So....how do you think the death of Sauron should go? Visuals? sounds? (That shaking vibration from the lower register tones might work well! ex.-*the door opening at bag end when Gandalf enters, the trolls opening the black gates*) Hmmmm can't wait to see it!

I think Sauron's death should just be the same as how he 'died' at the Battle of the Last Alliance. That was a perfect scene.

i argee with liriodendron and meela. i think thats sauron's death should be more focused on so that it can make a great impact to the audience. im so thrilled to watch the movie!!! <p>[ June 27, 2003: Message edited by: barandilwen ]

I don't really think that Sauron is shown as a huge threat. It seems as though Saruman is more powerful now, and more worth focusing on. Like, Sauron is only the Dark Lord... oh no, not a big threat at all! I don't think he has been shown enough, especially as the main source of evil. Do you all get the same impression?

Yup, I definitely do. It's almost as if Sauron is just this huge, comic flaming eyeball out to take over the world like Dr. Evil, and Saruman is the actual, intelligent villain, when it's actually the other way around. Sauron is far more intelligent than Saruman could ever be.

I agree as well. That's why I think Sauron will be a big part of RotK from a very early stage and Saruman will also be killed off early in the film. Saruman has been the main villian for two films but it is time for him to make room for the big guy.<P>H.C.

I wish PJ would put in the Scouring of the Shire sooo bad but he has to cut it out because there's not enough time! I wonder why that is!! anyway I also wish PJ did the Eowyn Merry Ringwraith part good!! And the battle part good! And well I just hope he didn't screw it up and make all these other parts that aren't in the book!!!! If it's not in the book don't put it in the movie!!geez!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I wish PJ would put in the Scouring of the Shire sooo bad but he has to cut it out because there's not enough time! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It is not just because there is insufficient time. The climax of the film will be reached with the Ring being thrown into Mount Doom and the defeat of Sauron, thus releasing the tension built up throughout most of the film. We will then have the happy scene of Aragorn's coronation and his marriage to Arwen and the bittersweet resolution of Frodo's Quest at the Grey Havens. To intersperse these scenes with another tension raising scene involving the Hobbits fighting for their Shire, while fine in the book (and it is one of my favourite chapters too), would not work well in film terms.

I <B>REALLY</B> want to see Gandalf confront Saruman. That was my favorite part of TTT and they left it out of the movie. It made me so mad! <P>Also, I would really like to see Gollum's betrayal of Sam and Frodo to Shelob done well.

I cannot fathom how they plan to fit the entire last 1/4 of the Two Towers while still fitting in the plot of Return of the King into 3 short hours and satisfying die hard fans like myself. However I have no doubt that Peter Jackson will be able to accomplish such a task. <P>For my part, I anticipate a very well-done interpretation of the confrontation between Gandalf and Saruman. In fact, anything less than an epic rendition of this scene would be a disappointment to me, as the Voice of Saruman is one of the best chapters in the Two Towers. I would also like to see an excellent portrayal of the battle outside the Black Gates, and the Grey Havens will be, I'm sure, a tear-jerker. <P>I can't wait for the Special Edition of the Two Towers, or the Special edition of Return of the King, which I am sure will be the longest because of the vast extent of the material that (sadly) must surely be left out to make Rotk a consumer-friendly 3-hour film.

i think they aren't going to be able to fit the ttt and rotk in three hours... i agree with everyone who thinks the same way as i do!!!! yipeee!!!!

Pellenor fields and Shelob. They are so cool. I like big battles anyway. Ohw let's not forget at the gate of Mordor. What was it's name again? I lost it.<P>A question: Lossie tolled me that they are going to leave out the scorging of the Shire. Please tell me they are not.<P>Abedithon le,<P>Anuion

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Lossie tolled me that they are going to leave out the scorging of the Shire. Please tell me they are not.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sorry to disppoint you, Helka, but they are. Jackson has, I think, confirmed this in a number of interviews.

Yes, & I think Wormtounge slitting Saruman's throat & throwing him out of a window, or off the top of Orthanc, at Isengard simply confirmed it further...

From what I've heard, Scouring was never filmed so it won't even be in the SE DVD.

Well, it would be great if we could see an intense scene when Sam takes the ring

Darn, that is such a shame Sauce. But now it makes no sence and Sam's gift is worth scrap. There won't even be a Hobbit Battle. I was so looking forward to that. I think Maika was too, Hobbits dying . <P>It's a damn shame anyway. Now you can't see how desperate Saruman was in his search for control. It's a real shame. It's one of the greatest battles of the Periannath, and they just whipe it out. Bet they are going to focuse more on Gondor and stuff. Ohw well, they can't take Pellenor fields away from us no do they? <P>Abedithon le

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>...the gate of Mordor.What was it's name again? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>it's Morannon<P>i was so disappointed when sam got a rope from galadriel not a nice little box at all?<BR>the kingly look of aragorn shoul be well done...not like in RotK calendar <A HREF="http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/rotk_calendar/aragorn_january.jpg" TARGET=_blank>(see here)</A> but like in the teaser poster <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=002157" TARGET=_blank>(see here)</A>!<p>[ July 01, 2003: Message edited by: dancing spawn of ungoliant ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Now you can't see how desperate Saruman was in his search for control. It's a real shame. It's one of the greatest battles of the Periannath, and they just whipe it out. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah, it really is a shame. But I think that they've already put too much focus on Saruman already, and not enough on Sauron. I wish PJ would make the Scouring of the Shire for us Tolkien fans and put it on that really special DVD thing that's coming out in 2005 or something.

This thread is depressing me! I think we should all remember that this is not a movie of the book"s". It's a MOVIE VERSION of the book"s". <P>Someday, true fans will get together and make a movie directly from the book, without interpretation, enhancement, ect. Then we can expose deaf children who haven't learned to read to Tolkien, and enjoy the perfect film!

There will probably never a be a 'specila film' in 2005. On a website PJ has been quoted for saying stuff about how buying the extended versions of each film will be a good investment because there won't be another film to upstage the extendeds. Sorry.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Gollum better bite off Frodo's finger/Ring and fall into Mt. Doom. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree with you.....I'll be sooooo dissapointed if it isn't done in a "proper" way in ROTK <P>I also think they'd better have The Grey Havens just the way I imagened it, or else.......I'll be....dissapointed too..... <P>And of course when they return to the Shire, Sam when he says; "Well I'm back," or something like that. I think that has to be the last line in the movie.

They're going to end RotK 'properly'. Don't worry about that...

They'd better be, "Well I'm back" Almost made me cry.

Helka: I'm sure at least that there's a scene with sAm & a little hobbit-child jumping into his arms ( presumably the 'I'm back' scene ).

Yeh, there are scenes with Elanor. She's really cute. I can't wait to see her on screen. A little Sean Astin-a-like staring back at us.

I've never gotten a pic of Elanor's face. Just a kind've blurry picture of the aformentioned.

I'm looking forward to the Passing of the Grey Company (aka The Paths of the Dead Part) I think PJ will come up with something better than the zombies in Dead Alive (not that theres anything wrong with that movie) <P>THe Grey Havens<P>Shelob's Lair-I want Shelob to be the most terrifying thing in middle earth (its a shame she gets slain by some little twerp like samwise gamgee) <P>The Cracks of Doom, specifically when Frodo puts on the ring and when Gollum bites his finger off ("NAsty little hobbits' tastes good") <P>Aragorn revealling himself to Sauron via the Palantiri<P>The battle sequences<P>The Watchers<P>Things i'd like to see but probably won't happen so PJ can give screen time to liv freaking tyler (yes i'm very bitter about her entire existence ) :<P>I think its a royal tragedy that they won't do the Scouring of the Shire, it has Saruman's best lines and its a perfect ending. <P>As little Arwen as possible <P>Frodo, Sam and Gollum walking by Minas Morgul and seeing the Witch King's army depart <P>Shagrat and Gorbag arguing/fighting faithful to the book

I would exchange her for the scourging anytime. Why does PJ places Arwen in the story so much. The only thing she does in the book is talk to Aragorn. She is being made some kind of superhero, while she did very little. I don't understand that. They could have made the battle at helm's deep bigger if they left out that stupid dream.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Why does PJ place Arwen in the story so much <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>because if there weren't those 'annoying' Arwen- scenes the character wouldn't work. every person who hasn't read LotR wouldn't understand who the heck that mysterious elf is.<BR>but i have to agree with you that the 'dream- scene' was stupid!

A question to all those who dislike Arwen's role in the films: Do you think that she should be included in the trilogy (of films) at all?<P>If not, fine. Although her absence would, in my view, have robbed Aragorn of a big part of his motivation, made his resistance of Eowyn's charms seem rather strange, and disappointed audiences (I think) that he ends up on his own at the end.<P>If, on the other hand, Arwen is to take her rightful place in the films as the love of Aragorn's life and, ultimately, his bride, her expanded role makes a lot of sense. It would seem very strange to audiences who haven't read the books if the big finale in the third film involved Aragorn marrying some woman who they had only seen for a brief time in the first film (at Rivendell), if indeed they remembered her at all.<P>So, given that Aragorn's coronation and his marriage to Arwen is (as I understand it) going to form part of the joyful tension release scenes following the defeat of Sauron (prior to the bittersweet parting at the Grey Havens), it makes sense to me that Arwen be given greater involvement in the events portrayed throughout the three films.<BR>I therefore have little problem with her role in the two films so far (although I agree that the dream sequence was a little gratuitous, at least in the way that it was done, and I am very glad that they chose to drop Arwen from Helm's Deep).<P>One further question - why is film Arwen always being described on this site as a shieldmaiden? As far as I can see, the only vaguely "shieldmaiden-ish" thing that she has done so far is to ride to the Ford with Frodo and defy the Nazgul. Which, there being no swordplay or shields in sight, hardly qualifies her in my view as a shieldmaiden. Of course, she will undoubtedly qualify for the title if she turns up at Pelennor Fields - but let's hope that doesn't happen.

Tolkien will turn in his grave if Arwen is on Pellonor fields. No elves are on the field, so neither is Arwen. They could have just placed the bridge scene with arwen and aragorn in lotr and make viggo explain something more about Arwen in ttt. They did no have to take 15 minutes for that. All good battle time. *pouts*<P>Abedithon le

I think Arwen should have been included.<BR>It was necessary to play up to the audience and introduce a little romance in order to refrain from it being an all-boys action battle film. It makes a better experience all round if it includes every genre.<BR>The shieldmaiden thing I do not approve of. Arwen is a great character who's role could easily be expanded, but only in the right way, ie. as a romance side story. To make her a warrior is not right, and even further from the books. Liv Tyler said herself that she didn't like the way Arwen was turning out at first, apparently. I'm not entirely certain how that was, but my head is telling me it was too warrior-like, and Liv agreed that Arwen should be less warrior-like. I don't know. I'll leave it...

I would rather not have Arwen at all, if people are too lazy or shallow to read the books then why should we have to suffer for their stupidity, laziness and mediocrity? I couldn't care less about a love story, if thats what i wanted to see i'd watch some stupid romance movie. Damnit when I go to watch LOTR io go to see huge battles, elves, dwarves, epic struggles not some contrived generic romance story. If they had left it to that scene on the bridge in Rivendell i would be relatively fine, but that ridiculous dream sequence really ****es me off. <P>and i really hope there are no elves in the Pelannor Fields battle, though i would make an exception if Arwen were to be slain and slaughtered .

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I would rather not have Arwen at all, if people are too lazy or shallow to read the books then why should we have to suffer for their stupidity, laziness and mediocrity? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, you are right of course. Why should Jackson have bothered to make the films appealing to those who have not read the books ... er, apart from the fact that there would then have been no films. Good thing or bad thing? You decide. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> and i really hope there are no elves in the Pelannor Fields battle <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I rather hope that Legolas will be there.

The Grey Havens. Definitely. <BR>There are parts that seem like they might be more important. I would, for instance, like to see a believeable Shelob and a sickeningly beautiful wedding. But the ending is what sticks with you. The last scene of the LotR trilogy is quiet and sad, but grand in it's own way. The realisation of a mission accomplished and a world on it's way to restoration, but also the parting of what may well be the two most renowned friends in literary history. <BR>It's like a recital, you might mess up pretty bad halfway through, but if you nail the grand finale, that's all they'll ever remember.

I hope the Mouth of Sauron gets to have his speech like it was in the book. "It needs more to make a king than a piece of elvish glass, or a rabble such as this Why? any brigand of the hills can show as good a following!"

The movies weren't there just for the amusement of people who hadn't read the books. I knwo I cannot talk because I haven't read the books properly, but I can understand why there has to be a certain degree of alteration from the books to allow for a movie that appeals to all audiences. Those who have read the books see the bulk of what they have read put into visualisation, as well as allowing them to see the story in a new light perhaps, and those who haven't read the books learn about a whole new story. And to gain a full audience there has to be a certain amount of each genre or whatever as well. The movies have to appeal to everyone. If they concentrated on satisfying those who read the books, only a small number of people would truly enjoy the film and fully understand it. Perhaps some parts would have confused those who did not already know the story, which is why the film cuts it all down to a minimum.

I know they'll at least have the Mouth of Sauron, although I can't promise that exact speech...

Yup, that's guaranteed. I can't wait for the scene at the Grey Havens at the end of the movie. When I read it in the book, I was crying because it was the end and because it was so beautiful. I hope it's like that in the movie. I have a feeling that Tolkien fans everywhere will probably end up bawling our eyes out that day just because it's the end!