I'm here and I've read the first 5 pages and the tally, and I have to be off again to show a 'downish tourist around the city... but I'll be back in the afternoon.

This far I have to admit I'm not impressed - too much banter, silly quarrels and getting the seer and another person killed on Day1? How does that happen anyway? (Just a rhetorical question, I will find out once I read more. :))

Well, obviously, you just needed me to be around. :Merisu:

And then one more thing - I shouldn't come back to ww after almost two months of being away because I can't get a hang of the game and I mix up all the new people. (Nessa, autume and Alona keep getting mixed up in my head, although I think I can recognise Nessa 'cos she seems to make more sense than at least half of the old faces. ;) Anyway, no problem, I love playing with new people because I don't know what to expect from them!)

So, play well all ye cuddlefish, see you again soon!

Oh yeah! It's the only reason I was up at 5 this morning! How is it that it's my day sleeping in and I end up waking up way early? :rolleyes:

So I'm catching up on posts. I haven't gotten through them all yet. I read yours and had to post. ;)

I really don't see Rikae as being a wolf. I'm not really sure where people see her as being suspicious. I don't think she's the bear either. It seems like her points have been sound to me. Nothing has jumped out at me saying wolf or bear. Then again I haven't been playing that long so maybe you see something I haven't.

Yes I wish I would've listened to you. I should have just left my vote then the Seer would still be alive. Unfortunately, I can't go back and undo what I did.

You mentioned setting an artificial deadline so I'm just curious as to why you voted at the last minute as well? Granted your vote didn't affect anybody. Like I said I'm just curious.

Now off to finish catching up!

Well I have finished getting caught up.

I'm not sure what to think of phantom, but then it seems like a lot of the old-timers can't get a handle on him either so I don't feel so bad about that.

Anyone have any thoughts on what he said here?

!truh niarb s'resreveR ehT sekam nokaH ,daed nehw nevE
 

I said this earlier:

However, having re-read that section, I see that the only living players Hakon could have been referring to are Mira and the phantom. He did in fact claim to suspect both of them– but probably not in a way that would have alarmed the bear, unless said bear was very easily panicked. He starts off suspecting Mira for having been the first to post, then appears to switch after this post:

So it looks as if the phantom was Hakon's new "suspect". It's not clear what Hakon was accusing him of, or on what grounds– since he also agrees with everything phantom says in this post(!); Rikae (#42) apparently saw it as a cobbler-Hakon pointing out a possible gifted-phantom. I've already suggested that the bear may have thought Hakon was the cobbler.

Nice to have you back, Lommy!:)

Just to clear something up: Fea wasn't lynched, she dropped out.

Um, what? You aren't making sense - and I apologize if it's a joke, but it looks like you first concluded that I'm probably evil because I interacted a lot with the deceased, which makes no sense at all. Why would I choose a kill that would draw so much attention to me, when I'm already probably the most suspected person in this game? I assure you, I'm a better player than that.
Also, Pitchwife was lynched - for obvious reasons - and I didn't interact with Lari at all, except to say she should contribute more, so I'm really not sure what you're driving at with "both" Pitchwife and Hakon.

As for being framed, I get that feeling, too. I think that may be the bear's motive for killing Hakon, that is - trying to look like I did so out of annoyance or something...? Well, you don't have to believe me, of course, but I never have chosen a kill for such reasons (I've even ruled out kills because they might be perceived that way) and I never will. This is another instance of people expecting dishonorable behavior from an evil me, and I'm getting tired of it. I may be irritable, but I am honorable.

Mira and Inzil are looking suspicious to me because I get the feeling they're hopping on the easy lynch bandwagon du jour (me) with misleading reasons (Inzil, though he backed off it when pressed) or simply bizarre reasoning which screams "I gotta come up with some suspicion, but anything will do, since everyone dislikes and wants to lynch this person already anyway".

Yeah, I'm easy to lynch because I'm hot-tempered and people don't like me personally. I know that. But I am innocent and would really like a chance to be of use to you people, so please at least consider that possibility.

And now some clever person is bound to call the above a "crafty bid for sympathy" or something. Very well. I don't think I have a chance to survive toDay anymore anyway, but it would be nice if someone could sympathize me in the process of lynching me, anyway. I am actually a human being. :eek:

Well, I come back after last night's vote to a fine mess, don't I? Lynched the Seer, lost an ordo!Fea, and two other ordos in the Night.

Honestly, those who would look most dubious are Pitchwife voters, but here's something else: Wouldn't a wolf be more likely to inconspicuously slide into a bandwagon, rather than start or finish one so out in the open?

I know Tum seems suspicious because she was the deciding vote, but I don't think a wolf would do something that brings so much attention to them.

More thoughts, maybe a list, to come. :cool:

edit: crossed since Nerwen

Speak of the devil.

Nessa, you voted me yesterday for personal reasons, did you not? Talk about an easy way out...

Personal reasons? I do not recall saying "Rikae, I'm voting you for personal reasons."

It's nothing against you, just that the way you jumped out at Hakon, when he was only trying to help. You effectively stated that you did not like talking about useless subjects, like how bad Day one is, or the Bear, or surveys, and that worked to take the eyes off you, yet you persisted in actively participating in those same conversations, and steering the talk away from the most important subject-catching a baddie.

But no, I don't think you are a baddie, you've suceeded in catching the spotlight and no wolf would do anything to get so much scrutiny.

Interesting how you seem to be able to come out with me as a top suspect in every analysis.

Here, you just said that it wasn't something an experienced bear would do. Well, I am an experienced bear. I mentioned that before. In fact, I don't think anyone else won as a bear, making me THE experienced bear. By your own logic, I couldn't be it.

You said you were voting me because you didn't like the way I "jump down people's throats all the time" if I recall correctly. That sounds pretty personal to me.

To set the record straight:

I talked about the surveys after the mod's permission, without I would have considered it cheating.

I talked about the bear because I found phantom suspicious and wanted to say why.

I talked about Fea because I was trying to trap baddies.

Ah, sorry for defending myself so vehemently then. I saw that vote out of the corner of my eye, was reading the analysis posts, and replied right away.

Okay, I'll drop the matter, but I can't promise someone else won't pick it up. Now I find myself thinking you an ordo who likes to voice her opinion, rather than a baddie.

Now, The Phantom has somehow managed to stick himself both to the top and bottom of my suspicions. His part in finding Pitch innocent can be interpreted in multiple ways, but that is his own fault for not supporting words with actions. I can see him as maybe being a gifted, but that would be a stretch, and gifteds and baddies are often meshed together.

Sally looks innocentish.

Mira looks worrisome.

phantom's posts toDay look innocentish, at any rate.

Form is a bit cautious and under-reindeerish, which always merits a closer look.

Nessa I don't know, and she irritated me, not so sure how well I can read her.

Nerwen is also sleeping under my reindeer.

Mac hasn't posted yet toDay (because he was too tired) but I think he's innocent.

Inzil is looking bad, but may be the type I always suspect.

Nienna is really, really far under the reindeer.

morm looks relatively innocent, although he's making me mad.

alona and autume have not made an impression, really - I have to look again.

Lommy has not said enough to judge.

Anyone I forgot is forgotten. Take that as you will. (No offense to anyone I forgot).

Forgot Shasta and Durelin, which in itself suggests I should look at them...

also, these are two you could say I have strong opinions on in general. Shasta is one I tend to trust, and Durelin scares me. :eek:

I'm not sure if I should be glad or scared that you remembered me, Rikae. >_>

I've been asked to clean up part of the confusion with the Rules

This is not correct. The only gifteds who can ever PM are the BFFs. If Pitch did find a gifted he would not have been able to PM them, he would have only been able to discover their gift.

Nogrod isn't playing. ;)

More to come later, but I'm putting in a vote right now, because I'm, um, training my shadow-powers all day (read: reasons in admin thread) and won't be here most of the day!

++Mirandir for pointing out gifteds, which is how we caught Boro last game.

I was wasn't 'backing off'. I went to bed. ;)
And far from 'hopping on the easy lynch bandwagon' for you, I was the driver of that thar wagon, thank you very much.
I have a question about your Day 1 'trap' for the wolves regarding the Fea-voting after it had been declared she would be modfired. Why did you not immediately press any who appeared to take it seriously, specifically Brinn?
Would she not have been at least as tempting a vote as Pitchwife?


This does look bad. A serious slip, whether from a innocent or a baddie. Mac pointed it out to her quickly, but was that necessary just then? It was already there, and could not legitimately be edited out. Oddly enough she's also put in a vote for Rikae. Could mean nothing, though, as I think she even said she'd probably retract.

Due to school and air travel I won't be able to log on much if at all from this point forward. Sorry that I won't be very active.

++Rikae

She and Sally seem the most suspicious. Mira's comment seems a bit cobblerish and if that is so a decent lynch but I would rather go for a true baddie.

I wouldn't be jumping on your lynch-waggon just yet, Rikae, as I do think you were honestly framed. Mira's reply to my post that you were framed confused me a little - it seemed a little tongue-in-cheek, but could have been more.

Inzil...well, Lari suspected him. And, if we're to go off past games, in which Lari has been pretty darn good at suspecting people before (granted, her birdy was fighting for his life this time), I'd say Inzil deserves a closer look.

Now Morm seems to be doing the same thing I was accused of yesterday, hiding behind a vote. I agree with what Nessa said earlier - that Rikae is an ordo. For now, a placeholder vote while I run off to do some errands. I should be back in a few hours.

++mormegil

Or she was very tired and more stupid than usual when she wrote that she has bashing her head against a wall for the past 12 hours or so. There was a game in the recent past that had the three PMing and I got confused.

It was a joke.

Dear, I said I would probably retract my vote for you. Unless you do something super suspicious before deadline, chances are you won't be my final vote.

Ok I have to go to work now. Blah. Hopefully I don't have to come back and save myself.

For any who are of a similar mind, I'd like to point out that I could have changed my vote in favor of Pitchwife quite easily yesterDay, with little chance of appearing suspicious. 'Framing' Rikae I could have left for toDay.
As I've already said, the last votes for Pitchwife look better to me than the early ones for the reason that his flip-flopping and explanation for it did look highly peculiar.

I think the baddies, rather than being those deciding votes at the end of the bandwagons, were most likely the ones who hopped on in the very middle. Just a thought.

Current vote count:

Mira --> Rikae
Shasta --> Mira
Morm --> Rikae
Alona --> Morm

Rikae 2, Mira and Morm 1

It seems to me that before you even posted toDay, you could be fairly confident of the support of phantom and morm - two rather powerful allies, indeed.
post #301: post #307: But then, I think you're well aware of that, since you used it yesterday to make the case that I was inconsistent. Now you claim I never suspected them to try to discredit my trap claim?

If it wasn't a trap, why did I write "part 1" at the top, in your opinion?

As for why I didn't vote for them, partly, I was going along with what I thought was phantom's trap, and I was waiting to see what he did with it, only to realize he was serious. Secondly, I didn't find Brinn that suspicious. Her behavior seemed very much like what I know of her from previous games. Nienna, while slightly suspicious, didn't seem to have posted enough for me to make a confident judgment - however, I had her in mind when I stated that I was choosing Pitchwife on a "gut feeling". He reminded me of a wolf-Celuien Mac once caught, as well as other wolves I've seen over the years. Just because I intend something as a trap doesn't mean I don't analyze what it "catches", so to speak.
Voting a doomed player is not always suspicious, but certainly could have looked like a safe vote for a baddie, especially after what phantom said. I didn't particularly think Brinn acted like a baddie looking for a safe vote, and while Nienna kind of did, there was nothing else to go on with her.

But Inzil, I really think your mind is made up, and you have powerful allies, so I probably don't stand a chance... *shrug* I really don't get the impression you are really trying to discern my role, but simply looking for reasons to suspect me.

Thank you for the vote count, Nienna. What do you think of the voting yesterDay?



edit:crossed with Rikae

A few thoughts on our lack of a seer -
our remaining gifteds are now more important then ever, not only for their powers, but because they could become known innocents in the endgame, allowing us to find the final baddies by process of elimination. I've never played with sheriffs before, but it seems to me that, although they aren't allowed to both reveal at once, if they're clever perhaps they can leave a trail which will allow us to figure out the second sheriff after the first reveals, having two nearly known innocents when it really counts. For that to work we really have to keep our gifteds alive, though, and our gifteds have to be prepared to make their claims believable if/when they do reveal. phantom said this before, and I agree, especially now.
We also need to be careful not to simply lynch anyone who behaves oddly or annoys us (I have to keep telling myself this, too). General advice always falls short in some way, we can't foresee all possibilities, but in all my werewolfing history those have rarely been the wolves, and yesterDay reminded me of the chance that a nervous and defensive person is often gifted rather than evil. Not only don't I we want to lynch our gifteds, but we don't want to force them to reveal early on. Please, everyone (myself included) consider your votes carefully, don't simply go with the easy way out.

[/lecture]

Hakon voters:
-Morm
-Alona
-Sally
-Autume (later retracted and sealed Pitchwife’s demise)

Pitchwife voters
-Shasta
-Rikae
-Nienna
-Hakon
-Autume

I'm analyzing them currently but Fea and I are going out to finish buying cat things but I'll be back in a few hours to finish analyzing. So far I've made it through Morm and his early vote and then lock in for Hakon is unsettling to me.

"We"? What do you mean– oh, wait, it was you!:p

I'll tell you what I think: it's highly unlikely that there wasn't at least one wolf among the Pitchwife/Hakon voters. However, I currently don't have a clue who it is/they are.

I'm currently thinking of voting for Mira, mainly because of that post where she points out tp's supposed giftedness. However, as morm says, that's more a cobbler's stunt than a wolf's (or bear's for that matter).

EDIT:X'd with Nienna and Rikae.

Well... less than a full page of total accumulated postage is delightfully better than our Day 1 overnight accumulation. Especially since being among family means that I stayed up too late last night and woke up with a head full of mucus. Again.

Anyway, it looks like my family isn't going to be terribly distracting for at least a little while yet, so let's try and get a few posts in before lunch hits.

The first thought that comes to mind regards the suspicion generally surrounding Rikae from some quarters. My first thought--after a single read-through of the new posts, so I'm not necessarily picking up on everyone else's thoughts--is that insofar as she started the "lynch-Pitchwife" movement, that's probably not an indication of lupinity or ursinity, since it looks to me like Pitchwife was playing as unsuspicious a Seer as he could--which is the wise way to go on Day 1--even if you have caught a baddie (and there's no indication he did), the odds are high that you'll live to Day 2 with a second dream, unless you've given yourself away.

So, on face value as far as that goes, I really don't see Rikae as suspicious. Quite unfortunate, yes, but that tends to be a symptom of ordos more than wolves.

Although... Rikae has been defending herself rather vigorously--which is fair, since she's come under a fair amount of suspicion, I guess--but it's sending mixed signals to me in a sense. On the one hand, there's sort of an air of "Fine, whatever: I'm an ordo and you're going to kill me and I'm going to give you all the reasons you shouldn't"--a sense of not caring, in other words... but with a sort of consistent earnestness that, obviously, says she does care.

Of course, it does occur to me that human beings are wild and conflicted beings, capable of holding contradictory emotions and positions on identically the same issues... but it is something of an incongruity, and I don't know what to make of it...

Now... to go find other posts that sparked some thought and try and recapture that glow.

Thoughts.

1. I know Mira's slip was quite obvious, but I tried to point it out trying not to draw attention to it, and now people keep on quoting it! (Including the mod! :eek:) Personally, I believe she indeed simply made a mistake, though cobblery is possible.
Shasta jumped on it with gusto, a possible attempt of scapegoating, but not careful enough for it. Tending innocent.
Nerwen waits til Shasta steps ahead. Looks innocent, but I know better than to think she couldn't have faked it.
phantom joins in, but refrains from further comments, making him look more innocent.
Inzil: first says nothing, then goes after me. I ask you, why, as a baddie, would I have pointed it out at all (without accusing Mira at the same time!)? To alarm the ranger? You keep on throwing out vague suspicions without backing them up.
morm comments on it and what he says looks fair enough.

2. The early votes piling up against Rikae and Mira do not meet my approval.

3. I need a list to clear my mind:

For the moment, I trust (in the most loose definition of the word):
Form, Mira, Nienna, Rikae, Sally, Shasta, phantom

I'm doubtful about:
Alona, Autume, Brinn, morm, Nerwen

I'm clueless about:
Durelin, Lommy, Nessa

I suspect:
Inzil

Far more innocents than suspects, but having some sense of who you think you can trust is as valuable as having a sense of who to lynch, in my mind.

That last line bugs me... maybe it's just that you haven't experienced some of the wolves this site has produced, Nessa, but there are--or have been, anyway--wolves that would have willingly caught the spotlight (and hence, the scrutiny). And if you're going to pick a Day to do it, Day 1 is the Day, since it's a lot more reasonably possible to argue your way out or survive the aftermath (ie. "not get lynched") if it's on the basis of Day 1, and then in the game after that you seem to have a credibility of having been exonerated. It's not true, of course, because you haven't died and your role hasn't been found out, but I'd say, descriptively, that it works.

All of which said... I'm inclined to agree with you that Rikae is innocent, but your basic premise that a wolf would not have subjected him/herself to the spotlight doesn't fly for me, and I think its possible that we have a wolf or bear among yesterday's loudmouths. Maybe the phantom--he is certainly capable of pulling it off. If he wasn't dead and the seer, it could have been Pitchwife--but, obviously, that's a case of the seer under scrutiny.

Hmm... Hakon's the only other spotlight yesterday that I'm really remembering... and he was, I thought and have been proven correct, in the spotlight very clearly despite himself...

Okay... Maybe the wolves/bear weren't in the spotlight yesterday... or I can't remember everyone who was... but it's not, conceptually, impossible.

Cross-posted with this last time...

The fact that the early votes are piling up against Rikae and Mira specifically may be what you're wary of--in which case, that's fair, and I'll not comment on that--but it seems fair to mention that yesterDay set a strong precedent of "I'm not sure I'll be around, so I'll leave a vote anyway" or "I'm ticked at this minor issue, so I'm going to leave a protest vote to express that, but I'll be back later and retract" etc.

Which is not to say, necessarily, that these votes follow that pattern, but it does seem like a fair observational note that that seems to be the way the game is going in terms of exercising the Once-Retractable vote.

Ahem. Here is the current vote count, courtesy of Nienna:

Where's the pile-up?

Well, I'm quoting Mac...

But, defensibly, one could argue that out of a total of 4 votes cast, 1 is a full 25% of the vote.

Also, 4 votes this early in the day is not insignificant--though also not unprecedented.

Okay, I have family wanting the computer and I need to say Lauds before noon. If God should give me a private revelation therein about the baddies, I'll undoubtedly be back soon, but barring that, I'm not sure when I'll be back. Soonish rather than laterish, I imagine, but let's emphasize the "ish" either way.

I'm just saying, Mac's over-reacting... and I'm wondering why. Maybe he was already counting my prospective vote on Mira. Which I believe I'll make now:

++Mirandir

Not at all sure about this, though; I may well change it later.

There, Mac. Now they each have two votes.