The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - Did the Necromancer practice necromancy?

I think, Saucepan Man, that Findegil's supplied quote (very nice, by the way!) was much more than discussing possession. I think the possibility of an alien spirit possessing a body was just a by-product of the 'necromancy' at issue.

Assuming fëa to indicate the spirit (the eternal part of a created being contrasted with the body, or 'house'), then it is this summoning process that is being discussed in the passage.

Quote:

...refused the summons, and then had little power to resist the countersummons of Morgoth...

Morgoth is indicated as being able to summon the fëa that refuse the legitimate summons of true authority.

Quote:

...wander houseless in the world, unwilling to leave it and unable to inhabit it...

This would be a description of those fëa (sorry I do not know the plural form) or spirits, having died and separated from their bodies, that do not answer the lawful summons to their 'eternal destination,' if you will, and may be subject to some 'counter-summons' by an evil being. Such as those mentioned:

Quote:

Such practices are of Morgoth; and the necromancers are of the host of Sauron his servant.

Then,

Quote:

It is therefore a foolish and perilous thing, besides being a wrong deed forbidden justly by the appointed Rulers of Arda, if the Living seek to commune with the Unbodied...

I believe this is quite the definition of necromancy that is the discussion of this thread. And what Tolkien had in mind when he chose the name used in The Hobbit.

Then the quoted discussion's final couple of paragraphs discuss what may be the desire or will of these dispossessed spirits, and is really more of a sideline.

A general point I would like to contribute to this thread is that Tolkien, being well familiar with the Bible, I think intended this Necromancy (described thoroughly in Findegil's quote) to be very similar to the Biblical injunction against consorting with those having a familiar spirit, purporting to be in communication with the dead.

Here, then, is a great story from the Bible, pertaining to the topic.

Quote:

1 Samuel 28: 3-20a "Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land.

And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and pitched in Shunem: and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they pitched in Gilboa. And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled.

And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.

And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?

And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.

Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy? And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David: Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day. Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.

Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him...."