I'm open to guarding Mnemo because then we can see if her early plan for the gifteds to come out is furry or not. She might get my vote seeing as there is not really a person who I believe needs protecting toNight.

Thanks dear! :Merisu:

*shrug* Me neither, really.

Nog, I love you and your brainy brain. Heh. That is all. :)


EDIT: x'd since Nog

Also, keep in mind with this guarding thing, even if we guard Outstanding Citizen X, the wolves will still get two kills, just not the two they might have preferred. So don't necessarily think only about who you think would be killed, but also who you would like to keep around, whether you think they'd be attacked or not. (Aka guard me!!!!! I've not survived a game in ages! Besides the last one, and that was just rubbish on my part anyway.:p) Also, keep in mind what I said earlier about suspects. We don't have to go that way and I won't press for it, but you're not just keeping someone from dying, you're keeping them from possibly killing too.

Is that a promise?

Funnily enough I may put in my lynch vote before my guard vote. It's almost like with a guard-vote my honor is at stake.

I think I may be able to answer to you both Pitch and Greenie... Just a moment. Your points do converge even if they come from quite different angles.

Lynch:
Nilp-->Nilp
Mnemo-->Wilwa
Brinn-->Cabbie
Nerwen-->Kit
Shasta-->Lommie
Kit-->Brinn


Guard:
Mnemo-->Boro
Brinn-->Legate
Sally-->Mnemo
Nerwen-->Legate
Kit-->Hakon
Shasta-->Legate (3)


Now we've got one on this page too. (Okay, so I'm trying to be helpful and cluttering up the thread. Shoot me. :p)


EDIT: x'd with Noggins

So....hmmmm, I shall think further about my 'plan'. This definitely makes it more plausible, though.

++Kitanna

Thought her reactions to Mnemo earlier in the day were suspicious, as well as her lynch-vote for Brinn. How is it that Brinn always seems to get herself in trouble...even when she actively tries to avoid it? Must be frustrating.

And I will guard

++Nienna

tonight.

Must attend to some things. If I magically disappear and don't seem to be coming back someone poke me or something. ;)


Lynch:
Nilp-->Nilp
Mnemo-->Wilwa
Brinn-->Cabbie
Nerwen-->Kit
Shasta-->Lommie
Kit-->Brinn
Boro-->Kit (2)


Guard:
Mnemo-->Boro
Brinn-->Legate
Sally-->Mnemo
Nerwen-->Legate
Kit-->Hakon
Shasta-->Legate (3)
Boro-->Nienna


I agree with Boro that Kit seems a bit off. And Brinn always gets herself in trouble because she is trouble. :p

Please be quick, I soooooo want to see your answer but I'll be going to sleep in a very short while (like, fifteen minutes or something).

Okay. Why am I bothered with Legate?

Well first he went forcibly against "the plan" basing it on a ridiculous idea that the ranger would have to reveal her/himself for us to execute it and putting her/himself on danger as well - thus making it look like a very dangerous plan for the innocents. He's intelligent enough to understand there is no reason for the ranger to reveal her/himself. That's not a difference of opinion.

Secondly he continued that same thing in his next post still. But soon he turned his wheels saying it would be "unfair" towards the wolves to use the plan...

I just don't trust him right now. It looks like he was trying to shoot the idea down in the earlier hours on the basis of it being too dangerous for the innocents but then went on opposing the idea on totally the opposite point of view eg. saying it would be too easy a win for the innocents...

And anyway that plan would be neither. It has its' risks and its' advantages. And no one can know beforehand what would happen if we sticked to it.

And what comes to Boro asking about this "protect Legate" bandwagon, I must say I'm as much at loss with it as you are, but could jump on it to save one of us the next Night with one wolf not able to kill... :rolleyes:

I mean that indirect knowledge toMorrow might be valuable indeed as I'm not sure I'd be ready to call for lynching Legate for these grounds even if I do suspect him at the moment.

Or it might even be direct knowledge!

If we protect Legate and there are two kills we know he's an innocent! Interesting... I hadn't thought of that earlier...

See? I am in fact useful sometimes! :)


That's the part I forgot to mention actually, though I'm sure you all realized it already. If we do at some point guard a suspect (and there are four wolves) if there are still two kills we know that person is innocent. So really it's like we've got an extra seer dream (sort of) every Night until we kill a wolf. Shiny, yes?

Sally, I think we can safely rule out Kit speculating on actually getting a majority for her Guard Hakon vote when there are several much more promising candidates around. Looks a little bit like a throwaway vote on her part.

Just a little addition to Nogrod's Wittgenstein post (have you been studying with Mac?;)):
Actually, all objections that have been and can be raised against Mnemo's plan apply equally to any other game. The Seer, once revealed, is always in danger, as is the Ranger (wow - that rhymed!). A fake reveal (or counter-reveal) by the wolves is always possible. The only, and crucial, difference with this game is that we have a chance to minimize (or at least reduce) the danger to our gifteds in a way that many other villages could only dream of.
But as I and many others have already said ad nauseam, the Seer will (and should) do as the Seer sees fit.

Nog's explanation about Legate satisfies me for now, but I'd still like to hear Legate himself.

EDIT: x-ed with Sally. Shiny indeed!

No? Blast. I was quite looking forward to it. Give us an extra one toMorrow. Just not one about wolves.
Can't say as I have anything solid at this point as regarding suspicions. However, I'll go ahead with this:

++ Guard Boro

I thought of Legate, but I'd like Boro to stick around another Day, and not get up to mischief if I'm wrong about him.

As for the lynch vote...

Think I'll have to go with Kitanna. I don't care for the reasoning of her vote on Brinn.

++ Kitanna

That was an interesting thought indeed!

So as long as we have four wolves and two possible Night-kills and we manage to protect an innocent ending up with two kills performed during the Night, we know the one we protected as a village is innocent. If the seer doesn't come out that makes it easier for the ranger to spot the right people to protect the next Night (and us not to lynch on the next Day) - and in a sense the mechanics work like us as a community working as seers together.

So with no further babbling...

++ guard Legate

EDIT: X'd from Sally on... and agreeing with her as is obvious.

That's pretty much what I thought too. I just wanted all the scenarios out there.


Lynch:
Nilp-->Nilp
Mnemo-->Wilwa
Brinn-->Cabbie
Nerwen-->Kit
Shasta-->Lommie
Kit-->Brinn
Boro-->Kit (2)
Dun-->Kit (3)


Guard:
Mnemo-->Boro
Brinn-->Legate
Sally-->Mnemo
Nerwen-->Legate
Kit-->Hakon
Shasta-->Legate (3)
Boro-->Nienna
Dun-->Boro (2)
Nog-->Legate (4)

Haha, so the one so baffled by the guard Legate -bandwagon jumps in! :D (Sorry, I know you had a reason and all, just amuses me still.)

So, I'll be off to bed now and leave the computer to Lommy, I'll answer to you toMorrow friend Noggins if we both are still alive.

++ Nogrod

++ Guard Nienna

That latter because she is sensible and sharp but hasn't talked much - therefore, she'd make a classic Night 1 kill. I don't want to see her go yet as I have a good vibe about her. Besides, she has already been voted so it's not throwing away my guard vote completely.

Okay, I finally managed to kick Legate out of the house and Greenie away from the computer :p, so I'm here and I'll be reading now. Don't expect much of me, I'm probably going to manage to post once and vote before the DL! More activity toMorrow then...

Patricide (:eek::rolleyes::p)brings the count to....


Lynch:
Nilp-->Nilp
Mnemo-->Wilwa
Brinn-->Cabbie
Nerwen-->Kit
Shasta-->Lommie
Kit-->Brinn
Boro-->Kit (2)
Dun-->Kit (3)
Greenie-->Nog

Still left to vote: Legate, Sally, Wilwa, Pitchie, Alona, Hakon, Lommie, Nienna, Nessa, Cabbie, Nog


Guard:
Mnemo-->Boro
Brinn-->Legate
Sally-->Mnemo
Nerwen-->Legate
Kit-->Hakon
Shasta-->Legate (3)
Boro-->Nienna
Dun-->Boro (2)
Nog-->Legate (4)
Greenie-->Nienna (2)

Still to vote: Legate, Wilwa, Pitchie, Alona, Hakon, Lommie, Nienna, Nessa, Cabbie, Nilp

The miner's pretty sure who they're going to vote tonight, but I'm still not sure on who to protect.

So, just to get a viewpoint of suspicion across,

++ wilwa

for silly discussion on the previous pages that could have an adverse effect to the village's safety.

I'm not happy with this Kit bandwagon... It looks like an easy way out with nothing actual to support it. I hope to have time to look back on it to say something about it on top of pure feeling...

Hehe Greenie... you're either too trigger-happy or evil... But as I saw no point in your vote but the annoyance of someone whose mates have been revealed (and seasoning it with that "friend Noggins" which I find the most suspicious) I will consider the latter the more probable... :confused:

A list of my thoughts on people to follow soon.

Lynch:
Nilp-->Nilp
Mnemo-->Wilwa
Brinn-->Cabbie
Nerwen-->Kit
Shasta-->Lommie
Kit-->Brinn
Boro-->Kit (2)
Dun-->Kit (3)
Greenie-->Nog
Cabbie-->Wilwa (2)

Still left to vote: Legate, Sally, Wilwa, Pitchie, Alona, Hakon, Lommie, Nienna, Nessa, Nog


Guard:
Mnemo-->Boro
Brinn-->Legate
Sally-->Mnemo
Nerwen-->Legate
Kit-->Hakon
Shasta-->Legate (3)
Boro-->Nienna
Dun-->Boro (2)
Nog-->Legate (4)
Greenie-->Nienna (2)

Still to vote: Legate, Wilwa, Pitchie, Alona, Hakon, Lommie, Nienna, Nessa, Cabbie, Nilp

Same here, to an extent. I think she may be guilty but it seems....almost too easy, or rather too....oh, heck if I know.


My top suspects are still Wilwa and Kit. I hate Day Ones. *goes to cuddle with Formie until the Day is over* :p

Dang it, here I go again, wavering and second-guessing myself about my Kit suspicion. Her last post sounds agreeable enough on the surface, but looking closer at it, it seems just a little bit too noncommittal. The reason she gives for her vote for Brinn is a plain case of plagiarism, if I may say so; and however much I disagree with Brinn's own vote myself, I don't find it sufficient to condemn her.
On the other hand, Kit behaves much like I might (and have done) myself as an innocent when I'm completely clueless. I've never played with her, but if I'm not mistaken, she's quite an experienced player - wouldn't she do better if she really was a wolf? Maybe those of you who know her better than I do can tell.

Here's the list of people I have even some vague feelings of...

Suspicious (funny but I seem to suspect the most the people I know the best from the RL):
Legate of Amon Lanc - I have already made the points on him but would not like to lynch him but rather check him by protecting him as a village toNight. As innocent he could be an asset even if for a short time.
Thinlómien - This I argued as well already albeit I'm waiting for her to post again as she promised and that might change things...
A Little Green - Too much rhetorics and decision based a bit too purposefully suiting the rhetorics given. I might consider voting her unless better ideas come forwards (a better idea being for example someone who really tries to hunker down and not saying anything to be safe)

Innocentish:
Mnemosyne - For starting the discussion on the "plan" and not giving in with it even if many people suspected her for it. My only fear is that I agree with her too much so far...
Pitchwife - Making really good points thus far and feeling like thinking about the matters from the innocent perspective...
Brinniel - The first to say it out aloud that the "plan" might be dangerous to us innocents. Looks very good indeed in comparison to some others opposing the plan...
Boromir88 - Speaks sense and the attitude looks more like that of an innocent than that of a wolf.
Shastanis Althreduin - Believe it or not, but with only one post I thought it was reasonable enough to gain trust at least for Day1...

Confused about:
satansaloser2005 - So involved it almost makes me think she's a wolf but not nervous as I remember her to be when being one... So she has learned the trade or is actually just having time?
wilwarin538 - playful and active in the beginning... hard to say, as it's hard to say why so many suspect her as easily...
Kitanna - I see where the general suspicions are coming from but am afraid it might be one of those Day1 unhappy bandwagons where insecure people vote for the one everyone else seems to suspect.
Nilpaurion Felagund - Well, what can you say about a suicidal maniac? But then again he made a few good points as well.

No actual feeling thus far (eg. my top candidates? :rolleyes:)
Inziladun
alonariel
Hakon
Nienna
Nerwen
Nessa Telrunya
McCaber


I really can't say right now. And that's what I fear with these people. I need to try and check back to form an opinion...

Great minds think alike. ;)

You can call me a conservative, but the idea doesn't generally seem like something I'd like to try and for both of the reasons, even though they are a bit contradictory. However, it makes sense if you think it the way that you wouldn't like to try a plan that feels a bit like cheating AND may not work at all. That's how I feel.

I said I DO NOT want random votes. I hate them. But there could be discussion about something else. And I just simply don't like the idea, it's not carefully enough thought through and it feels unfair, like I already said. I would feel the same way with any role, but I don't get why it makes me wolvish that I criticise it: I think it's rather the contrary, I think those who are the most eager to develop the ideas may be some people desperate to hide their fur.

have you been drinking or are you a wolf? You're just being way too aggressive to be a thoughtful innocent and it's kind of annoying me - because I quite clearly did say that I think the plan is too risky and it's a part of the reason why I don't like it. You even talked about me saying that. And now you're claiming I didn't say that. It doesn't make any sense.

I'm getting bad vibes from Kitanna, but I get that every single time I play with her. :rolleyes: That's why I'm not enthusiastic about the bandwagon against her.

Not necessarily - unless Eönwë says something definite in the narrations, our ranger may just have made a save. But that's a very good point and it makes guard-voting possible wolves [(even) more] sensible.


xed with everybody

Nog: If it helps, last game I was an ordo and had top post count. I fluctuate, that's all. And I'm not a wolf so it hardly matters, does it? :)

Oh, and Lommie? Steve said he would indicate a save in the narration, so we would in fact know the difference.

Zil worries me the most right now. He may get my lynch vote. His vote for Kit seems like a jump on a bandwagon.

and

++Guard Mnemo

reasons stated in a previous post.

*tries very hard not to start suspecting Nogrod*

But I can just so perfectly see where Greenie is coming from. (And a double-patricide would be a lot of fun anyway. :p)

The problem is just that I think Nogrod probably is an innocent, even though he provokes my automatic wolf alarm reactions because he is disagreeing with me (not seeing completely valid points! and suspecting people like Greenie whom I don't suspect and feeling rather knee-jerk in that) and accusing me baselessly.

And now reading what I just wrote makes me suspicious of him. Blast.

*hurries off to make a quick list to clear her head before the DL*


edit: xed with all - thanks for clarifying Sally

Lynch:
Nilp-->Nilp
Mnemo-->Wilwa
Brinn-->Cabbie
Nerwen-->Kit
Shasta-->Lommie
Kit-->Brinn
Boro-->Kit (2)
Dun-->Kit (3)
Greenie-->Nog
Cabbie-->Wilwa (2)

Still left to vote: Legate, Sally, Wilwa, Pitchie, Alona, Hakon, Lommie, Nienna, Nessa, Nog


Guard:
Mnemo-->Boro
Brinn-->Legate
Sally-->Mnemo
Nerwen-->Legate
Kit-->Hakon
Shasta-->Legate (3)
Boro-->Nienna
Dun-->Boro (2)
Nog-->Legate (4)
Greenie-->Nienna (2)
Nienna-->Mnemo (2)

Still to vote: Legate, Wilwa, Pitchie, Alona, Hakon, Lommie, Nessa, Cabbie, Nilp


EDIT: x'd with Lommie. No problem, dearest. :)

Huh, okay. Quick sum, hope not to x-post with too many, and then some votes. Ha, great, right upon DL. And that's something about going to sleep early...

I liked this post and noting that down that Nienna is speaking sensibly and I put her more into the "good feeling" part of my list.

For some reason, I was thinking the same. Actually Mr. Nog's absolutely heedless pursuit of little me makes me a bit uncomfortable, now if he's the one to speak of not-very-well-thought-through behavior of others while he's doing such things himself. He's not acting like Thomas Aquineus, from whom he apparently copies his way of placing arguments, but a bit more like the Grand Inquisitor. Shouldn't you take a deep breath, Nog?

Okay, that clears it up for me.

Sure. My points were just that Nerwen looks innocent to me. All her posts were helpful, logical, she didn't say much, but all she said made sense and seemed to be genuine. With Lommy, I already said that I could basically agree with what she said and I also had a good feeling from that, similarly as with Nerwen. So when choosing whom to guard, I was thinking of these two. And I was considering that maybe Lommy would be better just because of the fact that I thought there's a larger chance that she can be a Wolf (an unsuspicious one) than Nerwen, thus, I had two reasons to guard her (if you put it like that). But of course I don't really suspect any of them - it's just that IF one of them was fooling me now, Lommy seemed more possible to me.

Now that was really rude.

Okay, now this is one thing I don't completely see - what reason do you actually have to guard Hakon? It's a totally throwaway thing, and I can't see any reason to do it except for trying to be fair to somebody who's not around. That's of course nice thing to do, to be fair and protect such a possible victim (with this I agree with you, that wolves often pick those people). But then, really people seldom act so "fairly" just for the fairness itself, so that's why I am asking if you have other reasons beyond that? (Maybe I should trust in nice motives, but for some reason I think it's not generally like that in WW, and not even from you, but maybe I am mistaken.)

That's very, very good point - makes me think good of McC - but of course (and I see that's been mentioned also), there is this fact that if there ARE two kills, we get a known innocent. (Who, though, btw, cannot be Night Guarded the Night after, so he's as good as dead soon - or maybe not? Because the Ranger can protect him, which of course is likely, unless he has some better person to protect.)

Okay, but that actually WAS Brinn's point, to vote somebody who hasn't been around yet? Anyway, this is just plain wrong, I have a bad feeling about this, because it happens with Brinn all the time and she gets lynched for that. I am not accusing Kit because of that, but I am certainly not going to join that. (Why would I anyway. Btw I find Brinn quite good right now.)

Okay, that was a bit rude but whatever. Now let's see how much I have x-ed with and then quickly vote!

I just got on and had time to read most of the posts but I only skimmed this last page here. So far I only have gut feelings about two people. Those people are Legate and Boro. My gut feeling with Legate is just that something is off and it is bothering me. My gut feeling about Boro is that he is an innocent.

++Boro

++Legate

I'm here!!! Waaaayyy later then I expected! Will skim through quickly and vote and such...

Feel goodish
Mnemo
Greenie
Cabbie
Legate
Sally

No idea
Nilp
Nerwen
Brinn
Boro
Inziladun
Wilwa
Pitch
Alona
Hakon
Nessa

Feel badish
Nogrod
Shasta
Kit

Won't have time to elaborate, and besides given that I have had almost zero time for ww toDay it wouldn't even be much, so that's it. I can elaborate on one though - I have a bad feeling about Shasta, he's too eager. But most of my bad feeling may be due to him disagreeing with me rather completely (not the least about my innocence ;)).

I'm starting to see the point in random votes... :rolleyes: (Not really though, I just said that to make it clear I have no idea who to vote for. And the sooner I go to sleep, the better. Arg. Maybe I'll have a look at the votes that have been cast this far because to be honest I haven't paid any attention to the general situation...)


edit: mass-xed again

Lynch:
Nilp-->Nilp
Mnemo-->Wilwa
Brinn-->Cabbie
Nerwen-->Kit
Shasta-->Lommie
Kit-->Brinn
Boro-->Kit (2)
Dun-->Kit (3)
Greenie-->Nog
Cabbie-->Wilwa (2)
Hakon-->Legate

Still left to vote: Legate, Sally, Wilwa, Pitchie, Alona, Lommie, Nienna, Nessa, Nog


Guard:
Mnemo-->Boro
Brinn-->Legate
Sally-->Mnemo
Nerwen-->Legate
Kit-->Hakon
Shasta-->Legate (3)
Boro-->Nienna
Dun-->Boro (2)
Nog-->Legate (4)
Greenie-->Nienna (2)
Nienna-->Mnemo (2)
Hakon-->Boro (2)

Still to vote: Legate, Wilwa, Pitchie, Alona, Lommie, Nessa, Cabbie, Nilp


EDIT: x'd with Wilwa and Lommie

Thanks Lommy love you too :p

Okay, actually of all your prime suspects (well, of course :) ) I find this somewhat reflecting mine. Somewhat. I am a tiny little bit uneasy from Greenie, but what made me say it aloud is actually this, as I have been thinking whether there cannot be some wolf-on-wolf suspicion here. You know, if both of you are wolves, you could do this, just putting your mate into a nice list. I am saying that because it sort of echoes what I thought in the first place at some Greenie's words about you: that it looks maybe a tiny bit like a wolf-on-wolf suspicion.


Are you sure you don't mean i.e.? ;)

Hey, good point. So we should actually night guard someone we want to have as a known innocent? Although - risking the wrath of Pater Nogger :p - that seems a bit unfair to me too, but somehow not as bad as the seer tactic and given that the wolves profit from it too by getting a ready made kill list, it's maybe just fair. :rolleyes: :D And there probably is some hole in this tactic, or possibly, but no time to think of it now! That's for toMorrow.

edit: xed again