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As for the 'Go back to the land of Mordor' its a bit silly, I didnt like it when I read it for the first time in the book. Its probably the only line in the Whole of the books that doesnt sit well for me. Soft and stern, yep he is like that in the film too. The only real difference between MF and BF are one or two ineffectual swipes at Ringwraiths, the lack of which does not mean that MF is suddenly a wimp. We didnt get the Barrow scenes so we dont know how that would have panned out. |
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- Incidentally, that scene is a pretty efficient bit of adaptation, considering how dialogue- and exposition-heavy the original is at that point. I mean, I don't know what's happened to the writers- these days they would have practically given it its own movie.:rolleyes: |
However–
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And yet, here is the actual list of complaints:
Now, obviously you don’t agree with any of this, and that’s fine. However, if you are indeed “trying to understand” other people’s reactions, I think you need to take more note of what they actually are. |
There were any number of character assassinations in the movies, why should Frodo be any different? However, if you look at bitter "Arwen is dying" Elrond, maniacal and ignoble Denethor, and particularly "Show my quality" Faramir, I think they got an even rawer deal from the spurious script. The characters are Bizzaro World versions of Middle-earth characters.
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''general lack of initiative'' wrong again. After escaping Boromir Frodo decides to take the boat and go to Mordor alone without Sam, he also saves Sam from drowning. This shows great courage and initiative. you really need better examples of frodos weakness because I dont get it. ''powerlessness against the Ring'' thats a given, in the book or the films, its part of being a Ring bearer. ''whining'' this is more prejudice based on dislike of Woods performance rather than reality. Frodo doesnt whine, he suffers. ''swooning'' more prejudice, any so called 'feminine' behaviour like swooning is immediately ridiculed, like swooning from lack of food or exhaustion is somehow ridiculous. this list of complaints are a bit flimsy. |
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To me, 'book' Frodo does come across as patiently enduring mental and physical anguish. Film version always seemed to me to have a harassed and fretful air about him, as if to let the viewer know he was just carrying the Ring because he'd been bullied into it. And I just don't see book-Frodo's sense of humor displayed. Wood can't seem to forget about the Ring's terrible burden for an instant, even if Frodo in the book does on occasion. |
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He did jump on the ferry boat on the way to Bree - forgot that one. Quote:
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Note that I did not mention a specific actor. Don't care if it's Wood, McKellen or Otto - whining's whining. Quote:
It just looks seriously silly, as it's slightly slowed down as if it's something interesting and not sad. Quote:
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Can we just remember that this is the sort of topic on which nobody is ultimately "right" or "wrong"? Some people like Movie Frodo; some people don't, and it's unlikely that either side is going to convince the other.
With that in mind- FerniesApple, my intention in making that list was not to "prove" that you're somehow wrong to prefer the film version of the character- because how can you be? I merely wanted to suggest that, since you *were* choosing to argue against the opposing view, it might be well to acknowledge that there had in fact been more than one point of criticism. One thing I see confirmed here is that we are indeed defining terms differently. For me, the "go home" scene *is* an example of "weakness" in the sense of poor judgement and petulant self-indulgence. Now, of course you don't agree with this assessment, which, again, I'm perfectly okay with. The point is that we are *not* all making a simple equation of aggression with strength or gentleness with weakness, which is what you seem to assume. On that note, will you *kindly* refrain from these accusations of "prejudice"? Apart from the fact that it's not even close to being a valid argument, I feel it's really raising the temperature of this discussion. Which, again, is about whether people like or don't like a film character- not exactly a matter of world-shaking importance. |
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The topic has been discussed here for over a decade, and folks are quite set in their views. |
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Anyway, make and defend your arguments, please. I find that having a polite - though sometimes heated, especially if it involves Gandalf - discussion with someone with whom I disagree (as we might be doing here) is where I learn the most. [Note that if you think that I'm not a movie fan now, you should have read my posts when it first came out! :D] |
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I dont do ''refrain''. Either its on or its off. I dont do wishywashy tip toeing. But I will bow out of the discussion. I got this kind of treatment ovr at TORn, didnt like it when they told me what I could and couldnt say, and I dont like it now. I dont like being policed. The irony is over there it was the Jackson fanboys telling me to refrain. |
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Is that about right? Tailor your rhetoric to annoy a specific audience? Meh. Do what you like. But don't expect civility if, as you say, you don't care for "wishy-washy tiptoeing". Toes can get stepped on, particularly in a venue where words and tone are often misjudged. |
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No its NOT right, but thanks for the aggressive attitude. I happen to love Jacksons LOTR but hate Jacksons Hobbit, so over at TORn I am persona non grata for daring to critisize The Hobbit, and persona non grata here for daring to defend LOTR. see its very simple, no need to get the hive mind on. |
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It looks to me as if posters were responding to you by simply saying that ultimately a like/dislike of a particular actor's portrayal was a matter of opinion, which it certainly is. |
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In any case, I do apologize for your feelings of inferiority and unease, and I welcome you to the Downs, where discussions are aggressively cordial. ;) |
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But...as the equation clearly shows, Frodo's Hurinness is dependent on the Gandalf/Istari wand ratio, and because Gandalf's character in the film is weaker (he is proned by the Witch-King), Frodo's character is, as a result, lessened. Q.E.D. |
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(I was, by the way, trying to give you an "out" by stressing that it's all subjective anyway, since it was looking to me as though you were rather floundering.) Finally, a few posters disagreeing on a specific topic with you are not the "hive-mind" treating you as "persona non grata" for "daring to defend" something. They're just disagreeing with you. People have different points of view; that's life. |
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But if you can put your prowess to the question of why the 'unfunny' factor of the films rises in direct proportion to the amount of effort PJ puts into 'lighthearted' moments, you'll be more esteemed than if you figured out this. |
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oooh! supercilious and passive aggressive, and an insult thrown in for good measure! I bet you post on TORn too, fit right in with the hivemind mentality warding off newcomers to your tiny world if they dont tow the party line. It makes for an interesting sociological experiment at the very least. Ill just wait around a bit until someone mentions the word 'troll' that usually activates the drones to buzz around. All because I voiced my opinion. weird. :rolleyes: and a bit sad. |
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Some subtlety would help too, but I won't ask for too much. |
Oh, and can we get back on topic?
Surely there are other forums and modalities available if we want to compliment each other...:rolleyes: Thought that this thread was about some hobbit named Frodo. |
Fernie, whether or not you are in fact an adult, I have every right to ask you to be more civil.
And again- there is no "hive-mind". It's your behaviour that's getting you criticised now, not the fact that you happen to have a different opinion of a fictional character. Frankly, I suspect you know this and your claims of being persecuted by the "hive mind" are just a way of saving face, since your actual argument doesn't seem to be making much headway. But of course only you can know the truth of that. |
This topic has been discussed enough for this go around.
Perhaps someone could start a different one and all of you could be less.... ummm ...whatever it is that's been going on in this thread. |
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