Well I don't know him but if anything, I would not vote for tgwbs today. I think there are far better candidates, and tgwbs really doesn't seem that much of a wolf now.

tgwbs 2
Mith 2
Lommy 2
Gil 1

This looks strangely familiar. :D

Okay. This waiting is ridiculous if everyone just waits for others to act.

++ tgwbs

EDIT: X'd with Legate and Mac

Well of course, of course, then I wouldn't believe that person a green hat on St.Patrick's day. But stop it, or I'll start thinking you are a Cobbler.

OK.....

He may be being random and untypical ..but he is wrong about me... and I really don't know about the others

++Gil Galad

And would that have changed anything, Noggie? Or do you pity that we don't have retractions now?

Legate, you know Sixth is a newbie. Quite natural for a newbie to follow the footsteps of a more experienced player, I'd say.
Legate needs to be looked at more closely. I may be dead tomorrow, so I thought I'd point that out.

As for today, I'll go with:

++The Guy Who Be Short

who I've suspected from the beginning, as I've said; there seems to be no better lead (though Roa makes a good point about Gil).

If Legate votes Lommy, it will come down to Rikae to decide, now.

(unless Xyzzy appears out of nowhere)


edit: *shakes head*

Okay... it's clear now.

++Thinlómien

EDIT: x-ed with Rikae and... who was it?

i don't like this... we are too spread out in our suspicions... but if IGWBS indeed proves to be a wolf, then we will have to analyze using WW-Math

And just in case I'm dead ... remember if Xyzzy doesn't step up... you can't evade the issue indefinitely...

Well this voting was maybe even more ridiculous than the ordinary are... but I think still if I voted earlier it wouldn't make any difference, I guess you wouldn't pick Lommy even if I posted that before, would you, Rikae?

Well, only a few minutes until we find out whether he is or not...

EDIT: X-ed with Mithalwen and Legate

So waiting for the undecisive voting place now were we? :D

The guy who be short sat alone in his bakery, humming to himself as he baked some bread.

Just then, the other villagers barged in angrily.

"What is the meaning of this?" the baker demanded.

"You're going to the gallows for what you've done!" the miller shouted. "Don't bother denying it!"

"Was last night's pie really that bad?" TGWBS asked innocently.

The villagers carried him up to the gallows and put the noose around his neck. The baker's last words were:

"Gasp... I... hate... you... villagers... wish... the wolves... killed you...gaaaaack." No transformation occurred.

"Oops. Guess we were wrong," Mithalwen stammered. "But why were his last words so hostile?"

After searching the bakery, the villagers found the answer. Several nasty letters about the villagers had been hidden away, and moreover, there was a fresh peach cobbler sitting out on the counter.

Alive:
Brinniel
Gil-Galad
Legate of Amon Lanc
Macalaure
Mithalwen
Nogrod
Rikae
Roa_Aoife
The Sixth Wizard
Thinlómien
xyzzy

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Devoured by Wolves on Night 1
Glirdan (Werewolf): Stoned to death by Villagers on Day 1
the guy who be short (Cobbler): Became the guy who be hung by Villagers on Day 2

Day 2 is over. Night 3 will not start until the usual time on Monday due to Easter. You can, however PM me names of targets and such over the weekend in between.

Lommy? I haven't seen a plausible case for Lommy being a wolf yet, to put it simply.

No, waiting for Mith to vote... to be sure

EDIT: oh, sorry! Crossed the line.

The sun rose beyond the mountain range, spilling its light over the peaks. Another day had dawned.

The villagers gathered in the center of town. It was a warm, beautiful day without a cloud in the sky, and they were intent on enjoying themselves. Something was missing, however.

"Where's Brinniel?" asked Nogrod the Miller. "I've got parts for my mill that should have been fixed overnight!"

Indeed, the blacksmith had not arrived with the others.

"She must still be working," said Rikae. "Poor girl has always been diligent, even if she's not very graceful. Come on; let's see what she's up to."

Inside the blacksmith's shop, however, a grim sight met their eyes. The body of Brinniel lay on the ground, crushed under her anvil. Paw prints were everywhere, and the shop looked like a hurricane had gone through it.

"Oh my..." Mithalwen stammered.

"It appears the wolves have claimed another victim," Macalaure commented dourly.

Alive:
Gil-Galad
Legate of Amon Lanc
Macalaure
Mithalwen
Nogrod
Rikae
Roa_Aoife
The Sixth Wizard
Thinlómien
xyzzy

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Devoured by Wolves on Night 1
Glirdan (Werewolf): Stoned to death by Villagers on Day 1
the guy who be short (Cobbler): Became the guy who be hung by Villagers on Day 2
Brinniel (Ordinary Villager): Crushed under anvil by Wolves on Night 3.

Day 3 beginneth.

Brinniel, eh? That's surprising. I was expecting Sixth.....

I'm going to go back through Brinniel's posts to see if I can pinpoint why she was killed. I'm also going to look through TGWBS's posts. I don't expect much- he's as tricksy as I am. More importantly, I'm going to look at people's reactions to him. I expect to find more there.

Either one of them... both being the most reasonable candidates. I can't see a surprise here.
Brinniel might have had points and any help we can get is good for us, but you won't get any traditional ww-evidence out of her (she being killed because of something she said).The reason why she was killed was most probably based on the "meta-reasons" - as you called them.

And with that I'll shut my mouth with that discussion.

I'll try to have a look around too before I need to go to sleep...

wow... i almost forgot about what happened last day so i have nothing to add right now... hopefully in a bit

You're probably right, but I want to take a look anyways. I'm more interested in how other people were reacting to her than her to them, if that makes any sense. Same with TGWBS.

A good piece of advice. We should take everythnig tgwbs said with the famous pinch of salt...

I have experience of being a cobbler myself from earlier games. It's one of the most enjoyable roles there is - and also one of the most nerve-wrecking.

But some basics to interpret a cobblers posting should be shared...

He does not know the wolves identities (at least normally he doesn't - we don't know about it with this game to be sure). That makes the cobbler to adapt to one of the different strategies - others sure are possible.
a. Hunker down (play most normally) and try to stay alive (not charging anyone too openly) until you have better ideas of who is who and start to meddle only after that.
b. Go on openly chasing some random people and relieve others in a way that you can secretly try to inform the wolves about your identity. Then just hope the wolves will not get you during the Night.
c. If you have a hunch of the wolves identities, attack one of them with some hidden notes to them / relieve players you think bad for the wolves with the same fashion. Again: just hope the wolves will not get you during the Night.

But that's the starting position only.

A cobbler will adapt his game to the situation. In the case of tgwbs I strongly believe that at least after Day1 he knew he was close to the gallows (not the least because he had no chances to talk to himself at the deadline). So he would then adjust his posting accordingly. The only problem is, whether he was just double-bluffing us or whether he went further...

That sounds like a lot of sense to me.

G'day other Were-wolverinos! It has been a while since we were last on...

It appears through my lack of experience I am being too open and getting myself killed. No matter! :)

So... TGWBS was a cobbler, Brinniel was just a normal villager (a win for us, as she wasn't gifted?) and Glirdan was a wolf. Seems so far my suspicions may be correct.

This remark I can see in a new light right now. Now why on earth did a cobbler say that? Trying to contact a wolf?

It indeed mirrors Roa's strategy in her last game as a cobbler and the rant she had with spm - and she also cleared me of all suspicion then as tgwbs did from Day2 onwards. Or was he trying to pose as a seer to my viewpoint at least? I remember Mith's concern about him being a gifted. I shared the same concern for a while after I read tgwbs's defence of myself and the way he set his suspicions / innocents lists on Day2. In the end I managed to get get myself over it and thought that were he a Seer he would not have acted that bluntly... happily so.

But I'm also a bit surprised of the way Roa decided to act as surprised with the death of Brinniel. That felt just like an undetached quasi-wonder to be made for the sake of saying something. But it's Roa and she rarely just fills in nonsense lines - and she was the one to first draw attention to these meta-reasons anyway... so she would have known?

I would also like to bring forwards the way Glirdy (known wolf) acted towards Roa on Day1. YesterDay I thought it talked in favour of her but now I'm not so sure anymore.

After Roa's initial discussion of the care we should take on any revealments Glirdy answered:And after Roa answered him he said: Funny that Roa was this lenient to answer Glirdy just by way of saying that "I think you've misunderstood me entirely, or else you are intentionally misrepresenting my post". It's the nicest way I have ever seen Roa talk of any other person in this game who doubted her - unless she has had something to hide... :rolleyes: But see also the way Glirdy gets back into line after Roa's point...

Okay. I don't know. It's too late for me to continue to see if this case has anything of merit in it. I do normally suspect Roa (and she does suspect me). In that way we're even. I know I have now laid some points for suspecting her as I'm going to retire for the night (rl) and I can only guess what kind of full-scaled attacks she could launch at me while I'm away...

I'm not sure about this, not even convinced. And all the evidence we draw from tgwbs (with which my curiosity to look at Roa was raised) must be taken basically in line with the probabilty that he didn't know the wolves identities any more than we do... and that he wanted to lead us astray - but also to contact the wolves. That is one of the most pressing things for cobblers, to be recognised by the right persons... according to whom they believe are the ones... So all this is just what little raised my eyebrows before going to sleep. I hope I can be more elaborate with this and more importantly, with other possibilities as I awake and have some time to look at this more thoroughly.

You forgot D. Confuse/ mis-direct discussion, and throw suspicion in as many directions as possible so as to create havoc in the village

Also, E. Play suspiciously so as to get yourself lynched in place of a wolf

And finally, F. Try to draw suspicion away from someone you believe is a wolf by creating suspicion against someone else, potentially someone bad for the wolves.

With that, option A was clearly not what TGWBS was doing, given his agressive suspicion of Lommy and myself. B is more of a possibility (one reason I'm looking into people's reactions to him). C would be far too straightforward for TGWBS. (He's more the type to double bluff us with that.) D, he clearly did with his continued discussion of potential gifted rooles and what we should do if someone claims to be a gifted. E is something I would suspect of a less experienced player, not TGWBS. F is as possible as B, especially since he tried to keep discussion away from Glirdan, whom we now know is a wolf. Of course, he didn't know that, but he could have suspected it, as others did.

In summary, A= no; B= maybe; C=probably not; D= yes; E= no; and F= maybe.

EDIT: Crossed with Nogrod

After I reread my last post, let me be clear.

It's pretty sure that tgwbs thought Roa a wolf. There's no other way of interpreting some of the points he made - the one I quoted in my last post is a good example.

But if he didn't knew who the wolves are (which normally is the case) that's not much of a proof to anything.

Waffling again now... but with a reason, I think.

Well. You all look at the things yourselves. To me it's now Good Night.

EDIT: X'd with Roa

You sure are right with these... although I did leave your cases E and F out as they only go for certain particular situations. But case D I totally forgot. My bad... as I myself did just that for the first couple of Days as I was a cobbler a long time ago. That surely is one of the most important ways a cobbler could work...

Good night again... :)

Or trying to get everyone else's suspicions riled up against a dangerous player. That's why the wolves leave me alive after all.

As I said at the end of my last game, my only strategy in defending you and attacking SPM was to get my identity to the wolves. I made no decisions about either of you in terms of wolvishness. But that game I had a list that I could send to the wolves every night, and through that I revealed myself. This was a special rule, specifically for that game. It is unlikely that TGWBS had the same tool.

I wasn't acting surprised; I was surprised. To be perfectly honest, I had given virtually no thought to Brin whatsoever. Seeing as Sixth's voting record had/ has almost the entire village convinced he's innocent, I was fully expecting the wolves to take him out. Another target hadn't really entered my mind. In hind sight, (especially looking through the thread now), I'm beginning to understand. (Wish I'd payed a bit more attention to that.)

Hey, I'm nice more often than you seem to think. Besides it was less than six hours into Day 1. I had reason to be a bit more cautious in my suspicions. I'm glad I was, or I might not have started looking at TGWBS. While I was more certain he had intentionally mis-interperted my post, the possibility that he was making a genuine mistake was very real. Further more, I almost always allow for that when I see people mis-representing things. The only exceptions are when I'm evil and trying to lynch an innocent, or when I'm innocent and certain I've found a baddie.

I already brought up everything on Day 2. Unless I find something else on my read through and graphing (I'm graphing everyone's suspicions, etc), I don't see why I would attack you again. That'd be redundant.

Hmm...

At the (admittedly small) chance that TGWBS had any idea what he was talking about, I'm going to vote for...

++Roa

I won't be on until perhaps tonight, but probably tomorrow after day has ended... Darned schedule of mine, I blast thee to the very dankest parts of heck.

...Or somewhere equally bad.

I went ahead and added Glirdan, just because.

Brinniel
Day 1, thought Sixth, TGWBS, and Thin as innocent,
suspected Gil and Roa,
slightly suspected TGWBS

Suspected by Nogrod and Legate,
thought innocent by none

Day 2, thought Legate, Mac, Sixth, and Thin innocent,
Suspected Gil, Mith, and Nogrod

Suspected by Mith and Rikae
Thought innocent by Legate, Mac, Nogrod, and Thin

TGWBS
Day 1, Suspected Roa, Sixth, and Thin

Suspected by Mac, Mith, Rikae, and Roa,
thought innocent by Brinniel and Legate

Day 2, Thought Mith, Nogrod, Rikae, and Sixth innocent
Suspected Mac, Roa, and Lommy

Suspected by Nogrod, Rikae, Roa, Sixth, Thin, and xyzzy
Thought innocent by Gil, Legate, and Mac

Glirdan

Suspected Roa, Sixth, and Thin

SUspected by Mac, Mith, Rikae, Roa, Sixth, and Thin



Something interesting- Day 1, Glirdan and TGWBS both had the same three suspects. Now, TGWBS could not have been certain that Glirdan was a wolf, but as Glirdan expressed these suspicions first, and as he avoided ever stating his opinion about Glirdan, it seems a very high probability that he figured it out. Lommy and Sixth did, after all.

The only other person to have these three as top suspects is Gil. Not sure what that says, but it's worth mentioning.

As for Brin, she was highly suspected Day 1, and had enough suspicion on Day 2 that she doesn't seem that obvious of a wolf kill. It leads me to wonder why her and not Sixth, who was trusted by almost everyone? I can't figure out if this points to a wolvish Sixth, or if the wolves had reason to pick Brinniel instead, such as suspecting her of giftedness.

And now that I've looked through, something else has caught my eye: Nogrod's post about potential Cobbler strategies for TGWBS makes option C (see quote) seem like the obvious choice. He even goes on to use it a reasoning for a case against me.

This is very convenient for Nogrod, given that TGWBS said he was innocent. It reminds of what the wolfish SPM did when I was the cobbler- trying to make it seem as though I thought he was innocent. As I recall, the then innocent Nogrod didn't fall for it. Why so keen to go for it now, except that it clearly exonerates him?

Ah, I forgot: Though Brinniel deemed Thin innocent, she stated that all the suspicion against Thin was making her rethink it, and promised to look further into Lommy today if she was alive. Fortunately for Lommy, Brin didn't make it through the night.

Nogrod was quick to suggest that there was no link between Brin's death and anyone else. That wouldn't be the first time he's protected Lommy.

Also:

Is it? I can think of multiple ways to interpert what he said to me. In fact, the way I took it was that he wanted me lynched, something the wolves are typically after, and something a cobbler would be happy to help with. TGWBS is an influencial player. I doubt he would launch so strong an attack against someone he thought was a wolf.

Well, Nogrod, you certainly aren't lowering my suspicions of you today.

I still can not shrug off my suspicion of Mithalwen...


i don't like this, she "suspected" me and Brinniel of being a wolf, and with Brinniel dead, that leaves me, i think that perhaps Mithalwen is trying to direct the attention to me as being a wolf, and if she is the wolf, then she will shrug it off of herself...

don't like it one bit... plus the "i don't care" defenses she has been giving...

Do we have a hunter in the group? Was the Night 2 no-kill because of this or did the wolves just not post a name? Are we allowed to know, mister Menel? :Merisu:

Perhaps the wolves didn't go for me on Night 3 because they thought it would be too obvious. If the hunter really did stop the wolves Night 2 the wolves would have to be more wary, going for someone possibly valuable but not quite innocent in the public eye.

I'll start the rather tedious going over of people's posts soon, in the meantime, my old suspicions stand.

tgwbs dead, Brinn dead.

I'm not really surprised they went for Brinniel. Because of these stupid meta-reasons she and Six look(ed) very innocent. Probably the wolves thought Brinn more of a threat than Six. Her opinions are worthy of a second look. Hopefully she was more than just the greater potential threat.

tgwbs looks like an awfully obvious cobbler, in hindsight. I doubt we can read much from his posts. His knowledge was as incomplete as everyone's, and then he even had to twist what he thought he knew in whatever way. I'll try anyway.

Going to be back later.

Incomiiing
 

Seconded. Even if Roa is lying at that moment to save her neck, this makes perfect sense.

Interesting. If I now based my accusations mainly on what Glirdy and TGWBS did, it would cast rather positive light on Lommy - or if Lommy was a wolf, this would be the meanest trick I've ever seen from both the Cobbler and Glirdan.
But what Roa said about the same suspect does not necessarily prove anything - the common suspects were the three persons who were the most in the spotlight at that time, and it's only logical for the wolves (and their allies) to join accusing bandwaggons, at least a little bit.

Well, sorry, but this is extremely wolvish. "Hello folks. This and this happened. But wait - this looks strange. WHAT DO YOU THINK...?" Provoking a nowhere leading discussion, which could be as well the reason to kill Brinniel. (One wolf to another: Heya, let's kill Brinn, they'll spend half time debating about why the heck we killed her and not Sixth! - Yeah, yeah, pal, that's a good idea!) So unless anyone has any positive conclusion from why Brinn was killed, I suggest leave it and not post questions which raise debate. The only logical conclusion from someone posting a question to which he himself does not have an answer is that he is hoping someone else to look at it - and post an answer. But why not look at it myself´? You cannot trust the others' answers on that, unless you know they are innocent. So why even bring it up, unless it is a vital question, worthy very much to the village? I don't think this is the case - there are no direct evidencies like Brinniel being a powerful person capable of starting a bandwaggon against one of the wolves, so that the wolves had to kill her. Unless someone has any real evidence, I'd leave this matter.

Yes, or this is another possibility of what the wolves might have thought. I doubt we can read something significant from this one. After all, wolves are wolves and do NOT want to be found.

To the whole TGWBS-Roa-whoeverelsewasthereatthestart issue, we should bear in mind that it was logical for TGWBS to "test water" for who the wolves might be (e.g. as I said earlier, "There is probably at least one wolf in the Roa-Glirdan-Rikae triangle" - TGWBS might have thought similar way). Just to bear this one in mind.

I'll be back! Said Arnie the Senator.

Just a piece of unuseful information...

I thought of making a print of the stuff at school so that I could read it in all ease somewhere f.ex. outside after the school as it's a fine spring day and one wouldn't like to just sit at home by the computer.

But I came to other thoughts as I saw the number of pages this game would take in print. 103, to be exact. :eek:

I am just checking in but won't have time to do much.... and I still don't know what Gil is on about.... think I need to read day one.....

Hello I'm here but...
 

This is quite downright ridiculous and unfortunate enough to be funny, but I managed to catch a flu during the easter holiday and should be recovering home... And as I - as most of you probably already know - don't have a net access home, this short library visit is all I can do toDay. I'll post something more related soon...

I tried to come up with something interesting, but failed. So here's an overview of my suspicions right now, just to appear helpful. :rolleyes:


Gil-Galad ~ *shrug*

Legate of Amon Lanc ~ fairly unsuspicious. He defends tgwbs even as he was already clearly going down. A wolf might do that, to say "I told you he was innocent" afterwards, but a wolf would have done that differently in some way, I think.

Mithalwen ~ she is somewhat strange, but I get an innocent feel from her

Nogrod ~ even though I still could imagine him being evil, I doubt it. Nogrod is a Sportswolf, and he wouldn't have gone the way to pursue a lynching of xyzzy. I rather guess an innocent Nogrod who doesn't know what else to do would have.

Rikae ~ I looked over her posts again and found nothing suspicious. I'm unfamiliar with a totally unsuspicious Rikae, and therefore wary. ;)

Roa_Aoife ~ I more and more find myself thinking: If Roa is evil, she deserves to win. I really find nothing suspicious about her.

The Sixth Wizard ~ unsuspicious

Thinlómien ~ The cobbler tries to lynch her and innocent Brinn thought her "more innocent than anything". I'm sorry, but I still suspect her like I did yesterDay.

xyzzy ~ ?


Two wolves are probably left and I find everybody but Lommy innocent. Gil? Are Legate or Rikae fooling me marvelously? Or is it really Nogrod in the end? This is frustrating.