Oh, yeah, almost forgot. Speaking of my vote, it's going to have to come in the next 6 or so hours because I won't be online again before Day end. I'm going to paint and think things over.

Hmm...Nogrod's death is interesting indeed. A surprise simply because I kinda expected someone with little trails to be killed...

Anyways, where is everyone? Five hours into Day 3 and only a few posts. It's too quiet.

I took a nap and feel a bit refreshed, so I'll have some time to take a better look at people before I turn in for bed. I'll also have time to post later on, though I will still have to vote about four hours early. Meh, the deadline's just at an inconvenient time for me...

Let me join the choir. . . Nogrod does seem like an odd choise as he almost always end up getting lynched if just let alone, of course he could (like Lommy says) have gotten close to some truth. However I see little reason to belive that is the case, do you not think that it is simply because they want to confuse us? That or they might share Nogrod views about a quiet village being easy to hide in, of course there is also the possibility that it is the result of some twisted version of the Oedipus Complex and that would leave Lommy as the killer.

In short: I belive they are trying to confuse us.

Or better yet, Lommy and Legate conspired to kill him in a twisted lover's pact to get rid of the [furry] lady's father should he raise any objections....

Hey it could happen. Lynch them! Lynch them both!

(Though that may just be the paint fumes talking.)

YesterDay's voting:

Rune: ++Mith (Mith 1)
Brinn: ++Groin (Mith 1, Groin 1)
Gollum: ++Nogrod (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1)
Diamond: ++Brinn (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1, Brinn 1)
Groin: ++Lommy (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1, Brinn 1, Lommy 1)
Mith: ++Legate (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1, Brinn 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1)
Legate: ++Brinn (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 1)
Kath: ++Legate (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 2)
Gwath: ++Groin (Mith 1, Groin 2, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 2)
Lommy: ++Groin (Mith 1, Groin 3, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 2)
Nogrod: ++Legate (Mith 1, Groin 3, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 3)
Gaunt: ++Groin (Mith 1, Groin 4, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 3)

Did not vote: Shasta

Thoughts:

Not sure what to think about Rune's vote, I don't see why Mith's suspicious. I didn't see Gollum or Di give reasons behind their votes...I'd like to hear some explanation. If you could label players as suspicious by vote alone, that'd have to be Lommy (who brought Groin to the lead) and Gaunt (who came from nowhere and confirmed Groin's death).

A comment about Legate's vote:
I think you took this comment the wrong way...I know your comment wasn't serious and my response wasn't supposed to be serious either, hence the smiley face. But I don't exactly understand why you voted me...because I said go ahead and lynch me? I don't get why you would think being unconflicting is suspicious...I feel like that's something I've alway done regardless of role. This may be WW, but I try not to butt heads too much. I just think your vote for me seems faulty.

As of now...

Those who feel innocentish:
Mith
Kath
Gwath

Those who I want to hear more from:
Diamond
Gollum
Shasta (though I could also put him in the innocentish category simply because he seems to participate more than he has whenever he's not an ordo)

Those I want to take a better look at:
Lommy
Legate
Gaunt
Rune

Well I have no more time tonight, so I'm going to vote.

++Legate

I'm going to be busy for most of toDay, so I'll probably vote when I wake up in 8 hours or so.

All right, I am around at last, and I will probably have chance to be around for the rest of the Day. I have read through yesterDay, but maybe I should re-read again in the light of Nogrod's death. To be honest, at one moment I thought he could be a Wolf - but not to a very strong point. Anyway...

I am now starting to wonder about Gollum, because if he is one of the baddies, I can well imagine him killing Nogrod. Depending who would be the other person, of course, but still...
I could possibly imagine a Gollum-Wolf posting this, too, like "giving his hands away from the thing". Anyway, I think I could put Gollum on my suspicion list, and I'm going to observe him - I'll take a look at his older posts, too; there is not much of them (or they are not long), to get some better idea about him.

Now when it comes to the reasons for his kill, yes, I think so. Also, when mentioning Rune, I don't think he would be the one to kill Nog like that in this situation.

Well honestly, I hope nobody takes that seriously here - although he brought this theory up so many times... hmm... possibly this may have been understood as a Seerish hint? However in that case, the likely reason of his kill would have been to frame you and me :) Which - now smileys aside - is not as funny idea.

For the reasons... I am not really sure, but the most logical view of mine would be that the killers are indeed some quiet-ish people who decided to get rid of him. If it were Gollum, as I said above, I could imagine that - depending just whether he'd convince the other person to pick Nogrod as well. I am not sure about the idea of seerishness, but it is possible (cf. above), as well as the idea of creating confusion. It may as well be that it is several or all of these reasons for a kill at once.

Nope, I voted you because of the other reasons I stated earlier in my posts, and many times, about your "un-conflicty behaviour" and such. I did not give much weight to that "lynch me" comment, I merely quoted it, and it did not have that much to do with the choice to vote you itself.

Well, yes, all in all, I would probably be most inclined to agree with the idea of confusing being the aim of the baddies after all. That's not to say, as have written above, that it can't be connected with several other reasons for picking Nog.

*Rolleyes...*

But, then, anyway - would you please care to explain your vote, Diamond? Except for "lynch them", I saw no particular reason for the vote, and sure what you said was not meant as serious reason for vote? Or was it?

That is fine, it is not like I suspected her more than you anyways so maybe I should have voted differently. Maybe it is just the style that Mith plays that confuses me, she pops up a few times and with some small posts which are mostly uncontrovertial or at least in my view not really creating much of disciution. Anyways I will not be voting for her again today, that would not be fair unless somehthing major happens.
If you do not see why unconflicting is suspicious then I can understand why you do not understand me, I think it is relative well known tactic for the evil doers to be seen and yet stay clear of too many enemies. An ordo on the other hand is a bit more free and not carring, of course non of us wants to get lynched, but I think you are even more afraid of it if you are evil.

Anyways I think Legate's vote was reasonable.

Gollum Gollum...

Here be something from his postsssiess. Despite the fact of being a newbie, I cannot simply let go that he has quite bad habit of not saying almost anything at all. His last post yesterDay:

Okay, no time, no explanation, fine. But toDay his first post:

Great, it makes perfect sense that Gollum does not suspect Nogrod anymore (of course ;) ) but, wouldn't he care to say what was his reason to vote Nogrod, since he didn't give it yesterDay? At least now then.

Besides that, he mentions technically just three people he suspected: me, Lommy, Nogrod. And Groin, although that is just a mention. Well, in general, his posts are not saying much.

Gollum, I know this is your first game, so okay if you are getting yourself into it, but if you perhaps could elaborate at least a little what do you think about others, too, respectively, what do you think even about those you named, because even that is very little beyond "I suspect him".

I don't see what is so confusing Rune. I have job with near standard office hours. At the time you voted for me I had been either asleep or at work since the start of play other than for a short time at lunch. Where was the scope for making more than a check in post. Really you are most unreasonable.

I believe either Lommie or Legate and probably both are up to no good. If Lommie were a traitor it makes sense that she would want Nogrod out of the way.

So what if you have work thos hours? I had to vote at that time and then I cannot start taking into account when everybody is working, that would leave me with only students to vote for. . . how is that fair?
My vote was based on what I had seen until then and is that not what we are supposed to do?

You generalised from one post and say it is not personal? I am not saying don't vote for me but don't make out that my behaviour is odd whane it is the only way I could behave. It really seem vindictive. Why not vote for me again now and have done with it?

Actually, in general, I think making the decisive votes is more innocentish than wolvish in most cases. Wolves don't want the responsibility and spotlight that come with the decisive vote. The case is totally different, though, if a fellow of theirs is under a threat.

In the light of my current knowledge, I don't think there are any particularily suspcious votes yesterDay. Ironically, the one that looks the most suspicious to me is Groin's. :rolleyes:

Yes, but I don't consider it likely. He suspicions were half-joking, I can't see anyone calculating on people to believe we two would be that jumpy. Besides whom Nogrod really suspected was Kath. But I don't think the kill points at her, nor do I think it was done in order to frame her: Nogrod suspected her so clearly because of what she said. (Even though, now I'm wondering... could they have read it so that he had dreamt of Kath and was just waiting for an opportunity to accuse her? I think I'll have a look at that later...)

I'm pretty lost with the wolves' identities right now. Brinn keeps looking a little fishy, but not much more than that.


edit: xed with Mithx2 and Rune

In case I can't make it back

++ Legate of Amon Lanc.

There is 2 things in this:

1. Of course one could have acted differently, maybe not made more posts, but the content of them could have been different. There is not only 1 way to do things, not that you should change it because of me. . . just accept that it left me a feeling of you trying to keep out of the light.

2. I my self tell about my RL commitments because I think it is only fair to the other players in the game, but I cannot expect them to give me special treatment even if I have a good reason. As players we have too look at what happens in the game and let that be the main factor for our decitions.

EDIT: Cross Posted With Mith

Talking about RL commitment. . .

I have to leave for my baby-brothers birthday party now, but I will be back before deadline and I really hope that more will have shown up at that time and hopefully it is also the time where people will do their voting.

I am pretty open about who to vote for today as long as a good case is presented, there have already been voiced suspicions against Brinn and Gollum and I can follow both. I did not suspect Gollum earlier, but that is probably because I simply did not notice him at all.

I could imagine Legate and Lommy being candidates and even though I will not write them off my list completely (of lynch candidates) I am not too thrilled about voting for either today.

People I am quite confident I will not vote for today:

Mith - I have voted for her two times now and even though I stand by my decision I think it would be unwise to vote for her at this point. . . For one she is gennerally regarded as innocent so it would be a waste of a vote, secondly it would not leave much of a pattern for people to analyse should I get killed. oh and also: It is very easy to become to focused on one individual and thus become blind to what others do, so yeah I do not think it would be wise to vote for her again today.

Kath - I really like Kath as a player. . .of course there are limmits to how long I can use this as an excuse for not suspecting her.
Maybe I should add Gaunt to that list.

The interaction between Lommy and Nogrod at the end of the Day was rather amusing, though I didn't think much of his theory while reading it. But in light his death, I took a look at the interaction between Lommy and Legate myself and I can't help but wonder if there's some truth to this theory...or something similar. I suppose it's possible the wolves chose Nogrod to frame the two, but I somehow doubt it...or at least framing the two L's wouldn't be the only reason. A double bluff is possible too...I know Lommy and Legate are capable of it.

Being unconflicting can be a wolf tactic, I agree, but it doesn't necessarily mean that someone who is unconflicting is a wolf. Like I said, I think it's a style I tend to use regardless of my role...at least at the beginning of the game. I'm a careful poster...that's part of my personality. But it doesn't mean I'm a wolf. So I don't think being unconflicting is a good enough reason alone.

I am sorry that I don't have more time to consider, but I have to catch a train into Chicago, and I won't be back until this evening (RL).

Well: toDay, I am going to go with Rune, because, as much as I think that Legate's suspicion of Brinniel is unfounded, I find Rune's echoing of Legate more suspicious.

++Rune

Rune: Wants me lynched, which is quite typical of him. In fact, if he didn't suspect me, I think I'd be disappointed. I'm surprised he hasn't voted me yet, though surely I can expect it toDay. :p In turn, I'm always tempted to vote him. I think it's his playing style that sets me off...but then whenever I suspect him he turns out innocent. I don't like to repeat mistakes, so I won't be too quick to suspect...though I do want to watch him carefully.

Gaunt: YesterDay he did talk about Nogrod and Groin, though while he seemed to suspect Noggie more, he voted Groin. I'm not sure what to think of that. He hasn't shown up yet toDay, and I would like to hear more from him.

Lommy: While her intentions don't feel like good ones, they don't seem furry. I'm still convinced there's something cobblerish about her...so maybe she is a cobbler character, or perhaps Nogrod's theory is accurate after all...

Legate: I still don't like his reasons behind suspecting me...and now I don't like his reasons for suspecting Gollum. Yes, Gollum hasn't been saying much and as much as I would like him to, I think it's more newbie behaviour than anything. Gollum seems like the type of newbie who is perhaps a bit too timid to dive in and become involved on the same scale that the rest of us are. While his comment, "Wow! This comes as a complete surprise! This completely alters my view on Nogrod" may look wolfish to us, I think he wrote down his first thought unaware about what kind of phrases might sound fishy. Typical newbie mistake. Legate, you seem to be building up a case against Gollum and it just feels fabricated to me.

Of course being unconflicting by itself does not mean someone is guilty. But then, I would say that being unconflicting all the time implies something unnatural going on - like a programmed behavior, which is something a Wolf may use to his advantage. Anyway, I also don't think your behavior in general is unconflicting, not the same way as it was this game.

Okay, now you are once again either misunderstanding or misinterpretating what I meant. See, my main point was not that because he said it, he is a wolf, and you won't find it there in my posts. At first when I saw this quote, I was answering myself the question whether he could post that if he were a Wolf. That's what I said in my first post today here. Then, when I was going through his posts, I was again, not basing anything on what he said there per se, but I was pointing out that he did not say his reasons for voting Nog. Why? Yesterday, he said "no time to explain" and just voted. Today he shows up, and all he says is "wow, this is a surprise". That was the point.

Okay, now. I shall be around, and hopefully also somebody else will show up; although I presume that as usual, people will start crowding around before the DL. Where are these Kaths and Gaunts and such? I would like to see them post toDay, too. For now, I am left to ponder my inclinations to vote - Brinn now looks fisher to me still.

While it's frustrating when someone doesn't explain their reason for voting someone, but I don't think it has much meaning behind it. In previous games, players have been lynched because they didn't explain their vote and they have all turned out innocent. If anything, I would think a person who doesn't explain their vote is more likely innocent because why would a wolf want to draw attention to themself simply by not giving an explanation?

Btw, where is everyone? Posting has gone particularly slow toDay. Anyways, I'm gonna have to vote fairly soon...

Oh My!

I am gone for hours and hours and when I return only 5 posts have been made, that is pathetic! Is Nogrod really that essential to keep the wheels turning?

And to think I felt bad about leaving you for that long, now I am glad I did otherwise it would have been a very frustrating day for me.

I see that Gwath voted for me. . .well, I guess he is kind of right, but I must point out that I also suspected Brinn yesterday. I guess my main problem is that I have seen nothing that makes me heavily suspect anybody, this is why I am stuck with suspects as Brinn where the main reason I suspect her is because of her playing style and not an actual action.

So yeah I do not have any major cases and that I might not have been the first to voice the conserns, but I think they have as much merit as most what most of you guys have come up with.

A wolf with a bad reason for his vote, or whatever, simply a wolf who does not want to explain his vote - because wolves basically never have honest reasons for their votes - may want to create silence around his vote and hope for it to be forgotten, so that he does not put himself in unnecessary risk. As I said, it's not an argument per se, and I would prefer anyway Gollum himself, and not you, to say something to it.

And as for what you say about players who have been lynched for not stating their vote and turned out innocent, yes, why not. But the same you can say there were also players who have not been lynched despite that and turned out to be wolves. So, this is sure no argument to use.

Anyway, yes, I would prefer others to appear around here, too. DL is nearing slowly, and it is too quiet here.

EDIT: x-ed with Rune. Yes sir, I agree with your second line (but please use trademark when using MY quote, okay? ;) )

Is it not like this with most arguments in ww, that they are two edged.

Yes, you are right. But "players have been lynched for not explaining their vote and turned out innocent" is in my point of view the same as saying "players have been lynched for voting Joe and turned out innocent", it's something too general. Anyway, let me say, and I hope to make it clear by this once and for all, this is all getting away still from the point of why I said that. The point was not "he did not state why he voted, lynch him!" The point was: "Let him state reasons for his vote." Because when somebody says his reasons for voting, the others may conclude something from it: Okay, this reasoning looks fishy, etc. I do not want anything else than to wait for Gollum to say that. Yet still I considered it important to point out also that the behavior itself is weird: say "I don't have time to tell my reasons for voting now", one expects in the next post "I didn't have time to say the reasons back then, but now I will tell you, here they are", and that this can be hoping for it to be forgotten, especially now that the person voted for is dead.

It annoyed me that I had no solid cases against anyone so I started reading some of the older posts, you know, to see if I could find anything.

I was actually focusing on Legate's posts, but then I had a look at a post of Lommy's and it made me wonder.

It was very defensive, but of course that does not have to mean anything as we all get defensive if we feel threatened enough. It is just the fact that she so insisting that she behaves as she always does that makes me think: It may be that she is a wolf trying very hard to play as she always does and therefor is very defensive about it and then she uses a classic counter attack stating that it is very furry to say anything sugesting she has been acting odd.

Of course she could simply be an ordo convinced that she is playing as she always does. . . anyways it just made me think.

EDIT: Cross Posted With Legate

Hello. . . Is there anybody out there?

Anyways I will have to soon as work is calling, I am not feelig too well so hopefully they will send me home, but I cannot count on that.

Hmm... well, it of course may be either way, but then I think actually this assumption does not sound that unlikely. If Lommy were a wolf, I think this slight defensive-behaviour "I have not done anything out of the ordinary" could fit her.

Maybe I could take a look at some older things too, hoping that somebody will show up meanwhile...

EDIT: x-ed with Rune

I'm here. I found out I can make it for the deadline after all (hurray), but I need to run an errand first. I don't think it'll take long so I'll be back in hopefully less than an hour.

I really cannot figure out what to make of you Legate. . .

You seem very helpful and is a person I hope will post, but at times I get the feeling you are trying to hide in the spot-light. In fact I think the case you made against Samwise fit your self very well (although I cannot remember if you made any safe vote).

One could almost say that the reason I am uneasy about you is because I have not really suspected you, it kind feels like I am being tricked into beliving in your innocens.

I will vote within 10 min. but I do not know for whom yet. . . I am quite nervous as there is a possibility that I my self will get lynched and so it would be nice to stick around until deadline.

The safe vote for me right now would be Legate, because that would make it likely that I my self will survive, but I am not sure that it is actually Legate I want to lynch today.

Two things caught my attention now that I came here and read what's happened while I've been away. One, it's been awfully quiet today.

Two, we have been focused on just a few villagers today. I, Brinn, Rune, Legate, Gollum and Mith have been talked about. Not much about Di or Shasta or Gaunt or Gwath or Kath. Mostly it's just that those who have been around have been talked about and the ones who've been absent have slipped under the radar. This worries me. All the louder players accuse each other while the quiet ones waltz through the game happily. Now, I'm not saying anything as silly as that there are no wolves among the loudmouths or that the quiet ones are evil, but I think we're really doing a mistake by focusing only on half of the village and letting the other half hang around in the comfortability zone. It's very probable that there are baddies hiding there - I think it's very unlikely that all the evil-doers are found from the bunch that has been on the spotlight toDay.

I'm especially concerned about Gwath and Kath, because they strike me as suspicious-ish (I'd like to look through their posts to see what is it actually that makes them fishy to me), but I'm worried that if Di or Shasta is a wolf (or both of them :eek: ), they will slip through totally unnoticed. I'm not that worried about the spotlight not being on Gaunt because I think he looks rather innocent at the moment.

And just to add, I think Brinn has been posting more innocently toDay than before. She sounds more genuine. But I'm still unsure and suspect her a little.

Unless I've cross-posted with something very interesting, I'm now going to have a quick (it's quite near the deadline... eek) look at Gwath and Kath.


edit: xed with Legate, Brinn and Rune

We could vote Gwath. . .

I would like Kath to stay onboard still. . .

Okay here it goes will vote for Lommy, but I am really torn between her Legate, Brin and Gwath.

++Thinlómien

Gwath
- is hiding in the shadows, more silent than usual (I know his RL hurries/timetables, but still...)
- Day1 vote rather odd - jumps on a random vote on a person who hasn't seemingly given too much reason to suspect herself
- gives adistant and a little fishy feel
+ his arguments against me sound innocent
+ is not jumpy at all unlike the Gwath-wolves I've known
+ his Groin-vote seems innocentish, as does his vote for Rune

Kath
- Day1 vote very safe and easy
- apologises her vote ;) (ok sorry, had to say that because she wrongly used it against me once :D)
- too helpful (I know she always is, but this time she's almost overdoing it, analysing pretty much everything - as if she couldn't otherwise think of anything to say, also not-that-useful stuff, like what got Samwise lynched)
- tone slightly insincere
- like Nogrod says, her Kitanna-analysis is a little weird (an innocent would probably have looked at things a bit more carefully because she needs to find out stuff, not just fake that she's doing so)
+ Samwise-analysis sounds genuine and innocentishly smart
+ not jumpy
+ seems like her normal self (although, I'm not sure if that speaks for her innocence at all... she's quite good at bluffing)

Ok, I didn't become much wiser. I still suspect them both a little, but Kath more than Gwath. I'd very much like to hear more of both of them. I'm hopeful that Kath will appear before the DL...

It's less than 40 minutes until the deadline and no one posted anything in the last half an hour... weird... where are you all? Hiding?

Great! Seems at least some posting is gearing up - now I only hope more people appear to post, and now, and not fifteen minutes before the DL... :rolleyes:

That's quite connected topic, too, and I would second this now. Actually, I have just skimmed through the earlier Days once again (it's called "cursoric reading"), if there are any particular things which would now bring my attention, especially concerning those who have slipped under my radar this far (i.e. Mith, Gwath, Kath, Di, Gaunt...). From those, I got a complex-ish picture of Gaunt as innocent-looking. Besides that, it's either grey zone (Gwathagor, and also Kath, whom I besides that dislike just because of her style of posting, which I a) can never decipher whether being wolfy or innocent, b) am just annoyed with because the posts appear just once a Day, but they are so long :p ;) ) or too little to chew (Di), or too chaotic (Mithalwen).

(Actually to be honest, the main feeling that it gave me now is just horrible annoyance with the progress of this game: Nogrod was right, half of the players just stops by to post once a Day and that's it... I mean come on, what kind of a game is this supposed to be...)

EDIT: x-ed since Rune

I'm back. The errand took longer than I planned. I meant to only buy fruit but I got caught up in a peace rally. Then after awhile I realised I had to hurry and get back so that I could lynch a werewolf. :p

Anyways, I still need to read up. Just checking in...

Hey yes, what, I mean come on, is there nobody posting? It's 30 to DL...

Edit: x-ed with Brinn. Well...

I'll have something here in a minute...

I don't really like the current voting situation. I wouldn't like to vote either Rune or Legate, and I obviously won't be voting myself.

edit: xed with Gollum