Bird:

That'll work.

About the sacrifices: Silm, page 273 (bottom): Sounds to me like extended torture (spilling of blood and great wickedness) followed by burning. I'll send you what I've written for the night before the rescue in a PM. And actually, I forgot about the burning part; if they cremated the bodies completely, what need for graves? "Certified whoops." Maybe they weren't that dogmatic about it... maybe they still bury the charred skeletons? Too bad I didn't think about that a long, long time ago. Too late now.

So check your PM for that post. Comments welcome.

(edit) the paragraph above that in the Silm is a pretty detailed description of the temple, which you would want for the dragon's eye view. You going inside? Or staying out in the fresh air?

It's tempting to say, Aww, go inside! But then, wouldn't something THAT spectacular have made it into the Alkallabeth? "Except for that one night where a black dragon with a whilte stripe flew in and made off with the sacrifices. Where did it come from? And why didn't it settle for pony meat, more easily had outdoors?" [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Oh, and the walls are fifty feet thick, so the tunnel to get in might be a bit cramped. Guess I'd better edit my own post for that too.

[ October 12, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Helen and Bird---

Regarding flood:BTW, I assume the hobbits are not told that there's going to be a flood. Is that a 'secret'? One would think so.

Dragons: The idea of a dragon ambush is right if the rescue is done at the last minute when Sauron can do little to respond. The hobbits can get on the dragon's back to fly off. In fact it reinforces our idea later of the two dragons destroying all evidence so Sauron has less idea of what actually happened. Is this a week before the drowning of Numenor? I assume Sauron will keep looking for dragons after we leave.

BTW, To reinforce the image of a dragon attack, shouldn't Angara and Bird do a flying sweep overhead before the actual invasion begins? Then they would go back to their "assignments"

Who's being sacrificed? Gamba and Azraph would be alright as sacrifices, but isn't Gamba too young? Helen-- I thought you told me once that they weren't taking kids. Actually, I don't see why they wouldn't get rid of kids. In modern times, in camps like these, the young and old are first to go.

One wonders why they would have let a little thing like Maura live. i.e. He just eats and doesn't produce. However, it's possible that they aren't as organized or thorough as we would be today. Or that the guards get a 'kick' out of random terror so nobody knows from one minute to the next what's going on. (Maybe the latter?)

Locks: The Locks scene is no problem without Gamba. It will put extra pressure on Daisy and Anee as the person leading the whole thing (Gamba) is suddenly unavailable. It will also open up the scene for Kali. I assume Bird/Daisy would get a message through somehow as the front ship lands, and tell them Gamba's been seized and the Locks needs extra help FAST. That would be Kali's clue--perhaps with a few of the hobbrim as well.

Men in prison--Major concern in story The whole situation of the men in prison bothers me. There are several problems here. First, we have to cover our tracks in such a way that Sauron will not realize it's a 'hobbrim' rescue. He thinks it's a general prison break. Just what does that involve?

How close is the Man prison to the hobbit prison? This question will make a big difference in how we handle things. Are the men near the hobbits or separate?

Imagine what Mith is going to be thinking. As he fights, he's going to realize every Man in there is doomed, whether or not the man gets out of prison. And you have to assume that a number of the men incarcerated are the Faithful. Ouch, that hurts!!

In fact none of us should be feeling too good about that! Don't you think this is going to begin to bother some of the folk on the Star--Mith especially, but even Pio and Cami. Do you think Mith or Pio would ever raise these questions with Idril? Remember at the beginning of the tale Cami had a dream that this quest would be painful because there would be many, many things we can't fix on our own:

Does this need to be dealt with in the story on some level? i.e. reflection and soul searching.

Contact with men: Given this scenario, how can we have any contact with the Men? Screaming and running away sounds good. Infact, I think we could assume that, given the tumult of the rescue, many Men would take advantage of the chaos to run off. Do we do anything to help that along, or not?

sharon

[ October 12, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

SHaron,

I've never had any contact with the men in this prison! There are men here besides the guards??? [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

I guess that means they've been very, very separate?

Yes Gamba is too young, but he's also too darned popular after he's won a week straight of Candlestones. Too good for morale. Out with him. Same with Azraph. Tarkil wants the morale level to plummet again, so he take the two most prominent game players. Yeah, he breaks the rule, we can underline that somewhere if we need to.

I forget, did I send you the Meneltarma post or did I only send those to Bird? I think I owe you that.

Gee, Gamba and Azraph get a dragon ride out of the deal? Cool.

Sharon, there has already been some soul-searching on the subject of the guards; "Al the men must die" or something to that effect. Mith brought it up, or Pio, maybe it was discussed between the two. It should resurface as an old argument, not be a new one?

[ October 12, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

I think I've finally caught up... but one thing: at this point and time, wouldn't the only Men in prison be of the Elendili? It says that they were often times slaughtered, put to prison, or any of the likes. Should they escape eastwards and find Elendil anchored off the east coast towards Middle-earth?

Flood a secret? Except for Gamba's dream, I guess, is that what you mean? Elders & Phura know about the dream.

(GreatWarg, sounds good to me.)

Sharon

Mithadan and Cami will have to soul search these problems. Pio is in battle mode for now, and focused only on two objectives - assuring the success of the rescue by any means and assuring the safety of Daisy, if it does not conflict with the first objective. The fate of the Men in this particular case does not concern her.

[ October 12, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

I think Great Warg has a good idea. There's still a week before the flood. If we can just unlock the Man's central compound, they could make their way out in the chaos and then run away to the coast to board the ships with the other faithful. Is this something that the character of Mithadan would devise in the story line? Mithadan, you know this history better than we do. Is this realistic?

It would cover the fact that our main goal is the hobbits, and would also give the Men
a chance to live.

sharon

Mith, Helen, Bird, Pio --

Please check for an e-mail. sharon

Hang on, swimming Pio. Birdie's comin' to get ya!

SHARON

I have posted the first section of the 'meeting'. Will post Pio's reply when I get up (it's now 3 am here! -- Yawn!) I'll then post your next section and reply to it, and so on and so forth!!!!

Can we open up their main compound to give the Men a chance to run for it, and make it up to the ships of Elendil, Isildur, or Anarion? This would also cover up the fact that our real target is the Men. Romenna looks to be about 100 miles away.

I sent the above in a pm to Mithadan. Anyone else have feelings on this. Is it realistic?

sharon

My only concern is: this started out to be a stealth operation. Is it growing now to a point that it should have made it into the annals of Numenorean history? Big jailbreak just before the sinking where lots of men flooded to the nine ships sounds like something Tolkien would have mentioned.

You're a softie like me, Sharon, and I love you for it. But could the nine ships have handled, as additional crewmembers and passengers, an entire prison's worth of faithful?

In the same vein: I love the Black Dragon Rescue-- but if we make too spectacular, like open confrontation with Gorthaur, we lose credibility. (Why wasn't that mentioned in the Alkallabeth?)

The Gondolin work was easily blended into existing history; the characters were minor, or, when we included Tuor and Idril, the events were easily overlooked by the writers of What Was Important. Let's not lose that. Our rescue/escape battle is expanding and expanding, and it makes me nervous for the same reason. Ulmo's fog or not, we're heading for non-anonymity if we're not careful.

[ October 13, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Please look at the 'MEETING' post and the responses from Pio. I had to change/edit some of the posts of Sharon and Helen a little - to fit in with what Pio says and to take out any references to Mithadan being at this meeting.

Let me know if anything needs editing.

[ October 13, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

Pio,

Just that Sharon really wanted this to be in the tombs and not by the forge/ smithy, so Gamba can't draw his map in ashes taken from the forge, the way I had originally written the map. Suggestion: How about if he draws it on a dusty sarcophagus lid?? (eeew)

Helen -

You wrote that post. I only pasted it on to the story. (The ashes from the forge - correct?)

You will need to email me with the changes she/you want done.

I can then edit them in.

[ October 13, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

Today gametime is:

14 Cermië

7 days to Teleri arrival

8 days to rescue

"Such a pair you are."

Mith, that was a great post. Still chuckling. --Helen

Thank you. I've spent some time reading the "Underpowered Characters" thread and counting Mith's flaws. We can now add to the list "bad judgment when over-tired".

Somebody had mentioned an "and then several more days went by" sort of post, is that in the plan?

[ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Helen - can you clarify the post you are referring to?

Since this is seems to be a very busy week for many of the writers, I'd like to see us hold off on the rescue.

Mithadan and Pio, I believe, have just resolved some barriers in their relationship and will now be moving forward in a more team oriented approach.

These two still have to go back upriver to take out the black-bannered ship, and sail it back for us to use to take Cami and Rose upriver to the caverns.

We can compress time then, moving directly to our taking them to the caverns.

Or see my alternative proposal which I just added to the RPG thread. We can either work it out there or I can edit it as need be.

Pat: Somebody made the suggestion a while ago, I can't remember who. If it's not needed that's fine. I was just wondering what the plan was. I can go either way.

Everyone

I just did a whopping big post before Mithadan's last post in a space I had reserved.

This post ties together thematically the Pio/Mith and the Gamba/Este scenes of affection. They are very different, but I do see interlacing. I modestly gave us a bit of cosmic significance. Ah, who doesn't think the stars shine brighter when they are in love?

Interestingly, the characters of Phura, Bird, and Cami, all felt a similar sense of inadequacy on seeing one of the happy couples. None of this was planned or synchronized, so I've tried to tie that together as well.

Cami has had a conversation with Ancalimon which should repair some of her heartache. There are things in here which also set up her later adoption of Gamba.

Ah, Mithadan, you are now going to do a Pio and sneak out as well together! Is Cami supposed to be quiet about this? What will Rose and I do while you are slitting throats?

sharon

You'll be listening to Traffic Eight Tracks on the skiff (no disrespect intended -- Traffic is one of my favorites and I am old enough to remember Eight Tracks).

Well, if we're into oldies, I'll bring my Joni Mitchell and Joan Baez and Judy Collins along! But you may have to tie Rose down or threaten her with dire consequences if she leaves the ship.

Half way serious question to anyone: How many months ago did we depart from Beleriand on dragonback? 2 or 3?

sharon

Well, that depends if you mean real time or game time. Real time, its been over 2 months if I recall. Game time, I'd bet its been less than 45 days.

Your post was touching. Cami's loss has been the greatest of all and we tend to forget it. As wound up as Mith has been with the quest and Pio, he has clumsily attempted to bring Bird back into the fold, which her character interpreted (wrongly) as an offer to be a nanny. He also appears to have made his peace with the extraordinarily moody Angara. But Cami and Rose have been forgotten. Knowing Mith, he will remember 'ere the end.

Pio will leave Cami and Rose her David Byrne CD's.

You can listen to 'Fuzzy Freaky' and 'Wicked Little Doll' and think of us on our guerilla action!

Well, then Birdies bringing her Ramones, X, and Talking Heads CD's. Can't think of a better songs to play going into battle then "The Blitzkrieg Bop" or "Life During Wartime". [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

Let's see . . . for those balmy summer nights on the Star - How about a little dancing to The Buena Vista Social Club!

Bird:

YES!!! The Ramones AND Talking Heads!!!!!! Don't know X - tell me 'bout 'em! (or him or her, as the case might be)

I was going to put Headcase Heidi lyrics (by Joey) from Mondo Bizarro here - but . . .

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

Timeline Question

It remains 14 Cermië.

Shall we move the storyline along? Have we set up all we needed on the Star, and in the caverns for now?

Mithadan and Pio will be taking Cami/Rose - Nitir/Azra to the caverns, and also meet with the Elders. As it stands now, on our way there, we will take out the black-bannered ship docked halfway up the river, thus combining two of our necessary upriver excursions.

I'd like to deliver Cami and Rose the night of 19 Cermië. That will give them the 20th and 21st Cermië there before we stage our rescue on the night of 22 Cermië.

Does this give everyone enough time to finish up details for their characters?

It seems many of us writers are busy this week - I know I have 2 very long shifts over the next two days at the hospital.

Can we hold off and do this starting next week. I think once we get the ship taken and the second meeting done with the prison Hobbits, the story should roll fairly quickly through the rescue scenes.

Then we move to the choosing scenes, et al, and bid a fond farewell to this adventure *sniff* (at least in Game form, that is!).

Pio --

Either you or the Man need to respond to Cami's request on the thread to have her and Rose stay inside the prison and not return to the Star.

Also, I need to do a brief post indicating Gamba has given the cell keys to Daisy. But this is not tied to any special day. She will begin the Locks revolt by unlocking the cell door at midnight the night of the rescue.

Helen--

Doesn't Gamba need to get some small daggers into Anee and Daisy ahead of time? And let's get one or two more sturdy hobbits sentences in the Locks so they can help us as well. Could you work on this, or do you need me to do it?

It seems to me the first job in the Locks will be for a prisoner to sneak out and steal the guard's weapons. He has presumably dozed off lightly by midnight. Then he/she would unlock the central compound as well as the individual cell doors.

You had suggested the following:

The only thing that would change is that the people with weapons coming from the new mines won't have to deal with the internal guards or open the cells themselves. They'll still be needed to prevent other guards from trying to get in. (i.e. prevent ingress). Those from the Graveyard and Smithy will do justas you've written.

Would that fit in alright? We can confirm that minor change at the last planning session, the one where Cami comes.

sharon

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Sharon, go right ahead with all of it. My week off is now over!

I'll email you everything (Everything) that I have so far right up until Rescue Night. Bird has seen some of it. Let me know what you need/want in light of that.

Grace & peace, --Helen

Helen --

Ah, back to the salt mines!! Hope the pile of work left for you is not too bad.

I will confiscate a hobbit or two to get stuck in the Locks within the next day.

sharon

I'm falling behind again. I not even sure what you're all talking about but I want to be sure that Rose is there is the caves. She will fight. She won't be a burden. Rose will remember all that Pio has said and give it all she's got.

I don't really know what I'm talking about and It will take me awhile to read everything to understand so could someone please tell me what's happening right now in the story. Please.

Rose,

I'll send you a pm when I get back from work. That is at lunchtime.

sharon

Let me re-ask this:

It is still 14 Cermië, but has moved to night.

Shall we compress some days now and take Cami and Rose upriver?

I'd like to drop them off the night of 19 Cermië/taking out the river ship on the way.

Will most of us be free to handle this starting Monday of next week?

Then after a few posts for Cami to see to the hobbits and review their battle plan, shall we move to the arrival of the Teleri. Pio will have to have a post here to apprise them of her transfer plan and Mithadan will need to go over the overall rescue plan with them.

Then we stage the rescue and transfer to Menltarma, one year later, eh?!

Does this sound doable for next week?

I'm incredibly busy right now so next week is fine. I likely won't post until tomorrow or tonight.

I'm supposed to have a plan for the rescue?

Yes, O Captain! An actual plan would be nice!

Or at least refer to the fact that you have thoroughly discussed it Pio, and you trust her to discuss it with the Elves.

Though - I thought the hobbits will probably want to hear something about it from the Man, when we go to the meeting with Cami and Rose.

Telling them that you simply intend to jump off the lead ship, brandishing your sword wildly as you leap into the fray, will hardly inspire confidence among them.

******************************************

Good, then - if the rest of the writers are agreed - we will take Nitir and Azra upriver next week, assasinate the 5 man crew, and possibly proceed all the way to the actual rescue.

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

Pio --

Yes, I just saw your note about taking me upriver next Monday. That is good as I still have one or two little things to do.

Bird and I have been AWOL because we are debating something with long, abstruse letters on a Books thread. Better get back to work here!

One whole year? Not that it makes any difference, but why do we jump back so late?

sharon

Yes, I have been reading that interesting discussion between you two.

We jump forward a year after the Fall - by then the sea will have receded, Meneltarma will be again a welcoming site.

It matters not when we get there - we can time shift back to the appropriately needed time for the deposit of the hobbits at any point.

We can also send some of the elven ships home - there won't be as many to transport.

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]