Hush up, love, you know you're just a pup. A sheep in wolf's clothing, if you insist on keeping up the illusion.

Hey, Squatter, my first Books post was also my first thread...

Let's see... Shortly following my [over-formal/pretentious/embarassing] post:

the phantom linked me to a site showing that my color logic was pretty much completely bad.

burrahobbit gave me a seven word response telling me that my logic, again, was faulty.

'Vana posted a dictionary quote and I pretty much assumed I was surrounded by people who can directly quote Webster without effort at any given time.

Keeper of Dol Goldur asked if most people of the Third Age would even have any clue about the fundamental differences of gemstones that look alike.

So I ended the thread firmly of the opinion that, for all that I was brilliant, wise, awesome, incredible, I was totally out of my league and that I should just sit in a corner for the rest of my life.

Since we're going over embarrassing threads and moments (oh, and to think there's an entire thread dedicated to that! Goes to show how smart we people actually are... ;) ), perhaps a brief 'guide' to a good "The Books" topic, or any type of good topic, would be quite nifty.

Here's one question to start off that I've wondered about: is it better for the topic to be more general, or more specific?

(I would say a good "The Books" post, but I think that's far too difficult, since that could be so many things.)

What I sometimes do is sort of plot out an issue, thinking about what I want to ultimately say, but in my initial post starting the thread I will merely give a general overview, state a position and solicit comments before pouring out my whole theory or interpretation. Sometimes less is more. If you write a thesis for your first post members may be less likely to respond thinking the issue is fully addressed. Alternatively, members might be intimidated by a lengthy initial post, particularly if you are planning on using quotes or referring to less common texts.

I agree that it's the verbosity that I find intimidating more than the BDers posting. It's funny, but back when I still visited Books frequently, the words "Letters" or "Canonicity" or "HoME" (among others) were my signs to click on the Back button right away. Nah, Lhuna, don't even try.

When I do find an interesting topic, I tend to stumble on it too late, in which either all my ideas have been said, or I've taken too much time reading the posts that by the time I see the Reply button, I've forgotten what I was to say, and then become too lazy to gather my thoughts again.

So much to read, so little time. Sigh. Short, sweet, yet altogether very though-provoking threads are such a relief when they appear.

I'll agree with that...I haven't started a thread in a long time, but I won't forget one of my earliest threads I started...about oaths, and I pretty much explained everything in detail, and I think it was Gurthang who said 'What's the point here, seems like you've explained everything.' (paraphrasing that). And I realized that there truly was nothing to argue or debate about. So, I approach starting threads differently now...kind of like laying down the foundation of what the argument will be about, and then later on arguing my side. :)

Well, I think we have reached somewhat of a consensus here, or otherwise everything that we wanted to say has been said. Since it was my proposition I might as well wrap it up a little.

From all the talk I gather that:
*Perhaps linking without discussing can be seen as discouraging, and posters should be aware that in spite of their best intentions this may just happen
*Even if it feels a little scary, the "old time posters" (meaning those that make long, very very elaborate posts) don't mind different views, even if not expressed as fluently.
*Thus, we should all take a big breath, choose one topic and give it a try!!

I think there was a small increase on movement on The Books... might just be a coincidence, but let's all go over there and share our thoughts! =)

This post, obviously, does not mean that the lack of activity on The Books sub-forum can no-longer be discussed, but I believe Jenny had something else to comment on... the floor is yours =)

Um. This is embarrassing.

But I forgot.

My first thread in "Books" was, for lack of better words, totally retarded.

No pressure.

Oh wait, wasn't I the one talking about how I've been staying away from "Books" lately? Do as I say, not as I do, folks. :D

[00:37] Michael A. Joosten: Late Night Analysis with Dr. Michael Freudmendacil...
[00:37] Laura: are you kidding? i'm still a foolish newbie
[00:37] Laura: i'm petrified of sharku
[00:37] Laura: it takes all of my nerve to PM b-w
[00:37] Michael A. Joosten: You've preserved the most endearing and delightful parts of your newbieness- and possibly a few other quirks.
[00:37] Laura: it took lmp actually telling me to get over myself before i could summon the courage to talk to esty
[00:38] Laura: and getting the guts to pm pio... i can barely do it
[00:38] Michael A. Joosten: I'm most amused at your PMing the bigwigs fear... not something I've ever suffered... though I've never really had cause to PM any of them.
[00:39] Laura: it's like picking up the phone and calling people
[00:39] Laura: i loathe it
[00:39] Laura: quite terrified in most cases
[00:39] Laura: i have no problems chatting with people
[00:39] Laura: anyone, and place, any time
[00:39] Laura: but actually approaching people
[00:39] Laura: makes me dead nervous
[00:40] Laura: bravest moment of my life was raising my hand at an academic lecture run by a globally renowned expert and attended by people my grandparents' age
[00:42] Laura: i certainly still see myself as the pretentious 15-year-old that registered
[00:42] Laura: and used a lot of big words for the sake of using them
[00:42] Laura: ps, davem is scary!
[00:43] Laura: well... not scary
[00:43] Laura: actually quite hilarious
[00:43] Michael A. Joosten: Davem- scary? He's too smart for his own good, yes... but scary, no...
[00:43] Laura: but still... he's one of the... big ones
[00:43] Laura: haha
[00:43] Laura: i feel like such a kid
-----

Behold the beauty of self-saving MSN conversations. This one occured within the past few months, but I don't remember exactly when it was.

I've pretty much decided that the reason I avoid Books a lot is probably a bit of residual conditioning from a childhood spent hearing the words "respect your elders' all the time. How are we supposed to pseudo-saunter up to scary smart 'elders' and interrupt their conversations when many of us are young folk who've had lives thus far of formal use of titles and forced beliefs that older equals smarter, don't ask questions?

I agree with lmp; just get over your anxieties. The bigwigs around here are very approachable.

Well, maybe not the Wight. He still scares the beejesus out of me.

EDIT I never get to chat with anyone. Formy and I did have a nice ramble last spring about Lego but that's about it.

Big Wig?!

http://www.acewigs.com/shop/image_up...RU_50511_S.jpg

*hack . . . cough . . .

I need a public-relations consultant!

I'm such an accomodating noodle . . . PM me w/o fear . . .

:)

~*~ Pio

Me, intimidating??!!

Oh dear, I know that being a moderator means I have do unpleasant things occasionally, like getting threads back on topic, deleting spam posts, and PMing 'suggestions' to posters who need to learn the basics of forum discussion. But I hope members realize that I am patient, have a sense of humor, and am definitely not perfect myself. If I remember correctly, my first post was on a thread called "Does anyone else have a sister as stupid as this?" :rolleyes: where I related my experience of seeing the FotR movie with my extended family - not a particularly learned topic.

Since I, like the other administrators and moderators, am here in my spare time, just like all other members, my main purpose for coming is to enjoy myself. I'm delighted to see so many of you thinking on this thread about ways to improve discussions and encourage many to participate. I was away, travelling, when it began, so it's taken me a few days upon returning to catch up. As I see it, the Novices and Newcomers forum gives those who are intimidated by the Books forum lots of leeway for posting less seriously, with just their opinions or feelings to express. There was very little going on there for quite awhile in recent months, so I'm happy to see more posting.

I agree with what has been said about new discussion of old topics. Several years ago, when I began moderating, the forum had a policy of discouraging new threads and asking people to use the existing ones. That was in part because of the forum software! Now that we have this nice nifty base, we have much more leeway, and our policy has changed. If there has been no recent discussion of a topic, you are welcome to open a new thread. If you missed seeing a thread that is still active, we will simply merge the two (yes, that's something we can do easily now, though it used to be very difficult with the old software). If you are unsure of yourself, just PM me or whichever moderator is in charge of that particular forum section, and we will be happy to answer your questions.

Suggestions are always welcome, and we do consider them and have adopted those we feel will be helpful in the past. We would like to keep things as simple as possible, though, so for now, let's concentrate on reviving 'newbie' discussions before we think of creating an additional forum section.

Don't worry, Esty, I, for one, have always concerned you the least intimidating of all the mods and admins.... :)

Are you kidding?!?!?!?!? Esty -- sorry, Dame Telcontar -- is a terror!

And don't even get me started on Pio. Brrrrr.......

Esty, pio, Child... they are moderators from the Ancient World, or Balmods, as we name them in Sindarin.

@ Fordim and Underhill: :p

& I for one do have wings . . .

;)

~*~ Pio

*just returned from Hithlum


. . . go ahead thow the chat skwerl at me! :p

Ai! Ai!

(But are they, I am compelled to ask, fully functional wings, or are you merely a Balmockmod?)

C'mon folks... I am sort of fond of this thread, I'd hate to see it closed! Let's leave the discussion of mod wings for Mirth if you feel like it.

I know, this is highly ironic.... I'm telling this to well.... the Barrow Downs mods :D

Here goes...
 

I find everone's comments here interesting, because they hit very close to home. I’ve always had that problem on forums, though perhaps I don’t quite give this impression here, I’m a member on a number of different forums, and I almost never post anything anywhere. The reason being that I feel inadequate, or I could not possibly make any worth while contribution to any topic, and I almost always think that, like in this post right now is not really to the point of this thread. It’s probably why I haven’t been here in a year. Sorry I must be starting to sound cofuseing, I’m hardly an academic and all the very intelligent people that seem to inhabit these Tolkien forums just make one feel rather inferior. IMHO

-Beleg

>>--->

Agreed Beleg. When I first joined this site I did sit in the corner and watch because I was terrified of looking stupid or being yelled at by a mod. It took me a good year to realise that, though there are some people on here that come only for the literary discussion, most 'Downers take part in all areas of the site. And if you ever want to get over your fear or a particular person then play werewolf with them, because I guarantee that after you spend three days building a case against them and getting them lynched they'll be more scared of you than you are of them. :D Though, my first game with Sauce I didn't dare say a word against him to start with, damn irrational fears ...

I don't think I'd say a word against him ether. http://webpages.charter.net/connectingzone/shock/15.gif :p





On the positive side I’m still not sure why it is because I’ve attempted to take part discussions else where, this is the only forum where I’ve made posts longer the two lines! I don’t know why this is, it seems to be a very mentally simulating place to be. Maybe it's all the great members, maybe it's somthing just a little bit special..... but what ever it is I think it’s great. So in closing I would just like to say; long live the barrow downs! May it’s bandwidth never die!! :D '



-Beleg


>>--->

How about some more of those...
 

lmp started a lovely thread recently in Books for comparison/contrast with Phantastes.

Comparison/contrast is a well- established and often fun method of literary analysis. But there are others. Pick a literary method, pick a Tolkien story, and try it. The worst that can happen is you get redirected to an old thread that you can read and add to.

Fordie, I so wanted to rep you for that link to canonicity. You have a Terribly Evil streak. Go cackle at Movie-Gandalf and have it cast out, will you? And where are your Capitalized Nouns in your post? I don't see any. Canonicity and any serious references thereto must have Capitalized Nouns. Capitalize, I say, or I shall heave a Gauntlet at thee, thwack.