i have always prided myself on NOT speaking elvish. i know the odd phrase, e.g. Mae Govannen, but i do not, and have never wished to learn either Quenyan or Sindarin. the reason for this is simple. it is not a complete language, and thus not everything in it can be. i also believe that Tolkien left it unfinished for a purpose.

About a year ago, I went to the grey company web site and printed off about 21 pages of Quenya terms and phrases. I'm starting to get the hang of it... it's not as difficult as one might expect. No conjugations to worry about, no wierd twists in certain words, you just take the words you know and string them together. I'm also taking a little bit of calligraphy to learn how to write in the Tengwar alphabet so that I can write the language as well.

I was learning a while ago,but then my damned homework took over! I havn't learnt anything for a few months, but I did use Ardalambion too, and Immust recommend it, despite the dry language.

[ November 18, 2003: Message edited by: the guy who be short ]

Well, I know a little...mostly insults [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] but hey it's fun to insult people in Elvish! I hope to learn more eventually, but I can sometimes get the gist of a simple phrase...SOMETIMES...lol.

The Grey Company stuff is not Tolkien's. It's a poor copy, Sindarin and Quenya crushed togeter and blended with gibberish.

"it is not a complete language"

I did not know there was such a thing?!

As to wether any further strivings toward completeness will ever be generally accepted by mainstream speakers of Quenya that is another question, but with the publication of many, many fragments, poems, prayers, etymologies, etc in the Vinyar Tengwar Journal and JRRT's old but still relevant Qenyaqesta Lexicon in Parma Eldalamberon 12 [dig around onabove link and you will find it], our number of stems and roots and words [in Quenya or proto-Quenya, and thus often usable] has grown greatly.

btw, if some [like myself] find Helge's course a wee bit much to start off with, the following has been provisionally recommended:

Nancy Martsch's Basic Quenya

I hope to order a copy soon myself.

I've got a web site that someone said is good on here - it's called the counel or something like that. What I want to know is - how does this web site work? How do I figure everying out about it? Is this the best web site to use?
Elizabeth

[ November 22, 2003: Message edited by: Elizabeth Elindel ]

If you have questions about the functioning of another website, please ask the people there to explain it to you. We'll be happy to answer questions about the Barrow-Downs here. Thanks!

I think it's so amazing that Tolkein actually thought of these languages...rules, grammar and all. I don't know much about Tolkien, but he must have been on lonely man. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

Not lonely, well-loved by many friends throughout his life. He was simply a genius and used his incredible mind. If I had his intelligence, I would do the same.

I don't think many people have that willpower and creativity to create such a vivid world, full of such diverse races and languages. It's almost as if Middle-earth exists as a world of its own, somewhere in a parallel dimension to Earth.

are you saying that there are no complete languages? because then what would make them Incomplete? There is no Tolkien language that is complete. For example, you could easily translate The Barrowdowns into Spanish or French, but not Quenyan, its just impossible because there arent enough words in the Quenyan language.

Yes, that is true, but how does that define a language as complete or incomplete. Before Shakespeare, the english language was missing not just a few words, but many, and, even though Shakespeare had written mostly in an outdated for of English, many a word was accredited to his name. Yet wasn't English considered "complete" before him? A list of words does not make a language complete or incomplete. The great thing about language is that it never can be completed as long as someone can speak it.

I've been printing off lessons from CoE, which I've found incredibly useful.

In terms of a language being complete, I don't think it's possible, as languages constantly change, the meaning of words can be altered through the years and new words appear. So to refer to a language as complete or incomplete wouldn't really make sense...Just a thought...