Exactly. Take it or leave it, 'cause chances are slim that I will change it.

I suppose my 'craziness' probably grew a bit during the WW games I was able to play in. It's so wierd to have to turn down going to a movie because, "I still haven't voted yet", or not go out to eat because, "I have to see if I've been killed or not." But being on the forum is worth any grief you might get over it, & I personally don't get much.

Estelyn brought up a great point about how educational the forums are & Gurthang & others have made great points about how it's helped their writing/social skills. It has helped my writing (to a degree :p), but it's helped me to think about the other person's point of view also. You may not agree with what they're saying, but that doesn't mean you can't try to understand it.

I realize how 'crazy' I might seem to others but, on the whole, I think my 'crazy' is probably better than their 'normal'. :D

We (and by we I mean Barrow-Wight) have definately made a grand little culture for ourselves on this forum, what with our common love for the written word and fantastic realm building. It seems that we've (again I mean Barrow-Wight) a place where we are (this time I don't mean Barrow-Wight, but do not exclude him, as that is not wise.) free to explore the imagination of one man... or at least how we preceive it.

Like all cultures when viewed from the outside we downers (again not excluding BW.) are absolute and complete lunatics who greet people into a group by mocking them with well choosen, and somehow eloquient words... if thats possible. We delight in the trivial and the theoretical where others would buy the cliff-notes... this, as I see it (and by I, I mean me; not Barrow-Wight. *wink*), does not make us freaks, but-- now this might scare some of the younger or more sensitive wights-- normal... Which just might make everything in this world of ours (And by ours I do NOT mean Barrow-Wight, and exclude him COMPLETELY. Hmpft.) just a bit more scary.

Either that or I'm doing something wrong in Anthropology class, which is more likely, weirdos ; )

We are not lunatics!! How could you say such a thing!?!? :eek: As we have clearly staed before, they are the crazy ones for not joining this awsome site! I do however agree with the fact that if all of us were pushed into our little group (I mean those that post on here frequently[ie. myslef, you Valesse, Wilwa, Gil, phantom, Enca, B-W, Eomer, Fordim, Perky, TGWBS, Saucy, morm, Kitanna, and a whole bunch of others]) and they started insulting us and making fun of us, we could probably come back with some pretty witty comebacks, that they wouldn't even understand!! GO US!!!! :D

Alas, quoting Tolkien at idiots is only likely to make people think we're even weirder than they thought before. And there's no point using an insult nobody can understand, eh? ;)

Now that I'm at 6th Form, I have enough free time to visit the Downs during (restricted) daylight hours. People observing this generally claim I'm weird, can you imagine? :p I reply that they should develop a scary obsession with something quaint and odd - it does one a lot of good.

Screw conformity.

I can just see it...

Enca: For I also am a steward! Did you not know?
Tolkien Fans: Oooooh, snap!
Non-Tolkien Fan: I never said anything about stewards, loser. [Or, more likely, "Uhhh... what's a steward?"]

:D

That's awsome Enca, I can so picture that!! Not only do they have no idea what the heck you're talking about and what we're laughing at, but we get the satisfaction of saying that they don't have anything better to say than loser which is such an over rated word that it's use will eventually stop!!!

A word more... shall we say uncouth would probably be used instead of "loser," but I didn't want to get smited for having a potty-mouth. :rolleyes:

I couldn't agree with you more! You say so much in those few words.

When I see people doing the 'in' thing, I can only laugh. I'm usually not doing the 'in thing', and not just to be not doing the 'in thing'. All those people who do the 'in thing' have so much to worry about and often don't even really know what the 'in thing' is. I do my own thing, say screw whatever the 'in thing' is, and have way more fun being me and laughing at them. :D


On a side note, I was eating a formal dinner the other night, and my date commented on how it was fun to be 'proper'(not sure if that's the exact word, but it's about the same). That's one reason that I like this site. I can try to use more complicated sentence structure, better descriptive words, and come up with off the wall analogies, and you all don't (usually ;) ) make fun of me. It's really a lot of fun to be 'proper'. :D

Ahhhh, the "in thing". I know it well. Not that me and him personally met at all during my life time. I don't even know why people try to be, what's that word I'm looking for? Oh riggghhht!!! "Cool". What's the point of being "cool" if you can't be yourself? I like the way I am and I'm not going to change it any time soon. So, as I nomally say, if you don't like me the way I am, live with it.

Conformity...
 

This is all really interesting to me because I just started studying Psychology this week and the first topic we did was... conformity.

We discussed how, in a sense, everybody conforms. We may not conform to the norms' point of view, but we conform on the Downs. For example, to try to fit in more, a newer member could decide to read HoME so they can quote it. So... I'm not sure why I brought this up actually. I just think the whole conformity issue is interesting, and the way we think we're independant when we're actually conforming to the rest of the Downs.

Bottom line, none of us are as crazy as we think or hope to be.

Conforming to Non-Conformity!
 

The "in" crowd scares me. They always get caught when they're up to mischief, rarely think for themselves, and never are remembered in history books. Or even fictional ones.

Frodo of the Nine-Fingers: Mad Baggins's heir. He dreamt of adventures... most unhobbitly. He learned high Elvish. Most uncommon. He was friends with a wizard... most terrifying. He went on a quest to save the world. Most impressive. Ended his life in Middle Earth by sailing into the Uttermost West with the most divine beings around to live with them in the most perfect place around until he healed enough to die happily and go off to greener shires.

Saruman of Many Colours: Headed the White Council. Tried to be someone he was not (equal to Sauron, creator, that sort of thing), and ended up with the "most popular" one (Sauron) doing all of his thinking for him. Fell so far that all he could manage was spiteful mischief in the Shire where he got caught, got pitied, and in the end, died anyhow, hated by everyone.

Now isn't that just proof enough that you should do your own thing? I don't necessarily want to be a hero (too much publicity... I'd never get a moment's rest, what with distant relations hanging on the bell all day, and all that), but I certainly don't feel like being the pathetic little twerp in the history books that couldn't even find one decent adventure to be remembered for. :D

And if being a "Lord of the Rings nerd", or a "you're on that website AGAIN" nerd, or a "Tolkienite", or on occasion, a "Tolkienist" makes me happy, then according to my short and mediocre proof up there, it means that I'm more likely to go to Valinor than the in-crowd. How's that for encouragement? ;)

Very encouraging Fea, very encouraging indeed. I'd rather be in a history book for being me than falling in with the "in" crowd. Besides, as you said, all that happens when you're with the "in" crowd is that you get into trouble. And if excessviely liking something makes me a nerd, than I'll die with that tittle, nerd. I'd rather be a Tolkienite than someone who smokes anyday.

A very interesting perspective, subjunctive guy. Certainly posters here don't stay long if all they produce is chat posts--Estelyn's skwerls will get them sooner or later, as will that legendary long green sword of BW and the Admins.

Nor does this site encourage picture or image additions to posts; it relies mainly on text and text of a certain style; there's a slightly tongue-in-cheek atttitude here that requires a particular light hand and those who can't get a handle on it tend not to stay very long--or tend to stay only on certain threads. And everyone here understands the hierarchy of threads, whether seriously or winkingly. Witness all the newbie and not so newbie comments about being intimidated and not wanting to post on Books or Chapter by Chapter. In fact, there's very much a sort of a testosterone-driven competitive wiff along with that sweet smell of the dead. ;)

Every community creates its own identity. In short, by coming here, we respond to all those nay-sayers "out there" and happily it seems create a style which many of them possibly cannot aspire to. (And note please what my placing of 'possibly' means. ;))

It's a society/culture/community which provides its own rewards. :smokin:

Well, Fea, thinking about it, and picking a few non-conformists:

Nienna, Ulmo, Feanor, Galadriel, Maglor, Daeron, Maeglin, Turin, Elendil, Arvedui, Frodo...

they don't always seem to get happiness. Still, at least they get lovely FAME!

But they do good. And they create beautiful things. They are artists, m'boy.

Feanor created the Silmarilli. What truer art can you find than that which can never be forgotten? He captured light... that is simply amazing. Flashlights just don't hold up to many-faceted jewels. (note to self: think more about he Arkenstone and it's connexions).

Galadriel preserved art... she was more of the museum care-taker than the artist herself, and she kept at least part of the world a safe and beautiful place. She may not have been truly happy, but she was good, and she was kind. She understood things, and though that tends to be a sure way to breed cynicism, pessimism, and a whole lot of depression, Galadriel never lost hope.

Daeron created song. Must I say more?

Turin... well... fate dealt him one heck of a hand, I must say. But he made the world a safer place, yes?

It is not the fame that I think about, but the cause of it. As I have said before... I do not want to be remembered... I want my deeds to be.

Oh, and here's another thing. Perhaps all of your examples are conforming to Eru's will. Hm? What say you to that. Maybe the reason they aren't happy is because they know that they have no free will. They're too busy serving a higher purpose. How d'ya like them apples? :p

Oh, I agree, I agree. Most of those names happen to be among my favourites. Just saying that getting to Valinor through eccentricity isn't always a solid bet. But getting into song and story pretty much is.

A little harsh, don't you think? Just because you're conformist, doesn't mean you're automatically a delinquent. Delinquents don't account for the majority of the population, at least that I've seen.

Again, you seem to have a different idea of general conformity than I do. The majority of people I know, while conforming to fashion and music and the such-like, manage to stay out of trouble. Do I simply live in some sort of Utopia? :confused:

It's perfectly possible to be both. I don't approve of smoking, but it doesn't automatically make somebody a conformist, or an idiot, or a delinquent.

Non-conforming doesn't automatically make them good, though. I don't think our lack of normalcy (;)) makes us any better than people who all, for example, avidly follow Big Brother. It just makes us different.

Yes, it does make us different, uniquely differnet at that. But tell me, who here doesn't like being differnet? If we weren't all different and everybody acted and look the same, this world would be a boring place! I perfer being differnet then being the same as everybody else. I love expressing my individuality and telling people how much I like LotR. I like dressing differently because that also expresses what kind of person you are inside. So for me, when I'm on this site, I act pretty much the same way I do when I'm around my friends. CRAZY!!! The only thing that's different is that I'm writing to you guys and I'm not using abreviated words like I would when I'm on MSN.

That's quite possible TGWBS. But what I meant is that if to be "cool" you have to smoke, then I'd rather not do that. I'd do the complete opposite and express myself. And yes, you're right. Smoking doesn't automatically make you a conformist, idiot or delinquent.

There might be those who think that the study of Tolkien's works could encourage smoking... ;)

Thanks, tgwbs, for the reminder that different does not necessarily mean better or worse, just different!

The idea of communities and how they form fascinates me, but even more interesting are the 'rules' which are then created. We do have unwritten rules here, such as accepted ways of writing posts (and there are several), how to approach the issue of someone is basing an argument on incorrect information etc. We also get to know one another, and learn when it is acceptable to have a joke about another member and when they will not tolerate it. For myself, it was a gradual learning process; I was cagey at first and then gradually eased myself into the 'Downs culture. Others pick up the culture much more quickly.

Everyone has their obsession, even the so-called 'normal' people have 'em, whether it be following footie or watching soaps. In fact, I'd worry if someone didn't have a passion for something other than themselves!

Now, about actually trying to be 'different' - it doesn't work in my opinion. You could decide you will follow a particular 'alternative' way of life or fashion but inevitably someone else will be following it too. And you could to all outward appearances be entirely 'ordinary' but have extraordinary interests. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is just to be yourself, as we only get one shot at life (unless you believe in reincarnation of course) so we may as well be happy. :)

If I was to quit (which will be an inevitable thing at some stage :( ) I'd have to quit reading about Hobbits for a while or I'd go spare reading about all that lovely pipeweed. :(

Exactly. I said earlier that I didn't like it when people went with the crowd. I guess it's not so much that they go with the crowd, it's that they go with it just to be in the crowd, aka doing the 'in thing'. If people happen to do the 'in thing' because that's seriously what they enjoy, then more power to them. It's the people who are being fake and do what everyone else does just to fit in. It just doesn't work; people see through you and know you're fake.

So I guess conformity is not wholly a bad thing. Conforming to the Downs is a very fun thing, because I truly enjoy posting here. So it's really about motive rather than action.

I'm not really a psychologist; I just play one on TV...
 

Just a thought: Sometimes the whole 'different' thing is just a way to protect oneself. When you act strangely, weird or 'counter,' you might be using that to keep people from approaching you. People can be scary (I'm told that all of the time, right before they reach for the pepper spray...), and so by being odd, you can keep the world at a distance.

Not that that's all bad, yet you don't want to be so different as to always be alone. Sure, you can do it, but life's more fun with someone (is somemany a word?) with whom to share it. One of the cool things about this time is that you can find others easily who are different like you. Imagine wanting to 'talk Tolkien' without access to the internet! That could be one of the reasons that there're voices in my head...

Anyway, be yourself, be with others with whom you can be yourself, and don't be afraid to show people your differences as they might be Tolkien nuts too, but they just might not know it yet.