+ + Bill Ferny

I nicely devious character, especially to
apparently survive given his numerous
encounters with various good and bad guys.

++Ferny

Always better than a random orc with a silly name.

Noooo! I missed the Thuringwethil match! Not that I would have made a difference. :( *shakes fist angrily*

Haha, a game of two slimy opportunists...

Now as you all seem to vote for Bil Ferny because he's someone it's esier to relate to then I should in principle vote otherwise.

++ Golfimbul

C'mon, he actually did something whereas Bill Ferny just gave information but stayed in the background all the time trying to be safe and not be seen as taking sides. Golfimbul was open with his stance and stood for what he did. :rolleyes:

Yes, he was open with his stance and followed it; he basically took head...

Exactly, Golfimbul has two sentences in the entire Tolkien universe. It wasn't even Golfimbul who created golf, it was the old Took. Hats off to him for that!:D

++Bill Ferny

Your typical buy me off type of person. A really disgusting character, but a much better villain than Golfimbul.

Now where's the sportsmanship in here?

It's now 7-1.

You call this a competition?

To me, Ferny seems like a cowardly and despicable wimp.

At least Golfimbul tried to raid the Shire. Ferny had to wait for someone else to do it and then nosed in to take advantage of the situation.

++Golfimbul

Golfimbul-2 Bill Ferny-7

Golfimbul rolls away with three of his chums
to take on the Took Tornadoes in a lively
game of lawn bowling.

Next: Two neighbors in TH, neither with an
especially positive relationship to Thorin & Co. in
general or burrahobbits in particular:
The Great Goblin vs. William

Bolg was living off the accomplishments of his far greater father, Azog. William had a better accent.

++William

+ + William

Not only was he a great humanitarian
toward burrahobbits:
But he showed tactical survival sense beyond his mates:

Wait, wait. Just so that there is no confusion: Bolg is son of Azog and he comes from Gundabad, and was the leader of the Orcs in the Battle of the Five Armies. The Great Goblin is the master of the Goblins of the High Pass, and he has no name, and he was killed by Gandalf, in the result of which the Dwarves were freed.

The Great Goblin was quite interesting. I mean, not really bad. But William is my favourite of the Trolls. And he was the most... hmm... nice :) I mean, he does not want to eat poor Bilbo and wants to let him go. And poor him, he was accused by his fellows for leading them down from the mountains, even though he surely had the best intentions in mind! He certainly deserves some credit.

++William

EDIT: x-ed with Tuor. Yes, exactly! I am glad to see I am not the only one who noticed that :)

++William

He even has a surname of Huggins. Interesting, I'll bet, the study of hill troll genealogy.

Yes, that's another interesting thing. I always forget about it - mainly because in my translation, it's for some reason left out. I wonder what made them not to translate it...

I wonder more why Tolkien decided to give William that surname in the first place! Why a surname? And of all the possibilities he comes up with Huggins! Now really... :rolleyes:

It would be reasonable to stand against the tide again and vote for the Great Goblin, but he's just not... well, votable.

I think he was always the mere nobody standing for a role there had to be. A goblin king living under the mountains could have been a formidable character but GG is not.

++ William

The Great Goblin was mean to Thorin.

++William

Hmm, William was mean to the dwarves, too. But less so. And he didn't eat their ponies.

Well, and why not? You could ask the same way, why a name, in the first place? This, if nothing else, implies the reoccurance of first names among Trolls. One was Bill the Goat-Eater, another was Bill Two-Tooth, another one was Bill Huggins. It does not necessarily imply a family name, although... hmm... a Huggins clan... "Clan of the Red Claw!" "Clan of the Stone!" "Clan of Huggins!" Now, really...

Well, at least you can be glad he wasn't called Bill Noggins :p

Oh, and actually... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Huggins

I think the time of his life implies that Tolkien might have been well informed about him...

Well, it's not that bad... he has one or two interesting quotes, like "Murderers and friends of Elves!" and "Throw them into the pits full of snakes!", which beats Legolas from the movies, but

++The Great Goblin

I've always liked the goblins, especially as portrayed in The Hobbit (if they're really portrayed anywhere else). They're more interesting than other orcs to me, as they are more independent. And I like how they're kinda buddy-buddy with the wargs, without the wargs being subject to them. They also, from what I remember, seem to be possible to reason with. They seem to have protocols.

I like Bert, Tom, and Bill plenty, but...meh, there's three of them.

Well, they're goblins...in The Hobbit, a children's story...they have to be a little silly and thus their leader largely incompetent...to avoid gruesome torture and death scenes and such... As if Bert, Tom, and Bill are especially formidable. :rolleyes: :D

Ah yes, true. Actually, it looked like that under some circumstances, Thoring could have talked himself out of the situation... true. A pity, really. Hmm, I should have re-read that before voting. Perhaps I would have reconsidered. Well, but still. William is a nice guy.

William-6 The Great Goblin-1

Next: Gorbag vs. Shagrat
A tragic brother against brother (sort of) struggle, perhaps
somewhere between Damon and Pythias and Cain and Abel,
okay, probably the latter.
To hear what they might well select as their theme song
try a Google search for . (I can't post directly an http link,
due no doubt to my very limited computer savvy. I could get
links on my old PC but not with my new laptop).

Now, I think this match could at last be interesting, and I am really interested in seeing the preferrences people have.

For me, it is Gorbag, because... I just like him. To me, he seems a bit nicer, a bit more clever, in some way, he is more "independant" (though Shagrat is also, but in his own, rather nasty way). I mean, Gorbag looks like more of a relaxed-type guy to me. And he has far cooler coat of arms, dwells in a far cooler place (and probably has a regular talk to the Nazgul).

And, he was the only known Orc with an apparent interest in philosophy of metaphysics. :smokin: Hmm, perhaps he would have became a good philosopher, had he had the time and not be too burdened by his duties as a commander (or again, if he was "free", then if he had enough other Orcs to take care of supplying the food and all necessary things... hmm, now where I have heard this...). Or he had metaphysics as his hobby. (Stimulated, no doubt, by his living is such a proximity to the Ringwraith - as it is even implied by the text itself.)

++Gorbag

I really disliked Shagrat in the beginning, to be honest, although in the end, nowadays I don't mind him anymore, in fact, I could perhaps sort of like him as well. But Gorbag is still far in the lead.

And these two, in their interactions and
allusions, and their own succoming to the
power of the Ring- not unlike Boromir and
Frodo, et. al.- come closest to making Orcs
"human."

An example of their "humanness":

++Shagrat

He always struck me as.. well... more sneaky and less of the Schwarzenegger-type. :D Although, Gorbag might even be smarter after all, but Shagrat has the "home ground" so he does look like the smart expert. I don't know, it's maybe the same as that I always liked Grishnákh more than Uglúk, although Uglúk is the one more "worthy" of liking of those two.

Great! I always had it the other way around. And (as I just now re-read it), Shagrat looks more like an expert in the things concerning Shelob etc., but when it comes to reasoning, Gorbag is more clever - like, in this sense that he suspects this "great Elven warrior" and puts two and two together, knowing that if Frodo was alone, he would have been eaten already.

Due to a lack of voting, time for this round
will be extended for at least 12 hours.

He managed to get away with Frodo's gear, so I'll give Shagrat the edge.

++Shagrat

Shagrat killed Gorbag. So, is it really a contest, then? I mean, seriously...

++Shagrat for being the last orc standing.

Anemic voting results:
Gorbag-2 Shagrat-3

Next: Grima Wormtongue vs. Queen Beruthiel

You know what troubles me? The fact that for the second time when you have a woman in this contest, she stands again against somebody whom I really can not not vote. (I hope I was clear ;) )

++Wormtongue

As a side note: I just love one picture of him, by John Montelone, where he is bald (or, mostly, at least). I did not imagine him like that when reading the book, but I like this portrayal of him. (In fact, I was sort of surprised by the white-faced long-haired Severus Snape from the TT movie...)

++Wormtongue

Wormtongue is quite nice. (Err... "nice"? :D)

And I never liked Queen Berúthiel, even though I like her husband even less.

Well, but I think that's actually very well phrased :)

++Queen Beruthiel

Because she is a badass cat-lady, and thus an idol of mine.

She is just so unique of a nasty person. I mean, really. Cats as spies? Being put out to sea with a bunch of cats (that must have been interesting)? Where else are you going to find that?

Wormtongue is much more typical -- the little toady who turns on his master in the end. He does the dirty work...Queen Beruthiel has her cats do the dirty work. Much cooler.

Originally posted by Legate of Amon Lanc
Also, Thuringwethil , and presumably the cats, were females.
Not good results so far for the ladies.

+ + Queen Beruthiel
Especially if she and her spies were rescued off South
Gondor and caused even more problems there.

Well, I thought about the cats as well, but they are such a mass that who knows - although, okay, perhaps the single cat is clear at least. And as for the other female, I meant Thuringwethil. Who is the other...

...ah, yes. Shelob, of course. Okay, I probably got a bit confused, not thinking about her, for I was trying to remember humanoid females at first.

++Wormtongue

Because I've always loved him, despite his intense creepiness, and have no idea who Queen Beruthiel is, thought I'm sure I probably should, haha.

Didn't I read that Queen Beruthiel was carried about with her feline familiars on a sort of stretcher by servants? Wouldn't that make her mode of transportation a cat litter?

Ummm..sorry, I was reaching on that one.

Anyway, ++Wormtongue

++Queen Beruthiel

Because I'm getting sick of the mice that have decided to invade our basement. And Wormtongue would be just another rat.

Grima Wormtongue-5 Queen Beruthiel-3

Next, the penultimate first round match:
Bolg (who possibly has an even greater aversion
to bears than Stephen Colbert) vs. Morgoth