"For a couple o' pins," says Troll, and grins,
"I'll eat thee Wizers, and gnaw thy shins.
A bit o' fresh meat will go down sweet!
I'll try my teeth on thee now.
Hee now! See now!
I'm tired o' gnawing old bones and skins;
I've a mind to dine on thee Wizer now."

Two pages of banter... I'm not sure if I'm feeling nostalgic for the good ole times or just remembering why it was soo annoying back then with the huge games when there was much to read but little to chew... :rolleyes:

I don't basically like any of the votes given as yet, if that is any starter. They all look like people wished to justify their votes a bit too much comparing to the little or non-existent evidence there was at the time of their votes.

But even there - and knowing Gil's history - I need to pick out this for the most awkward one of them:
An "attempt"? An "understandable attempt" when it is is "the hardest" Day to get someone lynched? I mean, yes it might be a language issue, but to me an attempt sounds like something you do when you know what you are doing / aiming at... And then, after saying he thinks Nerwen has been "the most substantial" poster today, he goes to vote her as well because he doesn't want to spread the vote...

I hate to be able only to put forth these two slight remarks, but I just read this through in a hurry and have a lots of work to do. I will be back later with hopefully something better later toDay (I will be back).


EDIT: X'd with the last few...

I suppose so Ner, what said is said. Looking back, no matter what I say or don't say draws debate but that is the heart of this game. I hope others post more to get this rolling. The tension is killing me.

If only three out of 19 have been voted and there are 15 votes to go saying that you need to keep sure the votes are not spread too wide isn't the most reasonable cause for a vote.

Then again, bringing on some pressure by exactly giving a second vote to someone that early could be reasonable tactics to see whether the dog barks the stick hits...

My stomach is growling for some man-flesh, but since we ain't yet decided which of us is made of man-flesh, I'll go fix myself a sammich and finish reading through all yer kerfluffle when I have a full stomach. Well, less empty anyway.

Yeah, but he seems to have thought of that one pretty belatedly.

And then there's this-
What does all that even mean, Gil? I really can't make head nor tail of it- but there are phrases in there I find rather... interesting...

I think you're looking more defensive at the moment than Nerwen. Having said that, I'd say you're also the one that many seem to want to jump after and pile on right now...hence the defensiveness.

Partially stirred by you though, with how you're the typical red-shirt, and then assuming everything you say is now getting turned against to. I honestly laughed at your redshirt comment for nostalgia reasons. Maybe I just think myself more ancient than the most, but I would guess I'm one of the few who would remember your 'style'...it's been a long time for sure. It's just making you look not only defensive but paranoid.

Currently, I'm thinking you've been acting a very clumsy troll and it's been such a long time since you've graced us with your WW-presense, I'm interpretting some of this piling on against you as wizards licking their chops at the offerend redshirt. However, I think you're looking in the wrong place with Nerwen (ie you can interpret this as if it comes between voting you or Nerwen, I will vote you).

Allright, reading through last few hours I'm more and more concerned about this whole"Gil voting Nerwen" thingy. Gil's reasons seemed fishy from the start, especially so soon during the day, while there's obviously much more to come, and Gil isn't leaving our company just yet. Unless he would try just to make things move at last. That I find unlikely though.

Nerwen is now barking, and understandably so. I can't say I am completely sure about her, but as somebody said, right now I can trust only myself. In the end I must agree with Bore (post #86), I'm inclining to vote rather Gil than Nerve, if it comes to choosing between them.

Last thought. Am I the only one, who finds Volo's last post odd?

He started that immediately, though- "so it begins", etc. And of course, even before he voted, there was the "red-shirt" routine. I just feel the martyrdom is being a bit overplayed.
edit:x'd with Ozban.

It's bizarre, but I think it's just IC and reflections on players' styles. However, what are your thoughts on it, Oz?

With my time very limited during the final hours (I am typing this between classes) I wanted to stimulate the voting by trying a tactic, and Ner being the most vocal of the votee's I wanted to flesh out her defense. It is hard for me and frustrating to explain then get asked to explain that and so forth. Do I think Ner is going to get lynched? Probably not. With everyone piling on me, I need to point out Bor's comment. My gameplay is insanity. I stir the pot to get things going that typically runs my own downfall, but allows me to judge others. I will attempt to get on moments before the deadline to see the outcome. It has been a long time since I have done this game and by trying to stir the pot I have given everyone an easy vote for day 1. So vote Gil for being Gil, or surprise me and humour my insanity.

I hope I don't get asked to explain this again, I really don't know what to say. Maybe it is my thought process or how I talk but it always turns against me.

Gil I really don't like your last post, I understand your Insanity idea and I wouldn't discard it as valid strategy, but I don't doubt it might easily get you killed. Madmen are loved in other, real worlds, but not when our trollskins are at stake. And still I can not but to consider you trying to stir us as a Wizzer, hoping that we'll indulge you, for everyone likes to play mad-like at times. Don't take my honesty bad, but my view of you growing ever grim.

As for that, I reread it several times and I'm actually begin' to think it's fine. Odd, yes. Bizzare, but probably just IC. My first worries were about the latter part of that post and Volo perhaps 'playing' turncloak, but it doesn't really seem likely, especially when I consider other IC posts all of us have thrown in.

First round of impressions, I'll be around now for about an hour and then will go to a dance class that ends so close to the deadline I'd rather cast my vote before that.

Things That Have Happened:
Nerwen vs Gil-galad. I'm not inclined to think either of them Wizers based on this dispute. Ner jumps, but reasonably, not only because of a vote for her but because of a very strangely cast vote. And despite saying that, as well as the fact that some of Gil's explanations do indeed seem forged (coming way after the vote and slowly developing more and more elaborate), the paranoia seems more like something a typical first-day-lynch innocent would be like, rather than a Wizard. It is creating discussion and pulling attention towards him. For that, and for the sake of him, after all, being a typical first-day lynch, I'd be willing to give him a pass for the day.

Cop and his vote for Boro seems worse to me than either of the two above. He has to vote early, which is understandable, but basing a vote on two IC posts and saying it's not random feels weird. Boro can be a very strong player, and in case he's innocent getting rid of him early in the game when he hasn't had time to contribute much would seem like a reasonable thing for a Wizard to do. Then again, it is hardly starting a bandwagon, because of the total lack of evidence. But he could've been trusting that people (like Gil) would rather vote for someone who already has a vote, than someone who doesn't?

These are the first two things to come in mind. Will keep reading.

Some interesting interaction between Gil and Nerwen. Gil seems jumpy, and Nerwen seems a bit... controlled? Restrained? But that's in the normal zone for both of them, so I wouldn't like to vote for either toDay.

I see nothing suspicious about Boro at this point, and Morsul's point about Kath looks honest, but far fetched. What else? Volo's post, odd? Volo is odd.

Right now my unease about Copper is the strongest thing I have to go on, but I don't need to vote just yet.

Some was exaggerated in jest, like my comment on Nerwen. Some was more serious, like Kath. It depends on the context of the posts I was commenting on. Remember, I only had like 20 posts to go on at that stage.

Right now I like CM the least for spinning out two early IC posts into a vote and totally ignoring all the other bits of IC from everyone else.

EDIT: X'd with Pom and Rikae. Great minds thinking alike?

Vaguely confused about Nog citing a wrong number of Wizards in his wee poem-remake. We are dealing with four Wizards, and I'd like to think that Nog would be a person to check the rules before he starts the game, unless he's trying, by the seeming ignorance, to make us think that he must be innocent. Then again, it's hard for me to think that he'd be a player to use such a strategy. Don't know what to think, so I'll just inform: Nog, four Wizards and a cobbler.

I honestly believe a WizGil wouldn't be laying it on so thick toDay, or at least so early. Playing victim is a decent wolf tactic when done correctly, but he's been doing it since the start, which is far too much and far too dangerous for a baddie to do. Perhaps he's a cobbler, perhaps an ordo, but I'd be willing to bet cupcakes on him not being a wolf. It just doesn't look right to me.

Plus, giving him more attention is just going to make things worse, as we'll spend our energies focusing on him instead of the ones we're meant to catch.

Just popping in with two short remarks before (sadly) going back to work for a while yet...

It is interesting how suspicions: going after them and suddenly disregarding them go in a kind of waves. And I do think that is natural, for people tend to notice things others are talking about and disregard things others don't. So from Gil vs. Nerwen we are now going to Copper.

Saying that I'm just stating the obvious anyone can see from the thread: suspicions lead to more suspicions until some say that it is stupid (or suspicious) to suspect only that / those and soon the next target is found, and suspicions feed into more suspicions for the next one.

Which means not defending or suspecting Cop at the moment...


On another note. What my experience tells me, the wolves... erm... the Wizards rarely stir suspicion or try to be controversial on D1. Well, they can do that, but the safest way for them to duck a random execution on D1 is to stay either low or be very agreeable or fun.

So let's also keep an eye on those who hold their horses and only have nice things to say about other players.

EDIT: X'd with Pom & Sally

Pom: thee vs. three? :p

PS. And yes, I kind of think I know "thee" means singular tense, but I didn't remember the word for the plural in that parlance and thought I was in too much a hurry to go and search for the right form...

My gut-feeling of Rikae is good. I had the same of Brin, but her voting post doesn't sit well with me on second reading.

Suspicious behavior = being around and enjoying trolling + trying to find something to say to get the ball rolling? Getting the discussion going with substance is hard on the first Day (as Brin herself states) and Ner's comments on Morsul and Cop seem to me just ways of getting some more substance into the game. Which in general is a good thing, and even though I wouldn't say it makes Ner happily innocent in my eyes, I wouldn't see it as suspicious, more the opposite.

Nog, I can't believe I read that wrong, on both occurrences as well! 'Thee' is the old singular of 'you', nowadays replaced by the latter. So it doesn't work anyway but now it's just poetically incorrect rather than substantially weird ;)

You know what? I will bite on this.

++Coppermirror

for being hasty and suspicion-mongering.

Okay, I think I'll need to go now, so won't have time to search for subtleties in the rest of the posts. I'll need to go with

++Cop

for the reasons stated earlier. Even though I'm not at all fond of Brin's voting post, she was amongst the first to actually try to say something, and I like that, so it will give her a pass for now, since there is someone else that I suspect as well. But I'll be keeping an eye on her.

edit. x/ed with Cab

Agh, now I don't know what to think of Cab! I'd say he's jumping a bandwagon, but he says he crossed with me and Rikae earlier, in which case his suspicions are at least somewhat his own, rather than joining general change of suspicion. And I really need to go. Keep an eye on people going for Cop I'd say.

Is that irony I smell, or is someone cooking bacon?

Coppermirror--> Boro (1)
Morsul--> Kath (1)
Brinn--> Nerwen (1)
Gil--> Nerwen (2)
Cab--> Coppermirror (1)
Pom--> Coppermirror (2)

Let's see, the rules say the first to reach a total in the event of a tie are lynched, I think. At any rate, there's still some time. But what to make of this?

Yes indeed. An odd thing to say.

I agree with you, but I will advocate for the lynching of your right to say it!

Two hours to go in the day and Sally finally thinks to call me and let me know the game's started. :rolleyes:

I'll try and make an informed vote by reading the thread, but no promises. :p

I try to bring out these thoughts in the form they came to me when I was rereading the whole Day chronologically and try not to be swayed by the later trend in reasoning.

First, rereading Kath, her responce in #13 is towards Loslote's #12 (in a OC manner) and not to the rather more substantial question in #9. Since trying to seem as clever as that in the first post, as Kath could be interpreted to do, would be near suicidal, I thought her to be a fellow troll, but not responding to the rather straight forward question in #9 in any way feels ingenuine, and could be intentionally upkeeping a mysterious air. Focusing discussion on such clever-like qualities is bad tact for the troll-guys, but since it has been mentioned before I felt fine with elaborating the talk.

Next over to Morsul in #24. His interpretation seems rather sensible to me, but at such a point saying stuff like rather easily holds the implication that the cobbler-accusant could also be the clever-troll. And bringing attention to that is fishy, or thoughtless.

Further off in the same vein, Nerwen in #64. The reaction is rather cold, and I know that's a vague and rethorical expression, thus more based in the gut.
So is Morsul and his theory about "Wonderful" clutching at straws or his genuine impression and reason to vote? To me it also feels a bit far-fetched, but then again, Day1...
Ok that said, Nerwen's #64 feels understandable and still there's a bit too little reasoning. Yet I'd like to hear more thoughts on the subject, especially from N.

Well, Gil and the now infamous #73. He's got my sympathies, due to past games and some personal similarities. Still, the vote felt like joining a ready case with rather slippery or not clearly expressed reasoning.
Spreading out votes on such colossal Day1 can be just as handy for catching Wizers on later Days. They have a slight group-mind compared to others and will have more power to influence votes on Day1, and using that influence will help us pick out the sources. Of course this happens for the price of Wizers potentially picking the Day1 lynch.

Concerning my own play style and post #72: I wanted to imply with the banter that I would be away for a while due to going to the gym and swimming (lifting rocks and having ears stuffed, haha). Obviously it wouldn't be understood, there's no context what so ever, but I have the fault of liking cryptic humour - much to the bafflement of even my flatmates. I solemnly swear that I'd rather learn to be more clear in my expression and that I am be ok with being asked what I was trying to say.

More thoughts, Gil does feel more like himself when he ought to be suspected, but have the luxury of time to reread and re-evaluate. I would for him to stay with us for longer, obviously if he was lucky enough to be on the troll-side.

I don't like the way Pom and Cab went for Cop at all. Yes, I suspected Cop myself, but this just looks overeager and wrong. I feel like my suspicion made matters too easy for at least one of them. Pom is wishy-washy and self-contradictory: I almost think a wizard might be more careful. As for Cab, I don't know. Would a Cab or Pom wizard throw a fellow under the bus at this early stage? Thing is, I don't like Cab's reasons. I suspected Cop for the classic blunder of "looking helpful", he seems to suspect him for voting early. If you have to vote early, you have to vote early, and the reasons will be thin.

Here at last, sorry for taking this long! Starting my commentary on things said already very early, so bear with me if they're already outdated.

I agree with Volo; that caught my eye as well. These two points especially (the ones quoted above, boobies) looked, at least in my view, like misinterpreting things or overinterpreting them. Speaking about Kath's suspicion of Morsul looks like an exaggeration to me, and the way I interpreted it, Inzil wasn't defending Pom but rather saying that what she had said was reasonable enough but all in all a fairly basic thing to say on Day 1 (in response to Morsul saying she made good points, if I remember correctly). Might be honest mistakes on his part or mine, but I'm also aware that phrasing things in a strong way in a summary is a nice, subtle tool for altering the impression other players have of the posts in question.

I'm not sure about this logic. I can see where he's coming from, but I just don't see it as a strong enough argument for Kath being a Cobbler to justify voting for her over potential Wizers. If that makes sense.

This is a very good point.

Funny, actually; I could see a reason to suspect Nerwen but it's nothing to do with any of these Brinn mentioned. I'm more concerned about the fact that she was bantering happily until someone (was it Brinn?) came along and said she disapproved of the banter; Nerwen's next post was all serious and "Yes, you're right, let's get down to business". It is curious that a player as independent-minded as Nerwen did not stop bantering by herself if she thought it was excessive and that it was time to move on. Then again, I disagree with Brinn's reasons for suspecting her and don't suspect her overall (which I never seem to do, regardless of her role).

Whoa. All I can say is, someone needs to flip-flop now that good ol' Lom is turned to stone. :rolleyes:

This makes a lot of sense and makes me feel better about Boro for no good reason.

Two radically different views on Cop's Boro vote; I disagree with both. No, I don't think Boro is by any means an easy Day 1 lynch; quite the contrary, I very much doubt a Wizer in search of an easy bandwagon target would try Boro, since strong, active, reasonable players seldom get lynched on Day 1 without hard evidence (which Cop obviously didn't have). As for Pom's speculation of Wizers wanting to get rid of an innocent Boro early on - probably, but again, I doubt they'd try to make him into a Day 1 lynch even with decent arguments. They'd know it was unlikely to work.

Why, then, did Cop vote for Boro? She might be telling the truth; gut-feeling based on something the rest of us didn't spot, whether real or imagined. If she is a Wiz, I'd see the Boro-vote as a very safe and easy one: unlikely to start a bandwagon (as Pom pointed out) so not leading to the death of an innocent and thus accusations of bandwagoning. The chance of us hitting a Wizer at this point aren't so high as to force the Wizers to try and steer the lynch so actively; they can lay back and relax as long as it isn't one of them.

Fair point; this part didn't make sense to me, either.

Agreed with this as well. Deciding in advance that you're going to be lynched no matter what is not the most fruitful of attitudes, though, and I still don't quite understand the reason behind the Nerwen-vote. Provoking a reaction, fine, that it certainly did, and it's a good strategy, too; I just don't see you doing it unless you also had some reason to pick Nerwen in particular to be tested.

Also agreeing with this. Definitely not voting Gil toDay unless something drastic happens to change my opinion.

The girl's got some nerve saying this right after voting Cop herself. :p


EDIT: x-ed with Cab, Shaz, Vol and Rick

Pom and Cop... male or female? I am confuse.

Because when CM voted, there were like 6 others who had mostly vague IC postings (including you, I might add), but immediately picked out Boro as the only suspicious and votable one from that group. Hasty and ill-thought.

Well, if the Wizzards do pick DayNight1's lynch, what of it? That's the trouble with a game this large - nobody can ever be certain of someone's identity, unless a Clever Troll speaks up about it. But the price, I feel, if not worth it, per se, is inevitable and we should use it to our advantage. Hunt down those that lead to a mislynch and squash 'em inter jelly, as it were.

That's perfectly fine, then. Just wait 'til I start pulling elaborately mixed metaphors out of thin air. ;)

EDIT: x'd with Rick and Cab

I see where you're coming from. I suspect Cop for two reasons - for the helpfulness thing you pointed out and for her Boro vote. Not because she voted early (I do know a bit about that myself) but because it struck me as an easy vote; a throwaway, if you like. Then again, the general suspicion against Cop almost makes me feel better about her, not worse; like you said, Pom and Cab both looked a tad opportunistic. Cab perhaps more so since Pom had to leave and I can see the Cop thing being the strongest suspicion she had. Cab, however, seems to be still around, which makes me wonder why he voted already then.

EDIT: x-ed with Rick, Cab, and Bane

True; but what bothers me most is that she didn't even vote for him because of banter or not posting substance, she voted him on "gut-feeling" when there was hardly anything to base that feeling on. I just don't see that as a genuine vote.

Still, the more she is suspected, the more reluctant I am to suspect her too. I can totally see her as the easy Day 1 lynch we talk ourselves into and curse afterwards.

I had suspicions and didn't feel like waiting until the last 10 minutes of the Night to get them hashed out. I don't like last-minute surprises.

EDIT: X'd with LG

But then Pom warns us to be suspicious of people voting for Cop, which includes Pom. Don't you find that to be a bit incongruous?

Edit: x'd with Cab

Fair enough - although unless I'm mistaken, it's still over an hour until deadline. For myself, I'm seldom so sure on Day 1 that I'd feel ready to make a decision with that long still to go (provided that I was around until DL, anyway), especially since quite a lot tends to happen during the last two hours.
I do, as I briefly pointed out in my long post; seriously though, I very much doubt she did that without knowing exactly how incongruous it would sound. It is probably to be disregarded if she was joking; it is more than a bit hypocritical if she was serious, but I'm not sure what that points to, if anything.

Hm, never played with Bane before.

Which is exactly what a comfortable wizard watching innocents lynch innocents would be thinking. :smokin:

Greenie is being very agreeable. It does not become an ordinary troll to be agreeable.

Actually scratch that, Greenie is picking on Cab a bit. Makes me feel better about her, maybe.