Elf - Cirdan; he was smart. He stayed out of all the messes until he saw a decisive move. Also, I think he was the oldest, and kept a close eye on the sea, sending the lingering Exiles into the West

Dwarf - Durin. Even Gimli revers/worships his memory. We have pages of Gimli's adoration for Durin around the Moria scenes.

If we're talking LOTR I'd say Galadriel because
1) she was one of the Noldor elves who had seen the light of Valar
2) had one of the elven rings
3) her gifts were pivotal to the success of the Fellowship
4) she passed the test and refused the one ring

This is a toughy! My personal favortie elf is either Galadriel or Legolas. Galadriel is like, whoa! the greatest elf in ME, other than maybe Elrond, she's got a great ring, a lot or power, not to mention SHE'S A GIRL! The only downside is Celeborn. Now if she could marry Legolas, who is by far the coolest and most special guys elf in ME, then everything would be perfect!

I feel sorry for Celeborn. Almost everyone thinks Galadriel made a mistake marrying him. Why? he is a King, and without him Galdariel would not be the Queen of Loth-Lorien since she is a Noldo and they are Teleri. Celeborn is not a coward; On several occasions he fights and wins battles. So give him a little credit, he is far cooler than Legolas who is just a little boy compared to Celeborn.

Elves....

For intelligence
Cirdan - is smart and actually stays alive long enough to grow a beard
Ingwe - not gettin involved


Brave, etc
Fingolfin - actually hurts Morgoth
Ecthelion/Glorfindel 1 - slay balrogs
Feanor - i dislike the guy but did fight a load of balrogs (and lose) but we won't dwell on that
Finarfin - havin the guts to turn around for Aman

craftsmen
feanor - well duh...silmarils
Celebrimbor - rings (and for renouncing his father he is smart, good move!)

inspirational leaders
Fingolfin - leads by example
Finrod - gets his hands dirty (with own blood)

Dwarves, in my opinion, are all too cocky and up tight. Relax and take an entdraft and maybe some of Tom Bombadil's weed!

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

What about worst elf????

feanor - cocky
celeborn/curufin - aldulterers
caranthir - serious attitude problem

notice all are Noldorin!

Celeborn was Teleri

She also defied the Valar twice, first by joining the Revolt of the Nolder because she desired to rule, and second by refusing the Valar at the end of the First Age to return to Valinor, thereby being banned from the West.

Feanor was the greatest in spirit and the greatest craftsman but certainly not the greatest Elf.

There are several who could be the greatest Elf in ME:

Finrod: who helped the Edain, and in the end gave up his own life to save Beren.

Glorfindal: Who gave his own life to save the escapees from Gondolin, then returned to ME later to defend the Elves and the Northern Kingdom against the Witchking, as well as aiding the Hobbits to Rivendell.

GilGalad: Who fought Sauron and his minions through out the Second Age, and lost his life in the Last Alliance.

Elrond: Who fought Sauron in Eraidor and gathered what people he could from Hollin and founded the refuge of Imladris. Also being skilled in healing and extremely Elven wise he aided the Dunedain of the North and fostered the Heirs to the Throne since the days of Valendil. Also he was instrumental in the forming of the Fellowship and the decision to destroy the Ring.

[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: Elrian ]

Although you spelled Glorfindel and Gil-galad's names wrong, you are right. You mention a lot of cool elves, and Galadriel is way overrated.

sorry, my mistake.

I meant celegorm/curufin

not celeborn/curufin

The greatest elf is without a doubt Feanaro. His skills are sans pareil. He had the will to go against the Valar in Aman and to wage war against the most powerful being in the world Melkor. He never turned back or wavered and fought until the end.
In ME, i would say that the greatest elf was Luthien, for making Melkor asleep and moving Mandos to pity.

Ah well, I don't claim to be perfect [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
I see alot of mis-spellings in here but don't point them out as most are just typo's from fast fingers.

Luthien, good choice, very good choice. But she chose to be mortal, so we tend to forget she was an Elf once.

I am glad that you weren't offended; I mak many erors too, sinse enklish isnt me nativ langaug. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I see many who point out feanor as the greatest elf, but he had some great character problems; His pride got him into troubles many times, and he is not very nice against his half-brothers when you think about Fingolfin trying to be a brother for him. I say that the mistakes such as the Kin-slaying in Alqualönde and the burning of the white ships at Losgar, plus the trouble his oath made, makes him unworthy of the title.

Daniel TelContar: uh-oh. . . we're starting up again!!! not the Celeborn thing again! Do I have to restate my argument? I'll give Celeborn a lot of credit. He's great. Do you want to know why many people like legolas better? lets put it this way: If Orlando Bloom had played the part of Celeborn, everyone would be crazy about Celeborn. So there... now you know that most people don't have anything against him. Its just this: most girls like Galadriel cuz she's like the coolest girl in the series and they all want to be her (kind of). but they also all like orlando bloom, so they want Galadriel to marry him.

Now as for me personally, I liked Legolas and Galadriel before I ever saw the movie or any preview for it! So (hehe) are we clear now? (actually, this is kinda fun!)

The greatest elf of middle-earth or all of ea? if all of ea then Ingwe.if just the ones that came to ME then Fingolfin. He nearly took Morgoth (the most powerful being in all of Ea) single handedly. Or Gil-galad. He saw through the guise sauron as Annatar. Possesed two elven rings for a time, established a relationship with Prince Aldarion who's father was Tar-Meneldur. Led the Last Alliance etc etc.

I will for myself define 'greatest' as 'most noble'

Luthien, Finrod and Galadriel tie for me.

Self -sacrifice, devotion, wisdom, and love.

the Athrabeth shows a glimpse deep into Finrod's mind and faith, if we had similar view into his cousins, uncle's only galadriel would come up even, w/ Maedhros and Maglor probably close but saddly tainted by the curse. We never get to 'see' Fingon, except for dying and saving maedhros.
To understand the full extant of galadriel's behind the scene contributions one must read UT's chapter on her and C.

Luthien for, to me, obvious reasons.

Despite your explanations of the acting, one still has to question the validity of your opinion when you make a statement like "The only downside is Celeborn. Now if she could marry Legolas, who is by far the coolest and most special guys elf in ME, then everything would be perfect!" You should check out the Unifnished Tales and see what Celeborn has done. What did Legolas do before he became involved in the War of the Ring? Not much. Basing your opinion of a literary character on the attractiveness of the actor portraying him hardly seems plausible.

Elrian, findorfin, and Daniel Telcontar all had pretty good answers. I don't really consider Luthien in the running for such a title...she was half Maiar, which gave her an advantage, and she chose to become mortal. Galadriel is an obvious candidate. Finwe, Fingolfin, Finarfin, Finrod, and Gil-Galad all get nominations for their great Noldorin legacy..

Feanor and Thingol, I feel, also should be considered despite their personality flaws. How many elves caused as big a rave-up as Feanor? How many elves wed a Maiar?

In addition, Celeborn and Elrond are possibilities for their leadership and strides against evil as they watched their kindred leave them for the West. These two were strong in character, selflessly devoted to the cause of peace for their people (Celeborn) and for all of Middle-earth (Elrond). With Gandalf, Elrond was the backbone of the good side of the War of the Ring.

Maybe Ecthelion and Glorfindel, for obvious reasons.

Perhaps Ingwe - he had the foresight to avoid all the Middle-earth chaos and head to Valinor.

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]

Finglofin is the most valiant of the Elf-kings. <font color="blue">But on the other hand, if Luthien hadn't married Beren there'd be no Elrond, no Elros, no Dior, or Arwen, or even Aragorn, etc., etc., etc.

...and if Thingol hadn't wed Melian, there'd be no Luthien.

The importance of following generations do not make a previous generation 'greater.'

Feanor would have to be my choice, just because he was great and I loved him when I read the Silmarrilion. I was also fond of Gil-Galad.

Well...i would choose Legolas, as one of the greatest elves, but I would probably go with Elrond more....i guess

LeGoLaSz gUrL

Why Legolas?

Thraduil.
Why?
Because I like to be different sometimes. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

It would be hard to say who is the greatest elf. Me, well, All I can say is that Feanor was the most powerful, Luthian the fairest, Finrod the kindest to men, Fongolfin was a good king, Legolas was the coolest (hehehe) and Celeborn the most unpopular for some reason. I wonder cause nobody would say he is the coolest or best. Huh makes you wonder. Plus he's Jango Fett on star wars.

<font color="bronze"> Is he really? How come several of the actors from LOTR were also in Star Wars? And how would they find time to go back and forth between different studios to film?

Feanor, he was the greatest elven smith ever (creating the Silmarils is no everyday job and he was the only one who could do that), and he was a great leader too, many followed him to Middle Earth.

We could all argue back in forth forever debating who the 'Greatest' Elf was.

All we can really say is our opinions [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Fingolfin is my hero.

Mornie Alantie - actually, I think Celeborn is "cool."

Luthien - I'd say they were not filmed simultaneously. All three trilogies were filmed together and finish (as far as I know) before the shooting for Attack of the Clones.

Great responses everyone! But I happen to know som crazy girls who like (more like love) Celeborn and Elrond. I had no idea celeborn played Jango Fett! Too bad he died... [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] Oh, and the filmed Star Wars after they filmed the whole LotR.

Anyways, I think Elrond would still have my vote for greatest. He was a valiant leader in the Last Alliance and had great wisdom, even before his sire's time. (His sire being Earendil) He was a kin to Luthien through his mother (Elwing) and was held in high honor by both Elves and Men. his brother Elros was a Lord of Men and from him came the line of the Kings of Numenor. Gil-galad trusted him deeply, giving him Vilya, the mightiest of the Three Elven Rings, foreseeing Elrond's future. After the time of the Rings, Elrond left with Galadriel and the other Ring-bearers to Valinor.

In a matter of ethics, Elrond helped to create the Fellowship, and caused a few great events in history to happen, in which Galadriel also took part in. Rivendell was nicknamed 'The Last Homely House east of the Sea,' because it was safe, protected by the power of Vilya, and it was one of the places where fleeing Elves stopped at. Rivendell was created at the time before the Last Alliance, and Isildur's youngest son stayed there. The Shards of Narsil were later brought there by Isildur's esquire, and became the last hierlooms of the desendants of the Numenoreans.

A persons offsprings doesnt make him/her great. Its what they themselves do. yea, luthien with beren took a silmaril from the crown of morgoth etc., but that single act cant compare to some of the other actions of the Elves in ME

Legolas is the best elf, and not just because he's totally cute.
He's awesome with a bow and arrow, and he can use daggers too. Without him, the battles would have been totally different. He's completely important. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

galadriel is phat

i have to say the battles wouldnt have had a different outcome.
you say he is important? so is fingolfin,feanor,thingol,gilgalad,finrod,fingon,ga ladriel,etc.

Elves in general would be proficient with a bow and arrow - I doubt that the Fellowship would've faired worse with Glorfindel or another elf of Elrond's house.

Even if he was irreplaceable, other elves accomplished more.

TarElendil - I made that point. [img]smilies/redface.gif[/img]

and where exactly? i didnt see your post

....I think Legolas is the greatest Elf, because I want to shag him. That and, uh, he can kill lots of things....But basically, I just want to shag him.

http://www.uniquehardware.co.uk/serv...3dbiggrin3.gif


Seriously: Glorfindel & Finrod Felagund, because self-sacrifice ranks the highest on my list.

Not a big deal, I just made a note since I was posting already.

My choice for best elf is (drumroll) Caranthir! Sure, he had some attitude issues and some anger managements problems, but he is a very interesting character. He wasn't the nicest of Elves...or the most fun-loving, or the wisest, or the most handsome, or the most powerful, or the most influential, but Caranthir was important! If for no other reason to play the part of annoying younger brother who-wants-a-Silmaril-and-can't-have-one to Maedhros.

For me, 1st place is a tie between Finrod Felagund, (sorry if mis-spelled) for self sacrifice and friendship to Beren, and Fingolfin, because duh! He went and actually fought the great enemy! Morgoth was Scared! Anyway, in a close second comes Elrond, for his wisdom, his possesion of one of the great elven rings, his help in the LA, and his love of Arwen.

Down with Feanor! How can anyone like this guy? His oath basically cursed himself and all his sons, he was way too arrogant about the Silmarils, and he killed Teleri! Innocent Teleri!

Guo Si: Curufin? What are you smoking? When I read his attempt to "save" Luthien, I smacked the book on the floor and yelled at it!

I'm not crazy... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Hello, I'm back to annoy everyone again. At some point during this thread we started listing best dwarves too. Mine is most definitely Gimli. Besides the reasons others have mentioned, he was the first dwarf in who knows how long to swallow his pride and background and make friends with an Elf! That takes courage.

Adding more and getting off the subject: The worst Dwarf of all time would have to be Mim. He's a faithless, treacherous, sneaky...I'll be quiet now. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]