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Belegheru
06-21-2001, 12:10 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
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I've always been wondering how the wainriders looked like. What kind of arms they had and where they lived. How did they look in meaning of body (what colour os skin, did they look like some strange creatures or just like normal Man). I would like to know just about anything about those wainriders and if someone read more about them then me I would be glad to know.

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HerenIstarion
06-24-2001, 10:17 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Deadnight Chanter
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: About Wainriders

I always had a notion (for they there is no detailed description of them, as far as I know) that they appeared as some match for the medieval mongols, or, as giksoses appeared to egyptians

<a href=http://www.geocities.com/gl_century/Heren.html>GeorgeLashkhi</a> </p>

Theodred21
06-25-2001, 06:46 PM
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: About Wainriders

I agree with H-I. They also appear to me as some of the Eastern Invaders of our world like the Mongols.

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The Watcher in the Water
06-25-2001, 07:41 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: About Wainriders

I also agree... I always saw the Eastern peoples of middle earth akin to the Mongoloid human form.

The road goes ever on...</p>

Telchar
06-26-2001, 07:06 AM
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: About Wainriders

I allways thought of the Wainriders as people/men who fought battles from chariots - like those of the roman empire...

Anar kaluva tielyanna!</p>

Maglor68
06-26-2001, 07:57 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Wainriders

I always pictured them as Hittites or Assyrians or some other group from the top of the fertile cresecent around the time of ancient Israel.

- Maglor

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Telchar
06-26-2001, 11:56 PM
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Wainriders

Actually I think you're right about the Middle east Maglor - by do you guys share my picture of chariots???

Anar kaluva tielyanna!</p>

Theodred21
06-27-2001, 10:46 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Wainriders

Maybe you are right Telchar, if they could be compared to ancient Middle-Eastern civilizations, then they certainly could have used chariots. The Hittites and Egyptians were known to have used chariots to fight from, or as transportation. But that is only if you can compare them to invaders from the Middle-East. I still think that they remind me of the Mongols more than the Hittites.

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Theodred21
07-22-2001, 06:23 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ghost-Prince of Cardolan
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Wainriders

Since there are alot of new people here, I'm reviving this thread! Well, what's your opinion on wainriders?

...he heard Theodred's great voice cry "To me, Eorlingas!"</p>

Malagaerion
07-22-2001, 07:30 AM
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Wainriders

hrmm...doesn't 'wainrider' mean 'wagon riders'?

I've never heard of the Mongols to riding wagons of any sort. I could be mistaken though.

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Fingolfin
07-22-2001, 07:59 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Wainriders

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> This was composed not only of the war-chariots of the Wainriders but also of a force of cavalry far greater than any that had been expected. (UT O fEorl <hr></blockquote>

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Earendilyon
07-22-2001, 11:05 AM
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Mongols with chariots?

Malagaerion, the Mongold did indeed not use chariots to fight from.
However they used (ofcourse) wagons to transport their homes and stuff, and also to transport their sieging materials. They had rather quickly learned the &quot;art&quot; of laying siege to towns and also conquering those.

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Malagaerion
07-22-2001, 01:03 PM
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Mongols with chariots?

Well like I said I could have been mistaken <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">

Are these people we are talking about the same as the 'dark men in the east'?


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Snowdog
06-18-2004, 03:12 PM
I always took them to be a tribe of Easterlngs from around the Sea of Rhun, and used a crude chariot drawn by Wargs and acted as a sort of 'heavy calvary', and was supported by infantry. The Turkish, north African look and stature is what I picture, and they used axes. I guess the best descriptions from Tolkien would be the swarthy men that were spoken of in the Silmarillion.

HerenIstarion
06-26-2004, 02:26 PM
It is fascinating to find those oldies digged up from time to time :)

Lalaith
06-26-2004, 02:54 PM
I thought of them as similar to the Scythians, who were probably the first people to ride horses in battle and unlike the Mongols actually lived in waggons rather than yurts (tents).
more about the Scythians (http://www.rheged.freeserve.co.uk/scythians.html)

Kuruharan
06-26-2004, 04:17 PM
I picture the situation being similar to the Mongol invasion of Europe in 1240-41, sort of. :D

Osse
06-27-2004, 03:13 AM
Good points there guys, especially Kuruharan, the situation does reflect the Mongol invasion.

To me, the wainriders were the most interesting of the Eastern peoples; their style of fighting, lifestyle and culture always seemed intriguing. I always thought of how bad their homeland must have been, to force them into this nomadic life of pillaging. To me they were always a tall, though swarthy race, with olive skin and firey eyes, fighting from horseback or bronze chariots with long, curvy weapons. They were brutal, yet honourable. The women and children of the race i always imagined to plod alone behind in great, pelt covered wagons behind the great armies. They lived the way they did because they had to; once a country was depleted they were forced to move on, and the great, green lands in the west must have seemed ripe for the taking.

The similarities to western middle eastern cultures is quite startling as well, the Turks especially.

Thank you for bring this discussion back from the tombs!!

I look forward to hearing other's views...pitch in!

One Axe to Rule them All
06-30-2004, 10:25 AM
I always imagined them as a very tribal and fierce people, accustomed to living in the wild and fighting to keep what they had, everything they had was portable, and small wooden chariots were their largest tools of combat, and they fought in a mongolish style, seiging tows and taking what they wanted. They fought with spears, scythes, axes, and compound bows, and I always imaged them as a dark-skinned people with short beards(I know it's not very realistic) full of black hair.

Then again, just my imagination...

*EDIT*
I found a rough description on the encyclopedia of Arda

A confederation of Easterlings that descended upon Gondor and its allies, some two centuries after the time of the Great Plague, and remained a dire threat to the South-kingdom for nearly a hundred years. The Wainriders, who took their name from the wagons and chariots in which they rode to war, quickly overran Rhovanion and soon came to battle with Gondor itself. Narmacil II was lost in battle, and for a time all of Gondor's possessions east of Anduin were lost to it. Narmacil's son Calimehtar won a temporary reprieve when he defeated the Wainriders on the plain of Dagorlad.

After that defeat, the Wainriders planned a crushing revenge. Allying themselves with the Men of Harad and Khand, they orchestrated a simultaneous assault on Gondor from the north and the south, and the South-kingdom came close to destruction. King Ondoher was lost in the northern battles, but his general Ernil defeated the southern invaders. The victorious Wainrider army in the north, celebrating their victory over Ondoher, suddenly found themselves set upon by Ernil. In an encounter that became known as the Battle of the Camp, the Wainriders were put to rout, and those that survived fled back to their eastern domains.

It was later seen that the invasions of the Wainriders, as so many of Gondor's perils, were engineered by the emissaries of Sauron. While Gondor's control of the lands east of the Anduin had been lost, the borders of Mordor had been open, and during this time the Nazgl had taken advantage of Gondor's plight to re-enter the land of their master.