Right, second reason...and I have the super secret special wolhuncentler role :rolleyes:

Haha, I won't lie to you and say I'm not amused. :D

But I'd hate to lose this game like this. I'm having dinner now but then I'm going to have a look at toDay's proceedings. Stay cool now!

Uhh... :confused:

Finland - Hungary footballgame's second half started a minute ago. I'll be back in 45 minutes...

I'm the real hunt..

No. I'm not. I'm just getting a bit too confused. :rolleyes:
Hope you'll excuse me for not being amused at all. I was already kind of starting to make sense of the two reveals when you turned the whole thing upside down again. The thing is, I can't see why an ordo would fake a reveal. If you wanted the hunter to come out so we had a known innocent, fine, so did many others, and that would almost make sense in some twisted way. Instead, you said you didn't want the hunter to reveal, so - what? I haven't thought this through yet, but this far I haven't come up with a plausible reason for an innocent to make a fake reveal. It would, though, make sense if you were a wolf almost facing the gallows and deciding to pose as Hunter to survive through yesterDay's voting (that would point to Zil's innocence?) and this Day. Then when the real Hunter comes out, you realise she's more credible than you, so you turn the whole thing around again and claim you're just an ordo who revealed as Gifted. Repeat: I haven't thought this through, in fact I'm still processing things, just wanted you guys to be aware of my thought processes.

That said, my massive collection of quotes I wanted to comment on has mostly lost its importance due to recent developments. A few things though.
A good point. If Skip is a baddie, he's most likely a wolf who took desperate measures to avoid getting lynched.

I have the feeling I'm seriously missing something, but unless I am, nobody had voted Inzil so how was his a self-preservation vote? Please someone tell me what I've missed.
I don't know why but this passage struck me as strange, especially the underlined part. Not sure if I can explain it so that anyone can understand what I mean, but I'll try. Somehow, from the tone of that, it looks as if he knows Skip isn't the hunter even though he had said, in his previous post, that he believes the reveal. I know he's just making a scenario of under what conditions it would make sense for a Wilwawolf (wow, I love that word!) to disagree with Skip's reveal. Rather, in his scenario he is assuming Wilwawolf knows Skip is not the real hunter, but a wolf would have no way of knowing that! He is clearly not suggesting that Skip and Wilwa are fellows, though, either. What pops into my mind is that Eonwe is Skip's fellow, and the knowledge of that kind of slipped into Wilwawolf's thinking in his scenario.

Are you kidding me?

Let me get this straight. You are an innocent who decided to pretend to be the Hunter to force me to reveal myself?!? Ya know you could have just come on this morning and said "I think the Hunter should reveal" and maybe I would have (though, probably not), but faking a reveal to make me come out? I don't appreciate that kind of manipulation, especially since the only reason I did end up revealing was cause I thought that would convince people to vote you since I assumed you were guilty. I would not have revealed otherwise.

I'm so confused. I don't understand what you thought this would accomplish...

...if your innocent. Which I'm not inclined to believe. But if you were guilty it'd be pretty dumb to take back the reveal, since you could have convinced people today to go after me or someone else. But still.....it's weird.

Oh my goodness my brain hurts. And there are only 3 hours left, and I won't be here for the last of them.

x'ed with Greenie, and her first line made me laugh out loud in the middle of class :p

I am puzzled by today's development. I like Inzil's summary of my actions, but I have nothing to add. He's got everything there.

Leaving that matter aside: I agree with Boro's post #349 .

Way I see It, we shouldn't lynch Skip nor Wilwa today. I trust Wilwa, I dunno about Skip, but It's not worth the risk. And even with all that Skip's innocent forced gifted fake-reveal, in attempt to lure the real gifted out? What the hell that was? :mad: It's all just way too crazy.

Wait, what? I sense a contradiction here. So you wanted her to stay hidden, but also to reveal?

This really doesn't help you case, Skippy.




Also, excuse me while my brain explodes.


edit: x-ed with Greenie

You keep forgetting how this whole craziness begun. I faced the gallows and was trying to bring down Legate instead. The hunter-reveal was a spur of the moment ploy that would have been greatif Legate was guilty. Since he wasn't that put me and the village in a tricky spot and I deemed that keeping up the fake hunter-claim had it's advantages. If Wilwa had stayed hidden, which seemed likely for a good while, the scenario was perfect. I would not risk getting lynched, and Wilwa, who I now knew to be the hunter, wasn't suspected anyway. Now, with the present situation, we at least know that Wilwa truly is the hunter, right?

Will post more with my take on who the baddies are (at least for me the fog is beginning to lift, or so it seems)...

Yeah well ya know what ended up happening because of this whole thing? People spent most of the day talking about whether to go for me or Skip, and now 3 hours before DL we have to look elsewhere, with not a lot of time to do so.
He caused us to waste our Day with that little scheme, and I'm not impressed.

Our options then, assuming no one plans to lynch me, and assuming we're all too paranoid to lynch Skip (despite how badly I want too)

Nogrod
Boromir
Ozban
Lottie
Eonwe
Inziladun
Greenie

And I don't know. Everyone goes back and forth to looking bad and looking good, and you're all just too good at this game. I need to think more.

x'ed with Steve and Skip

Coming back into the latest soap opera development...

Heh. I almost did that too.

Agreed. It seems a convoluted ploy for an innocent to make. And a Cobbler should have been ready to take a lynch for the wolves yesterDay, instead of saving xemself.

Right before yesterDay's DL, skip, who was looking like the lynchee of the Day, told me directly that I "had good reason not to vote for him". I took that as him saying he was the Hunter and had chosen me, which is why I voted Legate.

You don't want to lynch either of them? Who, then?

x/d with Steve, skip, and Wilwa

Finland lost 1-2 with a goal on the very last second of the game... :(

So I'm not willing to lose this as well toDay.

I do have a problem with all this now. I really do. I'll check a few things and will be back shortly.

Greenie: I can tell you what you are missing - Skip threathened Zil at the last minutes yesterDay - that was his "hunter-reveal" - and Inzil made sure Skip doesn't die (at least that is what it looks like). Today he only "came open" with it.

Like the hell I know!

Whom do you want to see on the stake?

Ah. Figured. I noticed that too but somehow my brain didn't connect it to this "self-protection vote" -thing. Makes much more sense now. Thanks.

OK, I think I'm going to vote for a quieter person or someone who doesn't stand out to me as much, because all the louder ones today I feel better about (ie Boro, Nog and Lottie).

So I think I'll vote for someone out of Eonwe, Inzil, Ozban and Greenie. Though I'd love to vote Skip, but in the off chance he's telling the truth or is just a Cobbler, I kind of want to gamble to get a Wolf.

I'd really like to get more people's thoughts on people other than me and Skip, cause I need to vote in the next 25ish minutes (basically before my class ends).

x'ed with Greenie

Well if we want someone from there, I am currently the most uncomfortable with Lottie, followed by Nogrod. Lottie has seemed all too sure about this madness today. If Skip's not a wolf, and he did this scheme as an innocent which dragged out the real hunter, the wolves are having a field day today.

With the way these lynches have completely been botched so far, sure it's risky to Skip and he turns up innocent...but what about the risk in not voting for someone who as Eonwe has now pointed out just seems to be crappin' out answers as he goes along. Doesn't matter how much he contradicts himself now, it just seems like he's throwin' out whatever "don't lynch me" excuse he can come up with at this point.

Whatever it is that we decide to go with today, Skip's going in my personal time out corner list. After this stunt, if you're innocent I really don't care, I'm just going to pretend you're in timeout and thus can't speak. :rolleyes:

Okay here's the people left (I'm excluding me):

Wilwa
Boro
Nogrod
Greenie
Eonwe
Inziladun
Ozban
Lottie

Of those I scratch Wilwa immediately. She is the hunter I'm sure.

Boro and Nogrod have been complete question-marks for me up until now, but at present I'm willing to bet that none of them are wolves. They both seem genuine today. It is not beyond the realm of possibilities that one of them have been fooling me so far, but if so, I can only applaud.

That leaves:
Greenie, Inziladun, Ozban, Lottie and Eonwe.

If I'm right, only one out of those five are innocent.

Now I was impressed with Inziladun's analysis on Ozban here: #336

Inzil sharply list many of the unnerving inconsistencies in Ozban's voting and reasoning. He looks even worse to me since I know I'm innocent. Also, Inzil's choice of questioning Ozban suggests that at least they are not wolves together.

Eonwe has also voted Lottie repeatedly, and suspecting her for most of the game. Am I not right Eonwe?

This would suggest that Lottie and Eonwe aren't wolves together, especially since Lottie has been suspected rather heavily right from the start.

So between between Inzil, Ozban, Lottie and Eonwe, there are probably two wolves I think. Feel best about Inzil at the moment.

Which leaves me with Greenie.

I am almost certain she is a wolf.

Please have a look at my detailed post on her earlier toDay as well. She's evil I tell you!

I understand you (innocents) can't share that feeling wholeheartedly and I'm sorry for putting you thought this. But I did what I felt I had to do.

Not a contradiction. I immediately understood that Wilwa was the hunter judging by her behaviour after my fake-reveal. That's what I mean by revealing to me. I also felt that an immediate open counter-reveal would be okay (though less preferable) as we then would get a known innocent, and I hoped that you would believe my explanation too.

Gah, class is over early. I have to go and won't be back before DL. :confused:

So I'm going to vote

++Lottie

I know I just finished saying that I feel ok with her today, but that's only been today, I've suspected her every other day and hunted her twice. We have gotten close to lynching her more than once, and I think the fact that we've consistently suspected her means we should just go for it, there must be a reason we kept going back to her.

Good luck everyone. *crosses fingers*

x'ed with Skip, whom I still do not trust at all...

You, perhaps?

Or lynch him Day 1 to be on the safe side. :rolleyes:

x/d with skip and Wilwa

So, it's football here too, and in order to make my intentions clear:

++Greenie

Edit; xed with Wilwa and Inzil and I'm sorry for it. It's a shame we voted differently. By all means, innocent people, go for Lottie if you want to (she is very suspicious) but don't spread you votes I beg of you!

Now what if I were to say that I am the real Hunter?
Ok, ok, just joking. :p



*Picks up pieces of brain scattered around the room*

Ok, but seriously: :eek:


So, in reality, I think it makes more sense that Wilwa is really the hunter. Skip, on the other hand, I'm not sure.

These are the possibilities (all of the ones possible):

1. Wilwa is the hunter and Skip is innocent.
2. Wilwa is the hunter and Skip is a Cobbler.
3. Wilwa is the hunter and Skip is a Wolf.
4. Wilwa is an innocent and Skip is the Hunter.
5. Wilwa is an innocent and Skip is a Wolf.
6. Wilwa is an innocent and Skip is the Cobbler.
7. Wilwa is an innocent and Skip is an innocent.
8. Wilwa is the Cobbler and Skip is the Hunter.
9. Wilwa is the Cobbler and Skip is an innocent.
10. Wilwa is the Cobbler and Skip is a wolf.
11. Wilwa is a Wolf and Skip is the Hunter.
12. Wilwa is a Wolf and Skip is an innocent.
13. Wilwa is a Wolf and Skip is the Cobbler.
14. Wilwa is a Wolf and Skip is a Wolf.

Ok, now the scenario for each:

1. What Skip wants us to believe is the truth. We have no other proof, but it is a possibility, as innocents may sometimes pretend to be Gifteds in order to try to help the village, but if you like at his reasoning it is contradictory, so it doesn't really seem as though he's thought it through enough for this.

2. More likely. Skip tries to stay alive until toMorrow (his reveal is so that the wolves don't kill him until then), and can then assist the wolves in order to let them clinch the game. In addition, it adds more confusion, and would allow him to say things that the rest of the village would trust as an almost certain Innocent. Luckily, Wilwa intervened.

3. Skip tries to save himself yesterDay, and has to back it up toDay with a Hunter reveal. Benefits are that he is likely not to get lynched and that him not getting killed would not raise any suspicion (though it wouldn't really, what with him being a top suspect yesterDay, but maybe he thought to just in case). On the other hand, it is risky, especially if the real Hunter does eventually reveal, as was the case.

4. Wilwa is trying to shield Skip the Hunter, so wolves won't see a threat in him in the hope that they would vote him in the Night, to the same effect (but with less risk). Or she could be trying to get him lynched to let him possibly take down a wolf, and make it a Now-or-never situation at the end of toDay. On the other hand, she could think he's a Wolf or Cobbler and is trying to call him out on it and get him lynched. That is also an option.

5. See 4.

6. See 4.

7. Both are innocent. Both are trying to shield the true Hunter. Each may think it's the other (more likely on Wilwa's reveal) or think that the Hunter is still out there. Any of them might also be trying to draw out wolves, but this is a much more likely possibility for Skip's reveal, and he's not saying Wilwa is suspicious. Or, as Skip suggested for himself, any of them might be trying to get the Hunter out in the open (again, more likely for Skip's but Wilwa may just be intensifying it).

8. Wilwa counter-reveals to cast us into doubt over Skip's reveal. Mass confusion ensues. Skip then tries to hide himself, hoping he can hide behind a hopefully innocent person trying to help him, but may be trying to get Night-killed.

9. Skip may be telling the truth, and then Wilwa may have just been trying to confuse us all by counter-revealing instead of the real Hunter, in order to stay alive another Day and Night.

10. Skip fake-reveals to save himself and has to back it up. Wilwa realises he is a wolf and tries to cover him, and he accepts. Unlikely because it requires some co-ordination. Or maybe Wilwa thinks he's innocent and tries to get him lynched. Or Wilwa thinks he really is the hunter and tries to undermine him, which he uses to use advantage by hiding behind her.

11. Skip reveals because he feels he needs to, for whatever reason (claim yesterDay, the right time, etc.). Wilwa tries to undermine him (very risky) so that he both isn't trusted, and so that effectively has lynch-protection, and won't arouse suspicion if not killed. Alternatively, she could be trying to test whether he really is the Hunter so that she knows whether to avoid him at Night. Or she thinks he is the Cobbler, and is somehow trying to co-ordinate something for toMorrow or might be sacrificing him for the good of her wolf-pack. Or she thinks he's innocent and shielding the Hunter, and just wants to discredit him, or maybe help bring out the real Hunter.

12. Skip is telling the truth. Wilwa thinks he is the Hunter and tries to undermine him. Or Wilwa thinks he's an innocent trying to shield the Hunter and wants to bring out the Hunter. Or Wilwa thinks he's a Cobbler and is trying to show him that she knows he's one.

13. Wilwa knows he's the cobbler and tries to show him. Wilwa thinks he is the Hunter and tries to undermine him. Wilwa thinks he is an innocent and tries to force him to admit that he's not really the Hunter, and so discredits him.

14. Both Wolves. A cunning plan to confuse us all for the rest of the Day and hopefully both survive.




I personally think 1 or 2 is the most likely, but because of what Wilwa said earlier, I don't think we should dismiss 4 totally. And 7 is always an option.


Note: I started this post about an hour ago, so my thoughts may have slightly progressed by the end from what they had in the beginning.


edit: actually x-ed with Greenie too (same post as last time, i.e., the long one).

My english may be getting rusty, but you don't count yourself as innocent?

Actualy this whole post seems as something only a wolf would write.

I could also state my knowledge of my innocence, but realizing I have no way to convince you, I do not. You keep only repeating: "I'm innocent! I'm innocent!" Scared puppy I say.

Okay, let me be straight with this.

So you Skip say you are an innocent who came up with this great idea of fakely threathening another player to be taken with you if you die ie. pretending to be the hunter - and you decided to pick Inzil as your target. And you did that in the last minute hassle?

Okay, even if I do find this threathening others at last minute panic as quite an odd way for an innocent to behave, I do admit that even innocents might play it rough and tough to stay alive sometimes. But if you're innocent, did it ever occur to you that Leg could be the hunter? In the worst case scenario we might have lost two innocents because of your trick.

This gives me some headache too: How did you "know" she was the hunter before she revealed? Some suitable hindsight to boost the cleverness of your "theory"?

Okay. I hope you see it makes perfect sense to see you as a wolf who had to make a panic-save yesterDay and after looking at how people seemed to trust wilwa realised you had good chances of facing the gallows... and needed to change tactics?


Ooops! A lot of x'posting and voting going on....

No. Because you were, again, in danger of being lynched. This threw another wrench into things, and it looks like it's working - there's a lot of talk now about lynching someone else entirely. So, for a wolf, it does, in fact, make sense.

Wanted to mention that this theory makes a lot of sense. Not sure why else I quoted...I think there was a pressing reason at the time...

Skip has been manipulating people a lot lately - first Zil with his baseless threat, and now you with his fake reveal. I can't see an innocent (other than tp) doing that. A wolf, maybe.

This did not have advantages for the village as a whole. It had advantages for you.

And the fact that she's suspected you for Days has nothing to do with it?

The underlined part is what caught my eye. It sounds forced and almost like he's a paniced wolf. Your detailed post did not convince me at all. The only thing persuasive about this persuades me that you're evil. Sorry, but I don't buy it.

EDIT: x'd since the Skip post I quoted

Someone stated before, that in order to prevail, we need to lynch a wolf tonight, and to do that we need all innocents to vote together.

I trust Wilwa and she voted already. Lottie would not be my first pick, but I should probably vote her, "for the sake of the crew".

What do others think?

I was highly suspicious of Legate already and voted him the previous day. So, no, it didn't occur to me.
She did squirm like a worm on the hook, while all others seemed to believe me.

Aye, scared puppy as I said above.

Do we have enough space left to lynch Skip? Still there's possibility of him being cobbler, this Greenie-accusation would be fitting his goals in that case.

Okay, time-out for me... really.

I admit, I love this game because of these situations where the different scenarios, bluffs and all that stuff just blow your mind off. But this is just plain crazy. :confused:

This comes off as somewhat arrogant. Sorry, but yeah. I'm still wanting to lynch you. Is everyone else agreed that we absolutely will not? Because otherwise, I'm pretty sure we'll get a wolf here.

Yes, it's a shame they all decided to vote for their suspicions instead of blindly following you.

By the way, don't lynch me. I'm an ordo. Lynching me toDay would be bad. Of course you can't believe me. But I've sort of got to put it out there.

I'd vote him. But I don't know about anyone else, and I'll be holding my vote for a while yet. Not until a minute before DL, though - that'd be chaotic and more likely than not would end up with a bad choice.

Oh man, I just counted and that double post just does it. We're doomed now. The best we can do is match the baddies and hope to get lucky with the flip of the coin.

*gives up and leaves for the football match*

Yep, it requires whether I believe that or not. For as much as I've looked through the messy lynch Day 1 and have not been trusting of your involvement in it...you've definitely been more trusty than Skip. Not sure if that's much comfort though, because now Skip is looking unhinged I can't see the wolves going crazy like this when they have this game completely wrapped around their paws so far. Even if he was nearly lynched yesterday, surely the wolves wouldn't get panicky about trying to escape that situation?

I do suggest no matter his role, just pay no attention to him. If you're innocent, no offense Skip, but I think it's a well deserved ignorance. If you're the cobbler or a wolf, then good, don't want to hear what you have to say anyway.

But hey, vote Lottie, she's definitely bad to the bone!

xed with Boro and added: or Greenie but don't spread the votes

If Skip isn't a wolf, he's being totally absurd. His stunt makes no sense for an innocent. I'd feel most confident about lynching him, but if he's telling the truth it absolutely sucks. Of the others, I'd prefer Eonwe. I'm not really fond of trying Lottie.


EDIT: x-ed with Ozban's 386

Yeah. That sounds like you believe it. "Definitely"? You can't say that unless you're the Seer. You're not. So you can't say it. You haven't even mentioned that you looked at me. You've barely mentioned that you suspect me. And now I'm "definitely" evil? Riiiight.

EDIT: x'd with and agree'd with Greenie

Skip... You know what. So be so good, please.

Boro your suggestion isn't that helpful, we got no idea whom to lynch, we could go with lottie, since wilwa started it, but do we want to?

:eek: I'm gonna go nuts soon!

But lately has Skip been acting, as if he wanted us to lynch him, that can either be cobbler trick, or wolfish double trick to lead us into believing he's a cobb, thus to ignore him.

That was said more out of frustration to Skip if he is really innocent. But you and me both.

I need more time and tea. Tea will be of great help. Gimme half an hour.

Edit: crossed with Ozzy

It is possible both Skip and wilwa are innocents.

But I do think it more probable they are not. In that case I'd say Skip is the baddie.

To me the question becomes then: is the risk of lynching Skip worth taking?

The answer to me is: if we find a candidate that looks more like a wolf than him, then let's go. If not, then rather Skip than wilwa (Skip has already confessed he has lied and that wilwa is the hunter).

EDIT: X'd with a host once again...