I know all that. What I mean is Glorfindel doesn't do the things Arwen does, (ie: riding with Frodo and defying the Ringwraiths). BTW Arwen herself makes it clear it is 'the power of her people' not her own personal power that protects both her and Frodo by raising the river. <P> The book however makes clear that Arwen daughter of Elrond and granddaughter of Galadriel *does* have power of her own and know how to use it. Given her ancestry and her teachers, (Elrond and Galadriel) I would guess she is fairly formidable - maybe even formidable enough to stand up to Nazgul, after all Aragorn can!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I know all that. What I mean is Glorfindel doesn't do the things Arwen does, (ie: riding with Frodo and defying the Ringwraiths). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So, they could have had Glorfindel do the exact same thing.<p>[ May 02, 2003: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

Yes, but Aragorn was prophesied to stand up to them, not many people can other than him (as I already said). Arwen MIGHT have been able to, but I sincerly doubt it.

Aragorn's power comes from his Half-Elven heritage, not to mention the Maiar strain from Melian, an ancestry Arwen shares.<P> "So, they could have had Glorfindel do the exact same thing."<P> They could have but why? I like Glorfindel myself but let's face it, he makes one brief appearance then pretty much vanishes from the story. In movie terms it made sense to use the incident to flesh out a more prominent, (if drastically unused and unexplored) character.<P> Arwen *should* be more prominent! She's Aragorn's inspiration and will be Queen of Men and Elves in the Fourth Age. That Tolkien told us so little about her is a flaw, one that the movie wisely avoids repeating.<P> So far Jackson has done a fine job, IMO, of fleshing her out and creating some sympathy for her without intruding her on the action. Thank Eru he thought the better of her riding into Helm's Deep! That would have been too much and detracted from Eowyn's role.<p>[ May 02, 2003: Message edited by: Morwen Tindomerel ]

I don't mind Arwen's appearences to badly (except Aragorn's daydreaming), yet. This thread is just for people's prefrences. If you want to talk more about it, please just PM me. Thanks.

Did I sound hostile? I'm sorry, I just meant to be emphatic. As you may have gathered Book Arwen has always annoyed me, it's a pleasure to finally see an Arwen I can actually like.

I liked how Liv played Arwen in the movie, but I wished that Glorfindel would be there instead. Anyone know what I mean?

Do I like Arwen's role? In FotR, yes. In TTT, not particularly. <BR>I also think that way, way, too much sound and fury has been vented on the Arwen/Glorfindel substitution. It was a plot change, more than a character change, and it really wasn't such a sacrilege compared to the radical character overhauls we've seen. (And Tolkien himself said messing about with people's characters would upset him more than plot changes.)<BR>I think it was Diamond who suggested, in another thread, that a lot of the over-the-top ranting against Arwen, to the exclusion of other things, is down to sexism, and I would tend to agree with her. <BR>Btw why doesn't Durelin like Gandalf 'killing the Balrog all by himself' in the film? <BR>That's what he did in the book...

I don't mind Arwen taking the place of Glorifidel. I mind her role in TTT a LOT more, though.

Hmmmm………..I wonder why I didn’t notice this thread before…<P>My opinion is for Arwen’s role and not for Glorfindel.<BR>I don’t think Glorfindel was a necessity in the story (OK, maybe you guys won’t agree) and therefore PJ didn’t include him in the movie. <P>Mind you, LOTR is SO long that the movies would have gone on forever ----> if he’d included everything (not that I’d mind, I could watch LOTR forever!).<BR>Also, Arwen wasn’t described so vividly in the books so PJ probably wanted to express her more.

I think they should have focused more on Aragorns and Eowyns relationship in stead of having all those stupid Arwen scenes in The Two Towers... In fotr I think is wouls have been cool to see Glorfindel but Arwen is better than the cartoon verson from 1976 (is that the right year? think so) when they had Legolas!!!! that was just the most stupid movie in the history of movie making! As for the third movie I hope they keep Arwen true to the book.

I definitely don't like Arwen's role in the films. For me, climate of the Middle Earth resembles much Middle Ages. Men are to fight, while women stay at home. Hence, Eowyn's warrior skills are extraoridinary so she has to disguise herself to be able to go on war. In the film, with Arwen carrying a sword, a fighting woman seems to be rather a rule, not a brave exception. Due to this, there is no clear difference between Arwen's and Eowyn's characters. <BR>Besides, in my opinion sending (or maybe letting) Arwen to search for Frodo and the others is rather illogical. Didn't they have servants in Rivendell to do such things? Also, taking into account Arwen's mother's unpleasant experiences with orcs, it is strange that Elrond let his beloved daughter risk her life.