![]() |
Boyens did state in the commentary track to TT:
Quote:
So, it certainly seems that Boyens thinks she has improved on Tolkien's work .... |
Quote:
|
Still awaiting the exact source of that stinging Jackson boast. All of my DVD's are at the ready to be thrown into the trash heap along with all the movie memorabillia, film books, and anything that even has to do with New Zealand.
|
Galendor here is that exact quote that William Cloud Hicklin attributed to Peter Jackson:
Quote:
Elmo - it is sometimes difficult to find an exact quote on the net. I have every confidence that Mr. Hicklin is soon to post with the exact source of that Jackson quote and then you can double check its authenticity. Merry Christmas to all. |
I am of the same opinion as Elmo: that this 'quote' of PJ is a myth. I can imagine Phillipa Boyens saying something like that, but not PJ. At least not in those exact words. Maybe something like 'Tolkien's narrative was somewhat slow-paced and plodding'(which wouldn't be wholly incorrect).
If Peter really had that little respect for the books, he wouldn't have gone to such great lenghts to adapt them and the Hobbit. |
I've seen the exact quote on a few websites, including various fora, but I've never seen the original source/interview. Would be nice to know where it came from. Don't know if he actually said it, but it would explain the approach he took to filming the books better than the old nonsense about 'movies are different to books'. I'll keep an open mind.....
|
from davem
Quote:
|
Quote:
At this point, I doubt he said it, but then again I wouldn't be surprised either. If he did say this thing, even if drunk on spirits or riding high on critic-adulation, it would be such a crass statement that it would sorely influence my opinion of his character and motives. I might also throw away my movie box sets. I will wait to see if WCH knows any reputable source. I ordered the ROTK Platinum Edition movie, when it comes I might (shudder) watch all of the "bonus commentary" to see if Jackson et al. utter any such blasphemy therein. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Also, if that were true Peter would have accepted Bob Shaye's offer to direct only one LOTR film. But he declined and decided that he couldn't be involved in it as it'd be a travesty. So Bob Shaye decided to hand over the one film project to another director: unless PJ found another financier. Quote:
|
After much searching, I have to acknowledge that in its many appearences on the Internet, the alleged quote from PJ is never sourced. This of course is not affirmative evidence of its non-existence, since many print interviews never reach e-form; but without a traceable source I'll have to withdraw it.
However, the DVD 'extras' fairly drip with this attitude, if not stated so bluntly: time after time PBW go on and on about how X or Y 'doesn't work' or how the 'story arc' requires that a refuge (a characteristic element in Tolkien) must be converted into an obstacle, or how they just needed to stick in a fight to juice things up. |
from Galendor
Quote:
I wonder why anyone would intentionally put forth a falsehood which can be so damaging to a persons reputation? Wait - here is the answer. Galendor says that such a statement would "sorely influence my opinion of his character and motives" and further he may even "throw away my movie box sets". It very well could be that statements such as the one posted about Mr. Jackson are part of a campaign to throw mud on the name of an otherwise innocent person who did not say those words. In fact, every statement we have from Mr. Jackson regarding JRRT and his works is glowingly positive and supportive and respectful. |
Quote:
|
I have seen that 'quote' used a number of times, but never seen any attribution.
I suspect that it is a misquote of something like: "There are parts of Tolkien's tale which we felt would not work well on screen, so we made changes based upon what we felt would work better in the visual medium". That, of course is not a direct quote, but represents the approach which appears to hae been adopted by Jackson, Walsh and Boyens. And I can fully understand why, given the different nature of the two media. I do not believe that Jackson has ever said anything derogatory of the books, at least publicly, and I would be surprised if he had any negative feelings towards them. As far as I am aware, he has expressed only praise for Tolkien and his works, most notably in his Oscar acceptance speech, when he paid tribute to the man. |
After that long and intolerable detour...
...perhaps we can get back to the subject matter -- what can or could or should be in the "intertestamental" movie?
|
Quote:
Now, I believe I suggested a movie about the fall of the North Kingdom with Liam Neesson as Arvedui and Max Von Sydow playing Malbeth the Seer. Anybody have a better suggestion? |
Quote:
|
from WCH regarding the damaging Jackson "quote"
Quote:
" a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." This whole flap is an excellent illustration for the need of checks and balances, viewpoints from a variety of perspectives. People engaged in preaching to the choir rarely are challenged to produce sources. This is a good thing. oh - how does one prove that something does not exist? |
As I've said before, can't somebody create a new thread to discuss the matter of the quote? I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet, considering that over half the posts are off-topic.
|
zxcvbn
your frustration is understandable, but in the end, lots of discussion here comes down to the pro vs. anti film discussion coloring nearly every other issue. You just have to roll with the punches my friend...;) |
Quote:
(which I doubt would bother PJ and Friends) th second could start with Gandalf narration connecting TH with the White Council attack on Dol Guldur after a debate by the Counci. By aging Aragorn about 10 years from his actual 10 years old at the time you could have him lead the Dunedain assisting the attack and set up his first tryst with Arwen. I don't have the appendix with me at the moment. Would Theoden have been around then? One might imagine elements of the Rohirrim either joining in the attack or joining in while on a scouting expedition west of the Anduin. And you could later have Aragorn's journeys in Rohan and Gondor included (more battles for PJ :eek: ). |
It really doesn't matter what is 'included' in the bridge film: it can never be anything other than fanfic. This is not remotely the same as taking a full novel and condensing it to a screen runtime, where all the detail is present and much of it has to be chucked overboard, but rather the expansion of a handful of staccato entries in the Tale of Years with synthetic filler: rather like silicone-pumping a pair of A-cups to Dolly Parton size.
|
Moderator's note
Quote:
If members object to straying away from the original subject, they are welcome to post something that will get the discussion back on track. :) Anyone can start a new thread with a diverging topic to keep that discussion separate, and if you asks nicely ;) we are perfectly willing to merge, split or move threads and posts. If that involves posts by others, please do get their permission before asking. |
From the wise Mr. Hicklin
Quote:
|
The Hobbit sequel: What will it contain?
Link:
http://www.wildbluffmedia.com/2007/1...-and-a-sequel/ So apparently there will be two movies filmed simultaneously. The first will cover the full storyline in the Hobbit. The second will bridge the 60 year gap between TH and the beginning of LoTR. I'm a bit surprised about this choice; I'd have though there were other parts of JRRTs works that would make a better movie. Not so sure what actually happened during this time. Not much drama that I can remember. Would be cool perhaps to see an incarnate Sauron return to Barad Dur (as opposed to that silly red eye), and the White Counsil's attack on Dol Guldur. The though of the scriptwriters being a given free reign to make up much of the storyline worries me a bit. Still, two movies are better than one I suppose. So what do you think this movie will contain? And what would you like it to contain? |
I think they will included the Dol Guldor storyline with The Hobbit, as for the in-between thing maybe it could show the Angmar storyline that is featured in the appendices.
|
Could someone help me list what is written about these 60 years between TH and LoTR? This is what I can remember:
The Hobbits drink their ale and plow their earth. The elves remember the good old days. Balin goes to Moria and have himself killed. Gollum goes to Mordor and is caught by Sauron, who's just returned. He's then caught by Aragorn who is quite busy during this time. What else? |
Quote:
|
Er.....actually I'd like to see that one......
|
^I'd like to see Aragorn cursing his ill fate of falling for an almost unattainable elven princess in his youth.
After all, despite his noble lineage and rugged hunkyness he's very likely to be an 80-year old virgin in LoTR. In high elven culture (which Aragorn is brought up into) marriage is consumated by the union of love, and an elf can see in someone's eye's whether he/she already has a mate. In Rivendell: Arwen: "Is so nice talking to you, my love. Meet me again tomorrow and we'll talk again." Aragorn: "Right. Let's talk again tomorrow. But now I'm going for a a cold shower under a waterfall of icy meltwater from the mountains." |
Skip spence: re your query: "Could someone help me list what is written about these 60 years between TH and LoTR?"
This is from the tale of the years: Quote:
Gollum searching for the Ring the rebuilding of Barad-dur Nazgul occupying Dol Guldur Elrond explaining aragorn's ancestry the White Council (and bits form the unfinished tales can be used here) saruman off to isengard aragorn / gandalf friendship frodo born aragorn / arwen and all it entails! gollum meets shelob!! balin - moria - (fights no doubt!) and destruction of the colony saruman ensared by sauron in the palantir rangers begin guard of shire enough for a couple of hours I rekcon! they could also be a little bit artisitic with the timings and show some form of attack on dol guldur (and retreat by sauron) wich technically takes place during the Hobbit timeline I suppose |
Interesting. I'd forgotten how much could be
made of pre-Bilbo Gollum. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Therefore, the Tale of Years from the LotR appendix dating from the 3rd Age should be covered under the film rights. |
from Morthoron
Quote:
I would point out that the film rights were sold BEFORE the publishing of the SIL. If you have factual documentation to support this new, far more restrictive viewpoint, I would love to read it. |
I have a recording of Raynor Unwin (Tolkien's publisher & very close friend) at the launch of Unfinished Tales in 1981 in which he states that the reason Tolkien struggled so much with the Appendices to LotR was that he effectively had to 'compress' the whole of the Silmarillion into them. Hence, one could argue that parts of Appendix A & B represent yet another version of the 'Silmarillion' - in fact, one could push it & take the words of Sam & Frodo on the stairs, that they are both part of the story of Beren & Luthien & the Silmaril to claim that what Tolkien actually sold the rights to was a small section of the Legendarium as a whole & that he (or his estate) is obligated to let them have the whole thing, because the Silmarillion is effectively part of LotR (or vice versa) - in fact Tolkien struggled for a long time to get the two works published together, as he felt that LotR could not be understood without a knowledge of the Silmarillion...
And certainly I think its pretty much beyond argument that he would have sold the film rights to the Sil writings when he sold the Hobbit & LotR rights - if anyone had wanted them. Another interesting comment from Tolkien himself - Humphrey Carpenter related that when he went to see Tolkien to ask him if it was all right to put on a production of the Hobbit at a local school Tolkien told him he thought it was a very sill idea, but who was he (Tolkien) to stop him? He even suggested tunes for the songs (which mostly took the form of Gregorian Chant & which Carpenter decided was hardly right for a prep school production), & went along to see the performance, critiquing it severely at the end (while drinking all the wine from Carpenter's glass...). In the end, I think its clear that Tolkien's attitude to dramatisation of his work came down to a conviction that the whole idea was 'silly' & bound to fail miserably, but (as long as he was asked for permission & received proper remuneration) it was fine with him. |
Quote:
Having been involved in the game through the alpha and beta processes (and previously while the game was still in design), I can tell you that there are certain things the game cannot show or discuss, including anything dealing with 1st Age Middle-earth in the appendices; however, if there is a mention of a 1st Age name or place within the actual text of either The Hobbit or LotR, then said reference is allowed. For instance, Aragorn referring to Beren and Luthien is allowed because it is in the actual text, but the term 'Valar' or 'Maiar' is not because there is no mention directly in the text. Anything that predates a 3rd Age reference within the game must be passed by Tolkien Enterprises to assure they remain within their rights. I will offer an update as soon as I hear more. |
That is a great spot to be in. Sounds like a great job.
One thing that I am not clear about. The game is licensed by Saul Zaentz through rights he has purchased from UA decades ago. Even if the license the game people have prohibit the mention of certain First and Second Age things, why would that necesarrily mean that the rights Zaentz posesses would limit him in the same way? It could simply mean that Zaentz wants to limit the scope of rights to others and he himself is not under the same limitations. Or the limitations placed on the games license could simply be to limit the scope of content to events already in the films and Zaentz or New Line does not want new ground covered if they themselves have not yet done it. All this is theory of course. |
Quote:
In addition, I got physically ill at the lore atrocities evident in every fiber of the game, and have not played since prior to the game's official release due to mental health considerations (thus retaining what little sanity I still have). Quote:
1) If references appear only in the Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit, thou shalt use them. 2) If references appear in both the actual text of LotR and TH, and in The Silmarillion (or other Tolkien publication controlled by the Tolkien Family Trust, such as UT or HoMe), thou shalt use them. 3) If references appear in The Silmarillion or other Tolkien publication, but not in LotR or TH, thou shalt not use them. 4) If references appear in the LotR Appendices, but not in The Silmarillion or other Tolkien publication, thou shalt use them. 5) If references appear in the LotR Appendices, and in The Silmarillion or other Tolkien publication, but do not appear in the actual text of LotR or TH, thou shalt not use them. Again, as you pointed out Mr. White, this may merely be a measure of control Tolkien Enterprises has exerted on the users of the gaming license (in this case Turbine, but also Electronic Arts, which controls the X-Box and PSP gaming license); however, as litigious as the Tolkien Family Trust is known to be (as you know, they are currently suing Newline... http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/12/bu...vie.html?fta=y), it is perhaps wise on Tolkien Ent's part to ensure that there is not the slightest hint of impropriety in their handling of their licenses in regards to the exclusive rights Tolkien Family Trust exerts over what remains of Tolkien's legacy. Or, perhaps more to the point, they are limited by copyright law against using references to The Silmarillion (unless specified) within their license. After all, even though Tolkien Enterprise's licensing rights are granted in perpetuity, they can be revoked by the courts (which I am sure would please Christopher Tolkien, and be the crowning achievement of his curmudgeonly struggle for control of his father's legacy). P.S. It is interesting to note that Games Workshops PLC is the only company currently that holds permissions from both Tolkien Enterprises and the Tolkien Family Trust to merchandise products. The permissions granted by the Tolkien Family Trust is limited to one single product: the game figurines of Khamûl the Easterling (as you know, the name Khamûl does not appear in the text of LotR of The Hobbit). |
Quote:
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:00 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.