I must say, being fashionably late is rather fun. :p

Before I made it here, I had been wandering about and just thinking things over. It seemed to me that the secret voting can complicate things for the village. Because there's no way to confirm the outcome of the vote until the following day even if, as has been suggested, we post our votes here on the village notice board. The vampires are, of course, lying since they can't vote. And there might be a couple of legitmate strategic reasons for a villager to post an undecided "vote" early. For example, it seems to me that since the vampires can't vote, they would have to be more vocal in trying to deflect village opinion, so that an early decoy vote might be thrown out to test the waters...much as retractable votes have been used strategically.

In any case, I'll be posting my votes here. It's still the only way the village has to coordinate strategy (at least down the road when there's more to go on), and I agree that some sort of voting record would be useful for analysis later, even if the votes that counted can't necessarily be confirmed.

And if anyone sees a frog hopping about, please let me know. I seem to have lost my poor Ribbits on my way here.

Nogrod had clearly dozed off but was awakened by the sound of Menel sharpening his newly found sword. Rikae's shouting from the window did the rest. Nogrod looked around him and tried to remember the thoughts that had occured to him while he had been taking his nap. Then he remembered.

Listen now. There is something strange in this triangle of Rikae, Gil and Spm. Here's a a small summary of it.

Now first Rikae threw a suspicion over Spm for starting with a self-defence. I think the point justified as esspiem's beginning toDay felt pretty awkward to my ears too. In fact Rikae didn't mention Spm reminding us of his sharp wits which could be of help to us... which I also found sounding a little too preventive even if I agree that his wits would serve us well if he's an innocent.

After that Gil came forwards and questioned Rikae for accusing two people right off the bat (other one being the in-character banter to Mac) and said his hunches were moving towardss seeing Rikae very suspicious.

Then Spm came back and defended himself pretty staunchly in regards to the unseverity of the suspicions that Rikae had brought forwards. He also countered Rikae's suspicion by not stating it openly, but by pointing that he himself suspects those who go with in-character banter based accusations.

Rikae defended herself pretty strongly (in feeling, not in length) by the "suspect me then but I like this new way of a game" -thing. A bit later she came back and said that Gil and esspiem looked the most suspicious to her. Adding though that she was too tired to think clearly.

And she reappeared again, shouting from the window denying to have accused anyone based on in-character bantering. Says she thinks it's Spm and Gil who are doing it and that's the reason she distrusts them.

---
So what is this? Quick defences for almost nonexistent suspicions, much ado about nothing or something more?


Rikae: Her defence feels genuine, but a little too tense regarding how little there has been against her... she also came quite close to lying - basically she did it. That's always pretty suspicious. She says: And these are her words too, from earlier on the Day:It might all be counted as in character stuff as well, but it's a doubt casted anyway.

Her suspicion on Gil seems even stranger. Gil suspects her to be sure but retaliation isn't the way a smart villager would react - and Rikae surely is smart. She says: I must say I haven't seen Gil doing that. So why a lie again?

Spm: He speaks wisely as always. What else would you think he would do whatever role he had? But he's also a bit too quick to defend himself - quick enough to do it even before anyone had said anything on him...

Gil: Look at the man! He's a newborn and I like the way he plays right now. He might be a Vampire testing the waters to be sure. Rikae could be a nice lynch for the Vampires if she were innocent.

---
To end up. I'm reluctant to vote for Gil without a good cause as he seems to be getting the hang of the active play. I'm also reluctant to vote for Spm as he after all is an asset to us if he's innocent and we'll have time to see what he is later on (if the vampires don't kill him before that) as he stated quite openly not being able to take part toDay much more but the last hour. I wouldn't like to lose Rikae either, but would be very interested in hearing some explanations on why she downright lied to us...

EDIT: X'd with a few...

After a long time of coming and going with new wood Legate finally left for the last time, appearing a few minutes later dragging a large wooden table across the stony cave floor. The sound of dragging echoed the whole cave. At one moment, the table jerked and with all its weight one blockfoot fell on Legate's toe. The man screamed and with all effort threw the table away from himself so it fell on one side.

Legate let it be and came near the fireplace where he sat down, took off one of his wooden sandals and started examining his foot.

"There's quite enough of wood, but it's better to be prepared. Who knows if the Oracle does not suddenly choose to leave us here without wood supply. I'd be also careful about food and if possible, leave something until the next meal. Assuming it does not become wormy."

Legate took his sandals back on and looked around. "I heard bits of what you spoke about here, I was also thinking a little bit. But it's still plenty time till Oracle's deadline and many of us haven't showed yet. Oh, first, Boro, Espiem is a good guy, at least in picking the locks, but don't think I wasn't checking him over my shoulder. He's in the storeroom now. But what I heard in your discussions here... now...

Six? I don't see why you think it isn't a good idea. Unless you want to bluff, which as I said I think an innocent villager has no need to, you shouldn't worry about it. After all, as best "voting list" as we can get is, I think, only for the good of the village. I don't see any disadvantage there.

Well I think we'd agree that without accusations we'd get nowhere. However, the ones who care the most on getting someone under any suspicion are the Vampires. So I find Shastani's comment rather in place, or at least I see it "unharmful". It's good in my opinion not to give too much into feelings or first sights and so on on the first day, because we don't know anything yet, basically. Of course accusing is needed, but not just headless.

For now, if I was to say that I am watching any of you folks more than the others, it would be probably ** Six for the comment above. It's quite a lot of us around here, I have to say, and many of us aren't saying much* so it's hard to conclude something... Otherwise I'll keep my eye on the places where it already "boiled" like Gil, Rikae, Espiem...

But now I am sorry, but I am quite dead from all the wood-carrying. I need to take a rest." With these words, Legate set out a bedroll he brought from one of the houses and laid near the bonfire. "Remember," he said yet, "keep feeding the fire. I wouldn't sleep longer than eight hours... but probably right after I wake up, I'm going to look around for some more useful things... so don't count on me until much... longer..."
With these words Legate fell into a deep and dreamless sleep.

*Apart from roleplay, which I like very much and of course do that as well, and of course it's just the first Day... but it'd be good to also try to keep at least some gaming info even in the roleplay posts...

**(EDIT: I originally wrote Sleepy there but I realized what he wrote on the Admin Thread.)

(cross-posted with Nogrod)

How have I lied? Do you mean my in-character comments about Mac? I was...flirting...with...him. Capisci?

Not so much that (as I said already) but with Gil. You accuse him of in-character accusations (alongside with Spm) and I don't think he has made any. On the contrary he has been pretty reasonable in his posting so far...

Gil jumped on my comments about Mac; which were (I thought) blatently in-character/meta.

i'm afraid it wasn't m'dear


but i must agree with Nogrod, it would hurt to lose Rikae if she was innocent mainly because she is a smart innocent and can defiantely contribute to us, but if she was the vampire or shade, then i guess we must be careful and determine exactly where she stands...

That is the curse of Day1's. As we have seen, those who have contributed the most toDay (by posting, thinking aloud, suspecting, taking stances, whatever one can call "substantial posting") are also those who have been talked about the most and thence suspected the most. I agree I have fallen into this myself as well although I have tried to have the brakes on just because of that.

Surely if we have a strong case for believing the village has an active Vampire who's trying to lead us astray let's lynch that one and be done away with her/him toDay. But without a good case I would never vote for an active villager on Day1. That's plain folly I think.

It's a bit too early to speak of the non-posters or the safe-posters as yet, but I might just say that I'm inclined to look at those people when the Day draws near the end. The quiet baddies are the most frightful and they become more so with every Day that passes. So on Day1 - if we don't have an actually good case - it's safest to vote for someone who has laid low and trust the probabilities. Later in the game we don't have the luxury of doing that anymore...

But let's see. I must also take rest now but I'll be back later toDay. In the worst case pretty late indeed.

I have been reading, but haven't really had a chance to read into what is being said, if you know what I mean. Thus far I have seen little to rise my alarm about anyone, but I do have some concerns about the voting.

Obviously it has been quite the topic already, but I'm a bit worried about this being a double-edged sword. Though the vampires have no vote and will clearly be lying about who they voted for (should SpM's plan be followed), I wonder if others will not lie as well. It seems unlikely, but unless I've read the rules wrong the vampires have a seer, a ranger, and a hunter on their side, correct? All of those folk receive votes, as does the shade. That's four votes that the voter could lie about to the village. Revealing our votes is a good idea, but I'm a bit hesitant given the amount of people who have the potential to lie about it and screw with the village.

I have to run, but I'll be back, hopefully with more solid ideas/facts.

Xyzzy walks toward the river. Pulling a sharp stone from the middle, he drys it on his shirt and walks over to the wood pile, whistling a merry tune. Grabbing a long piece of wood, he begins to sharpen an end of it. Over the time of about an hour, he begins to sharpen it. When he is satisfied with the end of the staff, he begins smoothing the rest of the stick. He walks over to the fire, shouting, "Got us a knife!" Seeing the strange looks he receives, he says, "Err, maybe it's a sword... or something, but... anyway, give me about a year and I could probably make a [OOC: insert something ancients would have that can do fingerprinting.] out of grass!"
[OOC]I roleplay soooo clichely...[/OOC]

*Appears from the shades* ahh yes it defeats the idea, but it is up to us to decide which idea we like the most and want to make a "rule".

hmmm I forget can women and vampires vote here? if not and we are told the number of votes for each individual it would actually be possible to make a system that would be helpful of catching vampires. . .

*goes back into the shades*

EDIT: I forgot to disapear again. . .

Kitanna: As I read the rules, I thought that each of the three vampires had one of those gifts - one vampire with the powers of a Seer, one with the powers of a Ranger and the last with the Hunter's skills.

The Shade is also interesting. There's absolutely no way to know which side that particular one will be siding with.

So that's three non-voters who are going to be lying and one enigma.

Hmm, I must say that Rikae doesn't seem to be creating a lot of trust for me at the moment. She comes up with a meta-explanation and then tries to shift the blame onto Gil-Galad. Not that I'm inclined to think of Gil as absolutely innocent, but given the erratic style he usually uses, he makes a good scapegoat.

I'll probably vote for Rikae toDay.

Hey.

Well, I'm overwhelmed, but then I always am when I've got two pages worth of posts to read through. It all ends up blurring together and I can rarely form suspicions because I'm too busy trying just to get through it all. I'll read it over again. I will be voting within the next two hours and then I have to be going. I won't be back before day end.

Honestly, I don't really feel like announcing who I vote for. Make of that what you will.

Rikae saunters out of the doorway, smoking a cigarette (hey, Rikae doesn't smoke! Shhh...).

"Do I detect a hint of misogyny?"

"Do I detect a hint?

And what's that got to do with the price of a plane ticket to Germany?"
Rikae sat down on an overturned pillar beside the fire and poked idly at the embers with a stick.
"It seems I've stirred things up a bit. Which was exactly my intention."
She looked Nogrod in the eyes. Metallica songs ran through her mind.
"If you wish to lynch me, so be it. But I will have my say.
I tested the waters with a bantering accusation of Mac and a only slightly serious one of Esspien. Esspien responded with what appeared to me as excessive defensiveness, while Gil-Galad (and Menel) thought me suspicious for 'suspecting two people', when clearly, I was not serious in my suspicion of Mac" ...she paused and glanced at Mac with a smile and a :Merisu: .... "I've done what I can, at this early hour, to reveal the wolves. A lot of thanks I get for my troubles, too."
She tossed the cigarette butt into the flames, unfolded herself, stretched and wandered off into the darkness.

OOC - rather, Menel thought me suspicious for suspecting Gil, though he admits Gil looks suspicious. This should send warning signals to anyone...but ...bah. Go ahead. Lynch me.
I am the weaver! :p

Rikae, I didn't say that Gil looked particularly suspicious. He was simply an unknown on my list.

No, what you do detect is that I have knowledge about voting system in other places, but not here.

Maybe you do and maybe you don't

Hmm, what are we supposed to take from that? You're sound like you want to look neutral - like a mysterious middleman, who would do very well to take the protection of the Vampires. After all, I'm sure they woludn't mind the additional power... and the vote.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

I typed as I read, so forgive if I'm repeating what's been said or seem a bit disjointed.

If I'd have been here first, I would have said it myself. After all, the innocent have no need to lie. We wouldn't be able to use vote placement, but that's overrated anyways. Analysis, analysis, analysis....

I'll be making a chart of suspicions and "votes" as much as possible, if anyone's interested, by the way.

And oh, for heaven's sake people, yes, the new game is fun, but if this in characterness doesn't stop soon, we aren't getting anywhere. Please, please, focus, just a little.

Gil, your initial suspicion of Sleepy is faulty- he's not the only in character poster. I dare say those of us who aren't are the minority right now. I really hope you can come up with better and more sensical reasons.

Are you ever optimistic on Day 1? We have all the solid evidence we need- in people's posts. You can't take back what you've said. And if you're lying, you will be caught in a contradiction.

Either Sixth hasn't been reading, or he's spinning things. I don't trust Rikae any more than I trust anyone else here, but Sixth is pointing out something in Rikae that hs been done already by numerous others- yet he refrains from mentioning them. Not too mention, the way he points it out can be very easily construed as doing the same thing. also:

It would only hurt the vampires, because while they can lie, the results won't change. We can easily find discrepancies in the votes afterwards. Also, you may recall that I personally checked with Volo on the Admin thread before the roles were sent to see if this would be okay. He answered positively. Indeed, there's no reason not to go with this plan.

Again, I'm not defending Rikae, but Nogrod is using some very strong language here. (With a little waffle thrown in at the end, as per usual ;) ) No, Rikae did not actually accuse anyone for in-character actions. What she did was banter with Mac, and contstruing it any other way is twisting the truth. So she did not lie about that. And Gil did accuse someone for in-characterness - Rikae and Sleepy. (You seemed to have missed that last part.

In fact, Nogrod, your whole case could be seen as an outright lie.

How was it not blatantly obvious. Seriously, explain how it could be taken as any other way.

Any villager who blatantly lies about thier vote is a traitor to the village. And while we won't know exactly who did the lying, it won't be hard to figure it out. Three people will definitely be lying. That's the whole point.

Right now, I am most suspicious of Gil and Nogrod. *experiences a sudden feeling of de ja vu* I was wrong last time, but this time- well, Nogrod's blatant lying about Rikae's "blatant lying" is worrisome, and Gil's seemingly deliberate misinterpertation of her in-character posts (I really don't see how you could mistake that for something serious) make me think the Vamps have found a scapegoat.

Well, I'm off to bed- I'll be around a little bit before the end of the Day. Hopefully, more people will talk. (Come on, there's 23 of us! We should manage a bit more noise than this.)

I disagree it is just as (if not more) important to us to get the vampires under suspicion as it is for the vampires to get anyone besides themselves under suspicion. Of course meaningless accusations like 'I think Eomer is a vampire because he eats nails for breakfast' are unsubstantial and mean nothing. However, with accusations we get reactions, but most importantly we get interaction between everyone (which has been greatly lacking so far!)...and that can lead to clues to someone's true identity.

I guess I would have to call this a difference of opinion between us. As I act primarily on 'feeling' (especially on Day 1!). A statement seems awkward to me, I get a bad 'feeling' about someone's posting, I go after 'em.

One thing I've been meaning to try out lately is asking questions...I think we all need to ask more questions to people, judge their responses see if the person appears genuine or whether their just pulling something out of their arse.

So, now onto this making our votes known...and such. It is definitely the best thing we can ask for. Yes, we know people will be lying, but that's the whole point! We can perhaps spot when someone is lying.

For example, if I'm not mistaken the lynch seer is given the number of votes that the person who will be lynched received. So, let's say if the person who gets lynched received 6 votes, yet when we go back to the previous day and tally up all of them, there were 7 votes for that person...well we know someone was lying and couldn't vote, therefor someone in that group must be a vampire. Which can be a huge benefit to us as we now know someone in that group couldn't vote and therefor is a vampire.

Also, as Roa said, there is absolutely no reason any innocent should lie about their vote. If they do they are exactly what Roa said...a traitor and are only helping the vampires. If this making our votes known is to work, all innocents must be completely honest, as we already have at least 3 who won't be.

Having listened quietly to the accusations and discussions flying about, Shasta felt it was time to put in his say. He tossed a rock into the fire to gain everyone's attention.

"First of all, I'd like to address the following."

"I was merely stating that without any evidence, an execution would be a shot in the dark. We have a chance of either executing an important innocent, such as someone who could tell who the vampires are, or protect from them, or having them reveal their role in order NOT to be executed, and then becoming a prime target for the vampires. The vampires already have a free kill tonight, and the chances of hitting a vampire during a first-day execution is miniscule, to say the least. I see no reason to do the vampires' work for them by killing off an innocent when we have nearly no chance of hitting a vampire."

He looked meditatively into the fire, then went on.

"Also, Gil seems suspicious to me... Mostly, it's his blatant misreading of Rikae's bantering accusations. It was perfectly obvious to me, at least, that it was only a joke... He does seem, at first glance, to be trying to snare a scapegoat."

Okay, I've had enough brooding. I'm back.

I must admit with 23 of us, it is a bit overwhelming. There are so many different possibilities on who could be the Vampires. For now, the only one who sticks out to me is Rikae. Her accusing behaviour is most disconcerting, and I find that she is rather...what's the word...jumpy, I guess is how I could describe it. Unless someone else suddenly turns suspicious to me, she remains my most likely voting candidate.

I don't understand why there is some controversy on whether to publicly announce our intended votes or not. An innocent should have no problem with sharing his or her vote. Yes, while an error in judgement could possibly be harmful another Day, not sharing your vote at all I think would result in worse consequences. Having control of the votes is the biggest power us innocents have, and right now, that is a great advantage to have as we clearly outnumber the Vampires. The only way we can be most effective in capturing our baddies is if all of us innocents remain honest and share our votes with one another.

Well, it's been a long day. I need some sleep before making my decision...

I don't have much experience in these games, but is this what players often do on Day 1? It happened in the Unknown Enemies. . . I suppose it is a good way to get the game going, and mystery among the villagers might help the Vampires.

Was this hostility part of your character, or did you actually MEAN it? :eek:

This will sound like I'm defending Gil, but last game he accused me and others relatively shakily and it turned out he was innocent. It is quite hard with him to tell if he is innocent or what.

I also suspected Rikae, even before reading the posts saying you guys do too. She just seemed the most erratic so far, and apparently

Wonderful, isn't it? All this fear, paranoia and loathing. It is the the sweetest entertainment. Reminds me of the old poetry, it does... :smokin:

But if we want to get down to business:

Behaviour. Patterns. Tone. Utilise them.

Roa and Boro have the right idea and I think them the wisest among us at the moment.

To make something else happen:

Kitanna is a vampire. I am very suspicious of what she has done.

(By the way, are the numbers of votes given in the next day? Because that would surely give us a huge advantage.)

Lomiella emerged from a more distant part of the cave, combing her long, black hair with her fingers and yawning. "I needed sleep after such horrible events... I hope you excuse me." She flashed her eyelashes and settled among the others, straightening her yellow skirt.

I, too, agree with SPM's suggestion. It will put nice pressure on the baddies and will give us something to go on. It's very sensible. Then we just have to take care that we remember to both vote here and send the vote to our mod - (I know I could make the mistake and forget actual voting since I'd already have voted once. :rolleyes: :p) We must be careful not to make these mistakes since that might cause fatal errors in the data.

I don't see what this mess about Rikae is. I think she seems pretty normal and bantery. Noggie and Gil seem to be allied against her, and I find it very weird.

Lomiella gets up and casts a pretty smile - with fluttery eyelashes of course - to all the other people gathered around the fire. "Ill take a little stroll around the cave and think more about things. I'll be back."

Mac has a knife again now. He examines it gleefully and then hides it with and evil smirk on his face.


And I bet you want to be the one who does, don't you? :p


Knew it! :D


Anyway, please, don't be suspicious of Rikae for flirting with me, I'd make me feel guilty. :)
The thing that does make me suspicious of her, however, is that she does little else than flirting, in-character things, self-defense and a flimsy case against Nogrod and Gil.


If we do get the exact number, it will be even better if the figures are correct! I mean, that would be a lot of known innocents all at once, wouldn't it? (though the semi-innocent shade might be among them)


So far, there has been a lot in-character stuff. It's all nice and funny, sure, but come on...

A lot of vague and baseless accusations there have been, too, but that's how Day Ones are, and better have them vague and baseless than have no accusations at all. Of course the chances to catch a vampire toDay are slim and those to kill and innocent are high, but that's how it works. It's a slim chance, but it's the only one we have.


Talking of vague and baseless accusations, here are mine now:


Boro has already said it, and I agree: Legate is being too nice for my liking, too.


It seems like everybody (but Six) is approving the idea, but this approval here somehow sounds like it has been said with a little reluctance. I'm probably interpreting too much, but it looks to me like she's agreeing and sowing a seed of doubt at the same time.
In her later post Brinn takes a clearer stance, but still.

I'm also perceiving some strange karma from Meneltarmacil.

Rikae emerges from the shadows, carrying a large pillow. She places it on top of the broken pillar and sits down again.

"I think Eomer has a good point about Kitanna. I can't quite believe she would honestly make the mistake of thinking the gifteds were on the vampires' side. I would be interested in hearing more from her.
And as for you, Mac, I ought to suspect you for claiming I made a case against Nogrod when I did not.

As I recall, I said I didn't trust Esspiem and Gil. In retrospect, though, since Esspiem had self-defense to think of and Gil is almost always suspicious; Menel's reaction worried me more. I admit, I made a mistake in my response, translating "accusing people based on in-character bantering is suspicious" to "Gil is suspicious" in my mind, simply because that's what Gil did when he called me "very suspicious" for "suspecting two people" (Mac and Esspiem.)
I might seem to be harping on this too much, but I didn't respond for self-defense so much as to point out that Menel is not making sense here.

Ack! Gil and Espiem, I meant. :rolleyes:

I have cast my vote for Kitanna. On reflection, it was rather odd to think that the vampire-seer/ranger/hunter were additional roles.

And now, I must be off to wander the streets of the village.

Well, I just sent in my vote for Rikae, and that should be all for toDay.

I've just had a last-minute change of heart. I was going to vote for Rikae, but reading over the posts, decided it better if we left her alone for a while. I am, however, afraid that Day 2 we might forget about her comments here.

The person I have decided to vote for is Gil. As I said, for me at least he is very indescernable, and it is Day 1 after all. We may as well have a shot in the dark than take out a potentially valuable innocent like Nogrod or Rikae.

Hell, I don't know how to act on Day 1. Last game we got a wolf Day 1 and it was wierd after that.

Sorry guys but that was my last post for the Day. Looking forward to the bloodbath that will follow with so many gifteds and vampires. Back in the next 10 hours or so.

I think that, for clarity's sake, we all should vote like we normally do. So in order to find these two again later:

Celuien: ++Kitanna

Menel: ++Rikae

On Kitanna
 

I understood that she was referring to the vampire-gifteds not to some additional gifteds that are on the vampire's side, yet everybody else seems to be interpreting her words the other way... Is there some problem with my interpretation (as my English is, regrettably, slightly faulty) or are some people jumping on weird conclusions? :confused:

Bandwagon?

Bandwagon what? :confused:

Rikae mentioned that I had 'a good point about Kitanna.' But I didn't. I didn't have a single point about Kitanna. All I said was that she's a vampire and then, from nowhere, Rikae and Celuien are on her case. You, Lommy, can't understand their reasoning, and neither can I.

In answer to Lommy:
Kitanna said (bolding mine)
So clearly, sha's saying that these gifteds, while on the side of the vampires, have votes (which means they are not vampires themselves).
I still don't know whether to chalk it up to misunderstanding, though.