tower when it first rose again, and because of his cunning he grew ever higher in the Lord’s favour; and he learned great sorcery, and knew much of the mind of Sauron; and he was more cruel than any orc.

Númenóreans were men, from isle of Númenór, of course, that was west over the sea towards Aman. It was overcome by water in the Second Age.

[ January 14, 2003: Message edited by: Legalos ]

[obloquy]

And I suppose it must be said: Black does not refer to the color of their skin.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Yes-most of the Kings men and Black Numenorians were Marachians-similar to the Rohirrim and Northmen. Most of the faithful and Elednili were Beorrim, who were said to have quite dark skin, in places, due to intermingling with other mannish tribes, whilst they journeyed to Beleriand and on the sea of Rhun, were there was quite a large camp.

[Balin999]

Doesn't "Black" mean that they are just the opposite of the "good" Numenoreans?
That's how I always understood it.
Like Black and White, Good and Evil, Tasty and "yarg!", you know what I mean...

[Maerbenn]

In this thread the mysterious Saulotus presents his infamous theory on the identity of the Mouth of Sauron: Magic in Middle-earth (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000215)