Why does Menel seem to like this strange pairing of Mac, Rikae, and I? It truly makes no sense. Yes, I did say that it was possible, even probable that they were werewolves together. Why is that conceivable? Because no one would guess that they would do something so obvious as to vote together and watch each other's backs, etc.

....Or because, as I've stated before, I'm too juicy to get rid of. If Rikae and Mac are two of the wolves, there's basically no chance I'm the third. It doesn't fit together at all, if you think about it more. They can't let one of the other top suspects die; it would be foolish.



Quite a post from Rikae back there. I do believe she's flustered, which you already knew, but I'd like to know why. Everyone seems to be catching their share of suspicions today, so why should you (or I for that matter) be any different?

Sorry, need to go through the posts again. I just keep scrolling down and responding to what catches my eye. Lots of good points made since I went to work, and I'll need a bit to sift through them all. Back in a bit. I need to prepare some tax stuff and maybe get a bit of Theraflu before my throat decides to wreak havoc on the whole campus.

That is a strange thing to say when the noose was around Mac's neck, as far as I can see, and not mine.

I am getting so fed up with this game. I'm really on the verge of quitting - I mean, what's the point? I talk and talk, and everyone ignores me. It doesn't matter how many times I've been right in the past, everyone goes along with some wacky argument someone else comes up with, even though it has no substance to it. When you lynch Macalaure and find him innocent, will you remember what I said? Oh no, I'm just blinded by my emotions; I don't know what I'm talking about. Bah -- I'm sick of it. No one listens to reason, dammit (boy am I glad to know I can get away with saying that here!)

EDIT: X'd with Sally

Aye, let the wise confer. I'll be leaving this place for the night ('tis looking much like a battlefield lately, I might add)

(OOC: I'm sorry if I'm really being too hard on you, Rikae, regardless of the fur and fangs.)

EDIT: Cross-posted with Rikae.

Personally, at the moment I'm seeing Rikae's irritation with the village as a whole to be quite innocent. However, I'm not quite sure what to make of her absolute assurance that she can spot a lycan Macalaure. The killing of Lommy left a solid trail right back to Mac, this is true. In my opinion, though, Mac's experienced enough and daring enough to attempt such a bold double-bluff.

Sally and Lily seem to be at each other's throats - in a civilized manner. Or rather, Lily is defending herself against Sally; I wonder how much of what Sally says we can actually trust? She said yesterday that her vote on me was random, yet today she says she purposely did it because it was a "safe vote", that she was sure I wouldn't get lynched. Most of that can probably be put down towards her sickness... but one does wonder, doesn't one?

I do have to say, Nogrod could be considered to be "flying under the radar" in terms of post content, if not numbers. In all the controversy I've observed today (Rikae-Mac-Nerwen, Sally-Lily, Rikae-Menel) I don't recall him being in the middle of anything, but rather on the edges.

I'll come up with more in a bit; I'm pretty sick right now, so I'm lying here in bed with nothing to do but read the thread. :) Sorry for being gone so long; I've been at rehearsal since 4:00 PM, and it's now nearly 10:00 PM.

Edit: X'd with Menel, Rikae, Gwath x2, Sally, Rikae, and Menel again.

I'm not different, but Mac is, maybe. Sorry about it, but it really gets me riled to see him being framed like this (that's how I see it), when he really made more effort to help than anyone. Maybe I am a bit touchy, where he's concerned. I can't help it... :(

EDIT: X'd with Shasta

Excuse the double-post.

Now I had been considering the idea that Mac was innocent and being misled by wolf-Rikae, but decided it better not to mention it then and see how things went. Now, though, I think it's best to say it.

I'll excuse myself for now.

EDIT: Cross posted with Rikae and Shasta.

As if it would help me as a wolf. :rolleyes:
I would just like a little credit once in a while.

Question, Menel.

Why Aganzir? If Rikae and Mac are wolves together, and Mac was about to be executed, why wait for Gwath to vote Aganzir? Why not just vote you or me? We both had one vote at that point. It seems like waiting for another execution-option, when there were at least two readily available, would have been a bit risky, time-wise, if Macwolf's life was on the line and Rikaewolf could have saved him.

Quick post, the calm before the storm.

Think on the bright side, love. YesterDay I almost got lynched because I had a high fever. :mad: Now THAT would have been another reason to be quite perturbed. Moving on then....expect a double post my friends....probably some silliness too. It is me after all.... ;)



edit just to avoid a triple post: Shasta, in the event you have the flu that's been going around (don't know what part of the country you're in, but it's been around the midwest something terrible) drag yourself down to Walmart and buy some Halls Breezers cough drops, a bit of Theraflu, and an expletive ton of Vicks. You'll be feeling back to your old self by Friday. In the event that doesn't work, simply accept my wishes that you feel better.

Double post, my apologies. I went back to get the full voting record.

Sally -> Shasta (Shasta 1)
Shasta -> Menel (Shasta 1, Menel 1)
Legate -> Sally (Sally 1, Shasta 1, Menel 1)
Aganzir -> Mac (Sally 1, Shasta 1, Menel 1, Mac 1)
Lommy -> Mac (Mac 2, Sally 1, Shasta 1, Menel 1)
Lily -> Gwath (Mac 2, Sally 1, Shasta 1, Menel 1, Gwath 1)
Gwath -> Aganzir (Mac 2, Sally 1, Shasta 1, Menel 1, Gwath 1, Aganzir 1)
Nogrod -> Sally (Mac 2, Sally 2, Shasta 1, Menel 1, Gwath 1, Aganzir 1)
Rikae -> Aganzir (Mac 2, Sally 2, Aganzir 2, Shasta 1, Menel 1, Gwath 1)
Mac -> Aganzir (Aganzir 3, Mac 2, Sally 2, Shasta 1, Menel 1, Gwath 1)

So you see, even more than myself or Menel, it would have been extremely easy for a wolfish Rikae and Mac team to slam votes on Sally and save Mac from the Gallows. Gwath was also a choice.

Say the wolves are Rikae, Mac, and Sally. Mac is close to being executed. Obviously, Rikaewolf and Macwolf are the only ones in position to save Macwolf, since Sallywolf voted early, and votes aren't retractable. So piling votes on Sally is out. Probably not a smart idea, either, to double-vote me, since that would place all three wolfish votes on the same person, leading to suspicion. That leaves Aganzir, Menel, and Gwath. Aganzir was the last of those three to even become a voting option, so why would Rikaewolf and Macwolf wait until the last second to lynch Aganzir when it would have been much safer to do the same thing to Menel or Gwath?

I apologize if my posts seem to be redundant, I just keep finding better and better ways to say what I mean.

Edit: X'd with Sally. *adopts an Okie drawl* Actually, I live in Oklahoma, that's part of the Midwest. Thank y'all frr that home remedy, I maht just trah that. ;)

Gah! Why do I keep checking this thread? It's late! I should be taking a shower and getting to bed!

(By the way, staying up late on the Downs when I should be getting sleep was assigned to Orthanc by me quite a while ago.) :rolleyes:

...Oh well. I guess I'm just too interested in the game. As I've said before, Aganzir was on both of their suspicion lists. Voting for anybody but Aganzir or Nerwen would attract suspicion for flip-flopping, as Rikae had said I was innocent, and I don't recall either her or Mac saying much about Gwath. Having two people flip-flop onto the same person would look too wolfish.

OK, I'm really leaving this time! And I'm turning off the computer too!

Rikae's distress sounds genuinely innocent to me. I can't help thinking that a wolf would be much calmer. Anyway, it won't do to let the other players avoid scrutiny. We have 10 possible wolves here, let's consider them all.

There isn't really an answer to this, as it applies to any responsibly-voting ordo. If voting for someone one suspects is wolfish, well, heaven help us.

At any rate, if, after I've gone to all this trouble for his sake, Mac turns out to be a wolf, he will be in the proverbial doghouse. :p

And now, I'm off to bed too... let the midwesterners confer...

EDIT: X'd with Gwath

Mac, all these quotes say the same thing to me; that you're making awfully certain that we know that Lommy's death makes you suspicious. Support for a double-bluff theory?

Edit: X'd with Gwath and Rikae.

(I'm never going to get to bed either, Menel.)

It's funny you should say that, Shasta, when Nogrod said the opposite (that Mac downplayed the idea of Lommy's death pointing to him.) I don't know what to make of it, just thought I'd point it out. Of course, I think he's actually responding to Nogrod in some of those.

(You won't get an answer from him soon - it's 5:30 am where he is!)

It wouldn't surprise me.

EDIT: Cross-posted with RIkae; I was replying to Shastanis

((In character altruistic post coming up. :O))

Shasta jumped nimbly down from his boulder, where he'd been standing for the past half hour. "You should get some sleep, Rikae," he said worriedly, taking her temperature. "No sense catching some bug that could float... across the sea, but still!"

Not necessarily, by any means.

Yes... but we can only lynch one at a time. However:

There's one little thing I noticed. YesterDay Nogrod said this:

But toDay he says this:

Otherwise Nogrod has sounded innocent enough– but that seems like a pretty glaring contradiction. I’d like to hear what he has to say about it.

I’ve been considering it too. Also the reverse case– i.e. an innocent Rikae and a wolvish Mac. That’s the trouble. Lynching one of them may not shed much light on the other’s rôle.

Edit: closed tags.
Edit 2: fixed wrongly-attributed quote.

Hmm. Ok.

Nerwen, one of those posts you quoted isn't mine, it's Gwath's.

Sally took a sip of her lovely raspberry tea and looked at the confused, tired, and increasingly aggravated faces around her.

"What seems to be the trouble all? Having difficulties detecting the wolves? Perhaps I can be of assistance, as my senses are slowly returning to me." She looked around and saw several people looking at Rikae with suspicious eyes, as the woman sat by Mac, making quite a nice-looking pair of suspects. Rikae stared the others down as if to tell them she had about had it with their accusations. "Isn't anyone going to listen to me? Okay fine, you asked for it...." Sally began to sing. "I can see wolfies now, the fever is gone. I can see all the arguing in my way. I can see baddies now, my eyes will (sort of) focus again. It's going to be a cold, wonderful barrow downs sort of day." The others settled into their seats and (finally) took a serious look at what Sally had to say. "That's right, little ones. I have something to say. Some wolfies and their allies thought they'd shut me up yesterDay while I was still sick, but I shall prevail, and now the furry ones will pay. Allow me to address you individually, starting with one of you who seems to be at odds with me. This is not the case, Stepmother Lily. I think you possess the potential to be furry, but at the moment you seem to be innocent, or at least to have shaved yourself quite nicely. As for the rest of you, I have brought flashcards and diagrams so that you may understand my points better, as several of you seem to have trouble following my logic. So begins my lesson...."



Shasta: I know you weren't complaining, but I want to clear this crap up once and for all and for everyone. I voted you yesterday because like I said it was a safe vote. Let me explain that to you all, just in case you missed it the last two or three times I explained it. Since I've been sick, I didn't want to risk not voting yesterDay and then have some kind of unfortunate circumstance and be unable to vote again toDay (thus risking modfire), so I had to vote in one form or another. I was not in my right mind, and so I didn't want to vote for anyone who I knew I could absentmindedly hand over to the wolves. Shasta had garnered a bit of attention, but not enough I thought (correctly mind you) to be killed, so he seemed like a good choice. I still think he's innocent.

Agan: yes, she's dead I know. I still can't get over it. Rikae, I know you're getting sick of the attention, but I just find that SO bloody wolfish. You can't deny it. I'm going to table that little incident for now, but unfortunately I just can't shake it. Sorry.

Noggie: He's been too quiet. Granted, it's really easy to get lost in all this banter and frustrated arguing, but he slips in commentary here and there and it's not even necessarily consistent, saying one thing and then endorsing the opposite. This bothers me much.

Mac and Rikae: I've talked about them, so have the others, so I'm leaving them out of my analysis, at least for the most part. Comes down to this: they are indeed defending each other and sharing suspects, but perhaps great minds just think alike? I think at this point I'm just mad that people aren't listening to poor Rikae, as she has made some good points, so as I mentioned above, I'm backing off (at least from her) for now and letting her have some time to collect more thoughts and convince me one way or the other about her role. Mac, though? I'm still leaning majorly toward wolf. I still don't like the whole "Five minutes until deadline? Plenty of time to bump off Agan! C'mon, Rikae, help me out here. Let's kill her while she's not looking." That's just the impression I'm getting. I know he mentioned her being suspicious before, but the vote itself comes out of the blue.

Menel: He rubs me the wrong way. I don't think it's because he's after me, because that normally wouldn't phase me, but he just seems to want me in a wolf trio really REALLY badly. And the one he puts me in doesn't make sense, so I'm inclined to believe that he could be of the furry persuasion.

Nerwen, Legate, Cabbie: I'm leaning innocent, if only because I can't get a read off them. I'll know more about Cabbie once he posts more stuff, and Legate and Nerwen seem confused by everything that's going on, so I'm inclined to think them innocent just based on their naivete.

Greenie: Just in case you missed it. Putting Greenie in as a third was a joke, as earlier she had made that error misjudging my post and I felt like teasing her for it. I'm leaning innocent on her too, although she seems too eager to be able to defend herself, so I may have to rethink this one.

Gwath: Poor kid's a victim of circumstance, or at least that's my view so far. I'm not saying he's innocent necessarily, but if he is he got played by the wolves when it came to yesterDay's votes.


Okay, then. That's all I have for now. I've probably left someone out, for which I apologize, but at least now no one can say that I haven't been clear.

Oh dear. You're quite right. I'll fix it. I don't know how that happened. Sorry about that. I've had a lot of distractions today.

Edit: There. Fixed.

It's midnight. The deadline (for me) is 10 AM. Normally, I would be in class, so I would have to vote now. However, today's class was cancelled, so I'm going to do my damnedest to be on again before execution. However (again), I'm so tired that I may not wake up, and if I do wake up, I may not remember to check BD. (Sorry again!)

I was going to give out my MSN here in case someone who lives in the same timezone as the host would like to poke me (actually, with the number of WW games I've played here, everyone should have it, but the only person I've used it with is Diamond18), but I didn't know if that would be rule-breaking of some sort. Could someone clarify for me?

So long as you don't discuss anything, it would be fine to ask another player to wake you up. I'd do it, but I'm 3 hours behind you and far more likely to be asleep.

I'd be happy to help you out. I have to be to work around DL time, so I'd be checking right before then and could foist you out of bed. ;)

Hmmmmm. Alrighty then. It seems as though everyone has gone to bed, or whatever it is you do at this time of day/night. I'm going to head to bed. Unless my phone dies in the night, I'll be back to vote, hopefully with Shasta in tow. :P

Night all :)

Very good analysis of Nerwen by Nogrod. I'm less convinced of her guilt today, actually, and more confused by her.

The way Rikae has been defending me further convinces me of her innocence. She wouldn't do it like that if she was a wolf. Even if we both were wolves (which some suspect) she wouldn't do it that way. There's been a lot of misunderstandings and misrepresentations in what has been said about her and my positions, and while I've grown tired of defending myself against them, I can certainly understand why it's so unsettling for Rikae.

It's worrisome that some people exclusively focus on Rikae and me. Doing it is not necessarily suspicious, but in any case it is not sensible. One of these cases would be Menel. I think his tone is very innocent-sounding, but his one-sided approach toDay isn't going to actually help us. More diversity and objectivity, please. :)

Now that McCaber has spoken more, I can say I'm not worried by him. Gwathagor is somehow confusing to me, but I don't think he's too suspicious.

Something strikes me wrong about Legate. I cannot put my finger on it yet. I think that Rikae raised some good points on him in #184 which might get overlooked because of her defensiveness.

(ps: I only read til the end of page 5 yet)

If the stone burial chamber had seemed forbidding before, it was doubly so now that Nerwen was alone in it.

"Or– am I?" She glanced quickly over her shoulder. Had she seen a flicker of movement out of the corner of her eye? A trace, perhaps, of something furry? "Just imagining things," she decided.

Shivering with more than just the cold, she continued, "Seems I'm talking to myself here... They say it's the first sign of madness. Ah well. Can't be helped."

Now, as to Rikae– I share her frustration with the way toDay has gone. We seem to have spent most of it debating possible Mac-Rikae scenarios, and not much else. The thing is, though, that much of that is due to Rikae herself, arguing on and on and on and making herself look worse and worse in the process.

The general impression I’m getting is that their main goal is simply to keep each other alive at all costs. By which I mean, more than you’d expect even from a pair of wolves.

So what’s going on? Is RL playing a part?

Is it possible that Farael has included secret roles (e.g. Lovers)?

Is Sally on to something when she suggests:

This is worth thinking about. They're certainly bold enough to try a double-bluff– and dare we ignore the fact that both Mac-voters are now dead? (But of course, it could as easily be a frame-up.)

I will look at some other people next.

Edit: X'd with Macalaure.

To clarify something in my previous post, when I say "a frame-up" I am of course talking about Lommy's death.

Are you referring to this?:

It's a thought. I'll have a look at those two.

I don't see the sense in Sally's post #201. If Rikae and I were wolves, it would make perfect sense that she's the third one. I know of course that the premise is wrong, but her argument is not valid in my opinion. Not only because of this Sally no longer gives me that innocent feeling anymore. I can't elaborate at the moment (ooc: I'll be posting from my office til the deadline).

No reason to quit. Things like that have happened to many others before, too. Frustrating, yes, but part of the game. :)

I see Shasta as innocent and sensible.


Right now I have a bunch of semi-suspects (Legate, Lily, Nerwen, Sally), but nothing solid. Unfortunately, while being around, I won't have the opportunity to look into anything more deeply...

Oh my, who is supposed to read romans like that?

Okay, following what I picked during the course of reading and noted down, so there may be a little mess in it:

I think Noggins makes good sense, only is somewhat unnecessarily picky in his analysis of Nerwen. Things like this:
Why not? I don't see anything on that and if it is not anything (and I doubt it is), then why are you mentioning it?

Good to see both Shasta and McCaber is participating more now, and they look that they are trying at least to be helpful. I don't notice anything particularly suspicious on either of them, but still, if possible, I'd like to see more input from them.

I find it hard to make any opinions on Nerwen and LG. I would like to see them posting more, as it is hard to make much about them from the little they post.

All right, now I am getting to the part about Rikae. First and foremost, Rikae, I would like to say that I don't mean anything here against you personally and so I hope you also do not/did not take anything I say/said offensively, because anyway, I don't mean it like that - I am merely stating my in-game opinions (and if I seem to hold to an opinion that is different from yours, you can simply say to yourself: "well, he obviously is totally out of his mind" and that's it).

I am not sure where Rikae took the suspicion of me from. I just wanted to write that her post #175 looks innocentish to me, and then I read this.
May I ask what exactly did I seem to twist, or what I described in slanted ways?

I said it's probable not because I'd agree with Gwath. I think his explanation is somewhat too easy, I mean, I find it somewhat improbable that wolves would say: "This one suspects us, let's kill him." It will immediately point to them. This is also what I meant when replying to Mac - and that I hope to be the final answer to your question, Mac - that the primary reason was not simply "Hullo guys, I need to get rid of someone". Speaking of it, the way Mac kept bringing up this makes me think that it is on purpose and that there may be indeed double-bluffing by saying "It would point to me".

Oh my, what's THIS? Rikae, you either totally misunderstood me, or you are simply twisting the facts! I was not saying Agan was voted for because someone thought she was the Seer. I spoke about the danger of such voting happening IF the voted person were a Seer. This was totally unrelated to the topic. What are you trying to make of it?

And Rikae, I am not "dead certain" that there is a wolf among Agan-voters, I only said I find it likely. If only statistically.

In the rules there is plainly written "no twists", so I think it's safe to assume there's nothing like that.

Okay... there has been a lot said and I can't react to everything. I hope to have time to go through everything yet, but for now, my main suspicion stays where it was with Mac and I hope to have some responses from Rikae. However, and this is what I would like to end, it has been rightly pointed out here that we should not concentrate only on several subjects, as there has been a lot going on toDay only around some people, and wolves may be hiding also elsewhere. That much I acknowledge and I hope now to heed this myself and look more deeply on those I have less idea about.

I think I'll vote somewhat early; most of my points have been said already and mornings aren't exactly the best times to analyze things.

I'm quite convinced that

++Rikae

is a Werewolf here.

This just made me grin. :D

RL is keeping me from elaborating on it. I can only say now that I don't find Legate's points too convincing. I'll say more about it tomorrow if I still live and it's still relevant.

Analysis of Legate of Amon Lanc:

Only one post on Day 1 (#108):

Expresses concern about "the strange joke-or-not-joke talkers" (Sally, Little Green and Shasta). Agrees with Aganzir that Mac's idea of lynching a "conventional" person is a bad one. Says that Rikae, Aganzir, Lommy and Gwathagor seem innocent, and that he is unsure of Mac, Menel, McCaber, Nogrod and me.

Votes Sally because her explanation of her vote for Shasta sounds wolfish.

This post comes straight after mine (#107), in which I said:

But Legate says his post crossed with mine (and others). Besides, I don’t think it took much to see Sally as suspicious at that point. I see it as not so much an easy vote as a logical one.

Day 2.

(#149)
Speculates why Lommy was killed– to leave no tracks, because ahe was dangerous to the wolves, or perhaps as a suspected Seer.

Posts a voting list for the previous Day. Says there might have been a wolf among the Aganzir voters– If so, it was probably not Gwathagor and was most likely Mac– on the other hand Sally and Rikae could be wolves together, with Rikae jumping on the Aganzir wagon.

(#155)
(Replying to Mac, who pointed out that Aganzir was already under suspicion) says that "it might have suited a wolf to raise such a last minute bandwaggon - and imagine what would've happened if for example Aganzir were a Seer." Says that he does not rule Gwathagor out, but repeats that Mac and Rikae are more likely to be wolves.

Says Mac gives him "a bad feeling" because of his comments about Lommy and Aganzir. [I agree with this.] Suggests that Lommy's death was a double-bluff.

Is still puzzled by Sally.

(#166)

(Replying to Mac, who said he did not understand his position on the Lommy kill) Says that he thinks Mac killed Lommy both to leave no tracks and to eliminate someone who suspected him. [Note: this appears to be self-contradictory and needs further explanation.]

Draws attention to the way Mac and Rikae defend each other. [Already noted by Menel and Greenie.]

Says Nogrod makes sense but that Sally makes him wonder.

Suggests that Mac, Sally and Rikae might be the wolves.

General comments: Plays it very safe indeed. This would be a good strategy for a wolf, yes– but also just a good strategy. There's really nothing there to seize on. As it stands, I'll pass Legate.

Edit: X'd with Mac, Legate, Menel and Mac again.

What? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!:D

Oh my Gawd you've been productive while I've been away!

I try to get myself level with the discussion but it may take a few moments...

Well, Rikae you must now understand how I feel sometimes during a game when there seems to be an andless flow of "points" coming from left and right and no reasonable explanation seems to work... :confused:

If Rikae and Mac indeed are wolves they are gaining my appreciation of a very-very bold and convincing play.

I do have my doubts about Mac still. My strongest point against him seems to be that the wolves needed to get rid of a possible seer (the thing both Rikae and Mac tried to downplay as the very first things when the Day broke!). Remember the seer had a dream on Night1 before the game actually started and if Lommy was right the wolves needed to check it and silence her. Mac's posts in the beginning of the Day just suited perfectly a wolf trying to clean his trail which he was forced to leave - so it's not a question whther he chose to be bold but that he couldn't aford not killing Lommy. Suggesting Agan was convenient as he was well aware Rikae suspected her.

But I'm inclined to think that Rikae sounds quite genuine indeed - or then she fakes it in a superb fashion.

But it's only Day2 and I'm still a bit reluctant to lynch Mac either because were he innocent we would suffer a great loss. I know this might be stupid. He's the one I really know why to vote at this point but it's perfectly possible we're being messed up here.

To me it depends on the choises we have toDay. But I'd love to see new ideas - or to get them myself.

One hour then. I'll try to look after a few hunches.

PS. To all you questioning my relative silence... I didn't quite manage it last night (RL) though. As I quessed.

Unfortunately, I have to vote now, as my geology lab will keep me occupied until well after the deadline. So:

++Sally

Maybe I'm starting to see ghosts (who'd be surprised, given our setting), but Nerwen's rather toothless analysis/summary of Legate gives me the bad feeling that the two could be in cahoots.