Alright then, let's force Lommy to think more about this all...

Groin - innocent enough. He's calling me silly, though. :D
Aganzir - my opinion of her varies from jumpy baddie to a sweet flibbertigibbet. Currently, I'm not worried. (And even if I were, I wouldn't vote her toDay. She hasn't played ww for ages and I like her contribution.)
Legate - does not worry me.
Kitanna - doesn't reveal much of herself. I think she tends to be more silent when she's evil but it would be very hasty draw that kind of conclusions at this phase of the game.
Gollum - don't have an opinion on yet.
Nogrod - is ghastlily silent. Where is he?
Brinniel - my greenish sister said: "Nice and confused, as always. No idea of what her role could be." and I can agree with that statement.
Sally - her normal self, which sadly does not mean we can trust her (yet).
Rikae - I can't pinpoint it, but she seems a little odd to me. Maybe she does too sharp turns, or something.
Mac - well, despite everything I've said, he seems innocentish to me, although it would be foolish to be anything close to certain. He just seems more like his innocent self than his guilty self... but I know, he has fooled me before.
Fea - innocentish, but I'd rather vote myself than bet on it.
Greenie - no idea yet.
Eönwë - another young gentleman who calls me silly. :D More innocent than guilty, but that means absolutely nothing at this phase.
Lalaith - not enough to form an opinion on. Smart as always, for sure.
McCaber, Shasta, Gwath & Eomer - given how innocent the others seem in general, they must be all evil. :rolleyes:

Ouch, no idea who to vote and bed-time approaches... I have a feeling I might vote someone who has not contributed much but given the weird deadline it does seem a little unfair...


edit: xed with Kittie

I don't think a serious person may believe anything like that, unless it is a mass conspiracy, in which case: stop that! Just for this reason, and after the experience from the last game, I put this into my very first post in this game:

Oh my! :eek:

I predicted the game would gain some speed a few hours ago only to find that there are something like one and half pages of stuff written between my last visit here and now...

To answer Lommy shortly about my "ghastly silence" as I can see her post right up above: working... sadly, working... :(

But I'll stick to reading the thread now and will be back shortly, hopefully with something to say.

Okay I read quickly through the thread in order to see if anything should catch my eye.

I think Mac and Rikae are weird.

I agree about this.

However, Rikae's certainty that Mac has a role because she hasn't is strange. The point that Di wouldn't make them both ordos is just bad. There's a certain likelihood that two good players get a special role, but there are many others than Mac and Rikae as well - and who knows if the roles were selected randomly? In any case, it definitely isn't a point I would use against somebody, and to me it seems Rikae should know better, too. I don't find it that surprising that Lommy thought her accusations of Mac were a joke.

Saying "As a wolf, I wouldn't do this" isn't really the best possible way to defend oneself.

This quote just keeps bothering me... Really I know it's quite petty but that on the same side just feels wrong. I can't explain it (I tried to write my thoughts down but got so mixed up that decided to let it be).
I don't know - Mac just seems to find the idea that one of them has a role so normal, so casual... And to him role only means either an ordo or a baddie - no thoughts about possible giftedness. Like "if you don't (at least pretend to) believe I'm innocent I will have to lynch you, so better believe it!" Sorry, this is unclear. I just can't put it any better.

That's a totally different matter. You don't get a bit of foundational knowledge by speculating.
I still think Fea's reasons as to why we should talk about the possible roles are bad. The last one (about the chance of slipping) wasn't as bad as the earlier ones, but even it looked more like she had just come up with it suddenly after running out of other reasons. I doubt very much anyone would slip anything, and therefore all rule talk seems to me more like a futile thing to do.
I'm not saying you couldn't do it, I just don't see the sense in it.
I remember once asking a player if she encouraged speculating and trying to get into some conclusion because she was afraid of slipping something she shouldn't have known and therefore wanted some public agreement about how things most likely could be. It came to my mind now.

The tone of this post is somewhat accusing, as if Rikae tried to indicate she had caught me slipping something. Dunno - too surprised-sounding to sound honest. Overreacting to a comment. (For the record, it was the sentence where I said we couldn't know if the baddies had both a team and lovers.)

You know, it sounds a bit like you were implying that speculating about rules instead of people is more significant when trying to pester out the baddies and their lovers, which is certainly not the case.

You're really too keen on that rule discussion now.

Actually I think Fea could be a lover or something - the way she stubbornly sets out to defend the pros of rule discussion is odd, and especially taken to such lengths, it doesn't sound entirely honest.

I agree she's being somewhat too nice.

What you refrained from saying when replying to Mac actually says: "I'm being too nice and try not to make any enemies, not even Agan!"
Lommy is really too tra-la-la-ley, happy and nice.

So now if I had to make a list of people who have posted enough to catch my attention in a negative way thus far, it'd consist of Mac, Rikae, Lommy and Fea.

edit: xed with Kit, Lom, Leg & Nog

Be at peace, daddy, I suspected as much. ;) Nice to see you around. :D


edit: xed with Agan

I remember that, rather funny.

I don't know about the others, but your posts haven't helped me.

Then the problem is certainly with you, not me. ;)
The point was that in my opinion there weren't enough differences in helpfulness between me and Legate's posts at that point to justify Groin's entirely different treatment of us. It had me wondering if he was trying to get a strong ally in Legate.

And what actually were your reasons to call me jumpy, my dear Madam/Sir? ;)

Now I know what's wrong with me. I've been wolf in the past two games, and I last played as innocent in early June. So small wonder if I have problems accustoming myself to really hunting wolves. I mean, I do pay attention to suspicious things people say, but I don't go as far as to start really suspecting them. I'm not thinking about who's a wolf, I'm just commenting everything that people say... Not good. Maybe I should let Greenie back here now and go re-wire my brain meanwhile...

Well technically it's possible they're both baddies, if there are just lover pairs who don't know of one another.

Someone should be reeeally careful now... After all, we know how easily Lommy is seduced by saying silly! ;)

edit: xed with Lommy

Possible, of course, but I feel better about Mac than I do about Rikae, but don't think I'd discounted the fact they could both be up to no good. ;)

You post often, make long posts, were swift to accuse and are quick to defend yourself. You're also out for lots blood and seem very excited about the game (not that blame you;)). That is my idea of jumpy.

PS, I'm male.

I am not feeling anything especially strange about Rikae, and I have not been paying much attention to their exchanges (rather because I am really not the one for deep analysis of these exchanges), but Mac at least seemed weird to me from the beginning, and I have him marked as one to eventually vote for.

Yes, actually, this is true, too. Too unconflicting, and as I recall her from the last game, there is perhaps something similar in there. And she seems to be more... reserved to talk about various topics, keeping just out of the main spotlight, while still contributing enough to be noticed.

Depends for whom...

EDIT: x-ed since the Gollum I quoted

Bah, give me any topic and I'll talk about it. ;)

My idea of jumpy means quickly defending oneself against the smallest of suspicions and therefore I don't consider myself more jumpy than I usually am. Posting much and being accusatory, on the other hand, aren't a part of that idea.

And yeah I like blood. Downer blood is especially tasty.

edit: xed with Legate & Lommy

++*
Lommy

+
Legate ~ something's wrong there
Sally
Eonwe ~ another one who's being too nice
Brinniel ~ has talked exclusively about the rules so far
Groin ~ gives me a bad feeling

o
Kitanna ~ always have a hard time reading her
Gollum ~ no idea
Lily ~ one post, and that was a list - easy way to appear involved
Lalaith ~ no idea

-
Aganzir ~ too argumentative to be a wolf, methinks
Nogrod ~ no alarms yet, which is alarming
Rikae ~ accuses and defends me, which is what innocent Rikaes tend to do, but evil Rikaes might as well

--
Fea ~ strikes me very innocent

?
Shasta, Gwath, McCaber, Eomer ~ these fellows really better show up. This large number of silent ones is especially worrying since we are lacking modkill.


It's nice that we have so many baddies in this village (well, presumably): I can call six people suspicious without having to worry about who of them I'm necessarily wrong about. :D

(*edit: no, this was no vote - sorry about the stupid formatting)

That's actually a good point, too, and I noticed it too. (Great. Now I seem like doing nothing but quoting Agan and agreeing with her, but she simply says things which make sense now. This is also why I am inclined to trust her: she probably would not have made such an effort had she not had the best intentions of the village in her mind. Well, of course she could have just her own best intentions, which include helping to get rid of other lover pairs... or she is simply bored and has lots of time...) Anyway, trying to "jump on the train" of me would fit well with a Guilty Groin, and I am inclined to think about it as of a likely possibility. Still though, for example Mac I suspect more strongly than him (or, have more grounds for it).

Really? ;) Okay, you said it yourself, sweetheart...

Or just a bold wolf?
She seems very - dare I say it?- phantom-ish (in her own little way) to me this game. I don't know whether that's good or bad thing.

And now your defending her too, but not obviously so. Hmmm... The plot thickens

I'm a bit surprised by how much people have been able to chat. Far as I can see, we know nothing, and it's deliberate. We're not supposed to know anything; we're supposed to grope blindly in the dark, providing delicious entertainment for the mod in the process. Well, I'm not falling for that yet. I presume only that there are villains. It's probable that some will stay quiet and some will be very involved in discussion, trying to determine, in public to greater the acclaim, the nature of the game.

Whether you're doing that by reference to the last game, I'm not sure. I would say that it's dangerous to let the past game affect your appraisal overly. I'd say that there's been far too much talk over little not to have some active villains, acting the wise.

Well, I'm all for a bit more substance. So:

++Rikae

Have at it. :smokin:


Edit: crossed with Mac, who has seemingly got the first vote in. Curse him, stealing my thunder...

I have to hurry and vote. I stand by my suspicions of Rikae. I don't like her "joke" accusation toward Mac, seeing as she admitted it wasn't necessarily an entire joke. I feel bad about her.

++Rikae

I find the talk around Agan and Agan herself. But I'm not sure I find anything overly suspicious about here. I probably won't be back, though I'll try, but I've voted now just in case.

Edit: I see Eomer beat me to the Rikae vote...jerk :P

No! yet again you beat me to it! Stealing my thunder.

Now I will stay longer and see if anything makes me change my mind.

edit: x-ed with Kitanna- another person stealing my Rikae vote. Grrr!:p

I don't like silent players either, but in this game they are less worrying, probably, than in normal games because in this game all baddies are linked with another baddie. So even if one flies under radar his/her lover could still cop it.
Unless of course we have a pair of silent lovers.

I can't tell if Mac's post contains an actual vote or not. Mac, if it is a vote, please clarify. If it isn't, I shall slap you for your formatting.

Don't worry - you can't help it that I'm so darn smart.

Ooh Eönwë I love you! Let's get married!

I've got to vote in about two hours if I don't want to wake up hours earlier than I otherwise should (which I don't). I think I'd prefer voting Mac over Rikae but since Rikae already has votes, I'm maybe a bit more inclined to add there one more.

Anyway, now I need something to eat, and I should probably also do some school things. Maybe. But I'll stay online anyway so I'm not entirely gone.

edit: xed with Lal and The Honourable Corpse

Ai! Sorry. No, that was no vote... it's not on the same line and the "++" is not bolded. :rolleyes:

I would not worry about that. Except for the last alternative (in which case however, I'd call them cowards not worthy of winning), given that there'll be probably lots of nightly kills, even the silent players may meet their ends. And still, this village is relatively big, so not that much need to worry about silent players for right now (although of course we may slowly extend the pressure on them, but that will, I think, come naturally as the numbers of players will be lowering).

I am keeping my eye on the silent Nogrod, though. Horrible! Such an irresponsibility! How comes he does not find any time to post? A few almost one-liners? Now come on! That's too much! Such people should not even play! :p

I am not quite comfortable with the idea of everybody voting Rikae suddenly, as I am more inclined to think that Mac is the evil one here (if not both, of course). I just hope there will be more people to vote for Mac as well, as he is No.1 for me toDay.

EDIT: x-ed since Lalaith

Hmm, I'd suggest you use asterisks or something rather next time. That confused me, too (and seemingly lots of others). The symbol of two pluses is already taken... (hey, then what about using three or such?)

It is perfectly normal for her to mix seriousness with joking. Even though I was at the receiving end of this suspicion, I really didn't see it suspicious in turn at all.

I really don't like this sudden rush of Rikae-votes. Aganzir's pondering to add more fuel to the waggon does not sit right with me.

You guys keep posting such a lot that it takes time to catch you up... But I'm there now... at this minute. Just a moment... :p

I'm not comfortable with the general focus of suspicions at the moment (almost exclusively me, Rikae, Aganzir, and Lommy). Too many people got by without anybody noticing. Please, have a closer look at things each of you. There's an incredible number of submarines right now.

I don't quite understand why Rikae given those two votes. Perhaps I was not paying attention. I cannot think of anyone who would bear a great deal of watching at the present; we have so little evidence to build suspicions off of.

Indeed. Let's lynch you instead. ;)

What do you think I was trying to do all the evening :D

Okay, point taken. I am going to re-evaluate everything, though still, of course people are voting for those for whom they have most grounds... or who are easy to lynch by starting/jumping on a bandwaggon :rolleyes: (like we just saw...)

This post was about to be a vote-post, but for some reason I just had a sudden feeling that I shouldn't vote Rikae.
I'll wait and see what she has to say for herself (if it's in the next 45 minutes).

Let's see... How about electromagnetic wave equations? :p

Now that is a scary thought. I don't like the number of silent ones, either - but I'll live in hope that they get the chance to contribute still toDay even though I didn't see it until tomorrow.

Which brought to my mind... I want to go to sleep pretty soon, which means I should vote pretty soon, which means I'm in trouble since I'm having my traditional Day 1 "Oh no I don't suspect anyone" crisis. :rolleyes:

Then, some other random stuff that crossed my mind while I read..

1) Legate and Agan bring up good points about Groin; I didn't really pay attention to the matter before, but now that I reread the post it does seem weird. This is something I should think about a little more.

2) I don't know what to think of this sudden cross-post flood of Rikae votes. Granted, she has been a bit strange - but still, what, something like four Rikae-votes or semi-votes just suddenly appearing all at once? It's plain weird.

3)I agree that sticking to the rule discussion is a bit odd, but I wouldn't be so hasty as to call it suspicious. After all, in the early phases of the game, it's as good a topic as any, and if it gets people to talk then I don't see the harm in it. It's a way to get some discussion going similarly as joking and banter is, though it isn't as entertaining ( :rolleyes: ). I don't really think much can be derived from Fea's excessive rule discussion thing.

Like I said I am not yet decided on who to vote. I think I'll read some bits again and come back (hopefully) with some ideas and a vote.


EDIT: x-ed OH MY GOSH with everyone since Agan's post number 103...

This comment of Mac's doesn't sit right with me and makes me more inclined to vote for him instead. It's wolfish.
However, you can see my points against Rikae (added to a general bad feeling) in some earlier post I won't bother to find for you myself now.

I don't know about Eomer but at least in my opinion Kitanna had valid reasons.

As for submarines, have we all Europeans forgotten that only a bit more than a half of the first day has passed? They have well time to appear although most of us might not be around then.

edit: xed with Legate, Eönwë & Greenie

In the earlier game there were four independent pairs of lovers (werecats, werebirds etc...). In one game - possibly it was the Hoy Brasil - there were wolves as normal but they all had secret lovers behind the others' backs (so in the end all the wolves were playing for themselves even if they posed as friends to each other).

We have a host of possibilities then.

But one thing we should remember is that whatever the case this is a lovers game and in those two are always interconnected. So more than normal, the lovers will defend each other if it looks like it the other one is going to get lynched.

So far I have seen Kitanna defend Mac twice. Mac has been under pressure and Kitanna has really not stated any more elaborated reasons for her backing of him.

Other defendings have been more vague up till now, but I need to look at it again.

And I have some other suggestions as well but I'll post this first not to write a novel out of this first one.

Yes, I'm used to being in the second half of the game, once all the main stuff of the day has happened and I'm reading over it. It seems strange now that I'm only in the first half.

Alas, so true.

There was one thing I forgot to mention in my last post. About Lommy's list, then. I'm too lazy to look for it again, but I noticed that at almost every single point there was some kind of "seems a bit suspicious because of xxxxx, but then feels quite OK and it's silly to draw conclusions at this phase". I know we can't be sure of anything at this phase, but the way she has to emphasise it so often in order to sort of soften her points seems a bit exaggerated.

I'll vote soon because I want to go to sleep. No idea who to vote, though. I will definitely not vote Rikae - I don't find her particularly suspicious and besides I don't like it when there is but one person who is being voted. It's nothing to encourage discussion other than "Oh my, a bandwaggon!" and is the perfect spot for baddies to slip away unnoticed.


EDIT: x-ed withNoggins and Eönwë

I assure you with all seriousness and all understanding of the implications of the statement: if I was going to slip something, I'd do it on purpose.

What in the world makes you think I want to be honest?

And here I thought that we were supposed to be excited about the number of bad guys, what with it meaning that our suspicions can exist with impunity. :rolleyes:

Gracias, m'dear. I know I for one have been in classes or at work for the better part of the past ten hours. But after that I'm basically free until I go to bed a couple hours before deadline. This is possibly the most convenient deadline period I've ever played in: I'm actually around for most of the second half of the day.

Sorry, stupid question: Lovers know each others' identities, right? They're not fumbling in the dark hoping they don't accidentally kill their counterpart?

Unnecessarily getting yourself provoked, I'd think... though of course nothing against your intentions to vote Mac.

Okay, now I will once again sound like repeating something, but I have thought of that too. I was not only sure if it is not just me making up things. Apparently I am not the only one to whom that idea occured: that Kitanna's choice to go after Rikae (and to vote her, especially timed so, when the option to vote either Rikae or Mac was hanging in the air for some people) and her comments about Mac seeming innocent which are not bringing him into that much spotlight but defending him still, can be more than just sideway comments. One more reason to lynch Mac, to find out if she by chance does not die, too... (now I must be sounding rather nasty, but that's the way it goes.)

EDIT: x-ed since the Nog I quoted