Just a quick note to say that I find this

extremely amusing. :D

I live to serve, oh modly one.

:)




Also, silly me, I just saw/remembered that Lottie voted for Eomer. If they were packmates, she'd be headdesking pretty hard right now. I'm fairly certain she wouldn't wolf-on-wolf at that stage, not when Wilwa was such a certain lynch. There'd be no reason for it and I can't see Lottie doing it anyway.



Also also, quick announcement. I'll be gone the last third or so of the Day, which means I'll be voting somewhere in the next 12-14 hours. Sorry for any inconvenience, etc., etc., but I'm not sure I'll be back and I want to keep my modfire-less record fully intact. :D

Wilwa's been known to make some rather rash statements in the heat of the moment before, though. I mean last game she (then a wolf) went on about how nobody should reveal because it would make it too easy for the village.

About Greenie and skip: I can hardly judge them for voting the same way I did, but I don't like the fact that neither of them seemed to pay attention to my reservations.

Not "often". Always. But they didn't kill him on Night 2 anyway.

Up to a point. If the wolves thought he'd dreamed EW, then he couldn't have dreamed Fea too, could he?

Not just a trailless kill, if he was– the fact that he'd voted EW on Day One gives the pack a reason to kill him, regardless of anything else.

Quite possibly. However his "vendetta" (if that's what it was) against the EW voters really would be foolhardy for a wolf– more so than anything Wilwa did.

Or it could be a double bluff. No one would expect a wolf to be that obvious, so his behavior, and him, are written off. Is Eomer known for being tricksy?

As an ordo or gifted he's generally pretty straight forward. Can't recall what he's like as a wolf, actually. I don't think he's been one for ages.

All right, I'm warning you all that I have to vote ridiculously early toDay, like in an hour or so.

I think someone already pointed this out, but at least it seems I'm not the only one who found this quote more than slightly cobblerish.
Actually more than the normal you this reminds me of somebody else I know.. :rolleyes: Actually, in the light of Boro's death and what Agan said toDay about having got ranger vibes from him, what on earth is this about?
Sally's decided indecisiveness about Eomer in this post looks a bit wolf-on-wolf-y to me. Or just wolvish.
This is a very interesting point, actually. Agan explained herself pretty well (I don't have the exact quote right now), and now I'm flip-flopping between an innocent and sharp Sally and an evil Agan wriggling out of the accusation, and an innocent Agan and a Sallywolf trying to turn the suspicion from herself to Agan. Ouch. I don't know. But at any rate, that was a very interesting exchange.
Now while I know she explained that this one was due to misinterpreting the narration, it still got me thinking.. Unless she is bluffing to have misinterpreted the narration (which, I think, is not something she'd do), this makes her look pretty good. Because if an Aganwolf would have thought the narration pointed to one of her pack being protected by the ranger, she wouldn't exactly point it out and encourage people to check who it was, would she?
Loved that argument. That is all. :D
I don't have time to go and check it right now so I ask: wouldn't voting for a packmate be an especially good idea if an innocent was a certain lynch?

Maybe, but if so, that would incriminate Eomer's voting for you more than my voting for Eomer. When Eomer voted for you, there was no support for that lynch. When I voted for Eomer, there was considerable support for his lynch. He would've been lynched if Pitchie and Sally hadn't both missed the DL.

Bit disappointed I'll hardly be here at all today, because it's obvious that I'd get plenty of action were I to stay. Lack of men in the village, and all that. :p

It would be futile to counter every point because the village is getting smaller and I know that everyone - including me - can look like a wolf. (Possibly not Fea, though; I tend to think Boro's slaying makes her look even better than she already did. The one person I feel pretty confident is innocent.)

I will, however, say to Sally that my vote for Greenie was certainly not 'throwaway', or 'random', or 'pointless'. I already had an uneasy feeling about her, and as explained just before voting I felt that she was trying to narrow the voting choice for the day down to Wilwa and Loslote. There were more votes still to come that day (I actually thought we were coming up to deadline and that more posters would be there any moment) so I think it was entirely reasonable and honest to vote for Green, as I was undecided about Wilwa/Loslote.

I will be back in a hour or two to give my thoughts on everyone, and then vote. Won't make it back afterwards as off on a jaunt to Amsterdam with a certain other Barrow-Downer (of impeccable repute).

There are two wolves among the following eight.

I don't think are wolves:
skip - I'm inclined to believe he's either innocent or a cobbler, both because of his behaviour and Boro's death.
Fea - Boro's death does point to her innocence, and while I don't trust her entirely I won't worry about her right now.
Agan - Her suggestion about the narration (that I talked about in my previous post) makes me think she's innocent.

I guess the wolves are then among:
Nerwen - Too smooth for me to say anything, could be either and I would never know.
Pitch - No idea at all! I know I'm rubbish at reading him, but I think I should give it a try and analyse him at some point. I don't have the time now. I'm kind of worried about how he slips by without anyone paying much attention to him even though he participates.
Sally - Worries me. Her point against Agan (yesterDay, the thing about why Agan voted her and not Elf-Wolf) looks like a wolf trying to turn the suspicion away from her furry self; her indecisiveness on Eomer looks like wolf-on-wolf or just wolf trying to keep their nose clean. She will probably get my vote toDay.
Lottie - Confuses me way too much right now. Half the stuff she does makes me think "Wolf!", the other half "Innocent!"
Eomer - I don't have that much on him, actually. Except that if Sally is a wolf I might think that he is one, as well.

All right, going for the best I've got..

++ Sally

Reasons in my previous post. Now I've got to dash.

No, but he clearly voted for EW only because he wanted to save Fea.

:)

The ranger vibes were only one single comment, and even that wasn't very serious, it just made me stop and think for a while.
But heck. I have no idea, either, what that comment is about. I remember it had something to do with the gifted vibes, and something with his jumpiness, but that's about as far as I can retrace my thought process.

I don't need to bluff when it's 4am and I've had a few drinks. ;) But you're right, I wouldn't lie about misreading something.

But, Lottie, did you notice that Sally's reasoning is completely the other way round? She regards Wilwa as having been doomed by the time you voted, and argues from that that your vote on Eomer couldn't have been wolf-on-wolf:

So, that really doesn't make that much sense. She's talking as though wolf-on-wolf is something you only do when your packmate's clearly for it anyway– but she ought to know that's not so.

Thoughts on the villagers
 

Nerwen - could go either way. I believe Greenie's vote for Wilwa looks way dodgier than Nerwen's.

Pitch - voted for me but I think he was thinking along my lines .i.e. didn't want to vote Wilwa or Loslote. Understandable, maybe a bit bandwaggony, but inclined to say innocent.

Sally - hard to be objective because I think she's being unfair on me and my vote for Greenie. It also looks a bit like she's feeling the pressure of being suspected.

Lottie - gave a pretty big gifted hint yesterday but is still alive. Pretty suspicious of her now.

Greenie - still suspicious of her. She's very smooth, and her post yesterday where she seemed to want to narrow it down to Wilwa and Loslote, after both of them had received a vote, strikes me as manipulative.

skip - could be going over my head but good chance that he's innocent.

Fea - probably innocent.

Agan - surprisingly, I don't find her very suspicious. She's taking way, way too much for one thing (despite claiming that she's busy) and it looks to me like she's being really open.

Eomer - probably makes no sense.

++A LITTLE GREEN

If Greenie's innocent, and obviously depending on what happens in the night, I'd kill Loslote tomorrow.

Sally is my other most suspicious person.

See you. :)

I have to go now, and my opinions haven't really changed much because I haven't had time to, well, change them.

++skip

I'll have to do some serious thinking before being able to determine who in this bunch is a wolf, and I don't really suspect skip of wolvery but he looks like a very possible cobbler to me (for reasons I've mentioned in my previous posts). It's now two wolves & the cobbler against six villagers, and despite the fact that they can't be sure of each other's identities, lynching the cobbler wouldn't do any harm.

See you (hopefully) some time toMorrow.

I'm here and gonna give this an hour or so, reading back to try to make some sense of what's been happening. Not too happy about how yesterDay and Night unfolded...

Not so happy about this vote. If you think I'm a wolf, fair enough, but a vote on solely the account of some flimsy cobblery accusation seems suspect.

I mean. like Agan says, the cobbler has no way of knowing the identity of the wolves at the moment. Doesn't this mean that cobbler can just as easily do the wolves harm as he/she can be of help to them, really? In the light of this, going for the cobbler when there are two wolves out there seems odd. But as much as I'd like to quarrel with Agan about this, it looks like she's gone for the Day.

Okay, will do some reading now...

Indeed, it might be argued that if you're the cobbler we should certainly keep you around.;)
However–
It's not really that odd, if you've got no idea who else to vote– cobblers who survive into the endgame are very dangerous, because then the wolves can reveal openly, and they all vote together.

It is also true, of course, that going after "the cobbler" can be a lupine excuse for failure to hunt wolves.

It might...
True that. Still I'd argue that would be more of a concern for the wolves trying to make sure they don't accidentally kill the cobbler, then a concern for the village trying to actively hunt down the cobbler.

No, because there were people who suspected Eomer. Thus, voting him could (and in fact did) put up fairly high on the potential lynch list very quickly. At least four people had previously said that they suspected, didn't trust, etc. Eomer. If Lottie is his packmate and she knows there is a possibility that people will jump onto her vote, would she really vote for her packmate, especially when she could just sit still and wait for Wilwa to die? I don't think so.

I could be wrong, of course, but I don't see Lottie making that move at that time.

I think this is interesting, considering that before she wasn't sure about whether I was wolf hunting or a wolf myself, and now she seems certain that I was deflecting. She seems to have just magically made the decision just so she can vote me with a semi-clear conscience and have a good "case" on me. Bwah?


*blinks* Heh. It's been a while since I've been a regular ordo. I forgot how much I focus on making sure people suspect wolves rather than me. I do so hate for people to waste their time on frivolous accusations. Then again, at this point I'm thinking Greenie's likely a wolf, so that's comforting. :p


EDIT: x'd with Skip

Yes, but what I'm saying is that the cobbler can make an acceptable fallback lynch if you're not sure who else to vote. (Wolves, as I also said, may also hunt the cobbler to look useful.)

EDIT:X'd with Sally.

Now this is interesting....

How could he possibly know that? Skip, care to explain?

I can't decide if he's going by statistics or actual knowledge. *ponders*




A list, I see, a list indeed, but first a few thoughts.

Agan and Greenie's cases on me make no sense, Greenie's especially. While before I had thought Eomer a possible top suspect, Agan seemed to hop onto me quite suddenly, and since I started suspecting her she's pressed harder. A possible panicked wolf? Greenie, however, looks a wolf based on most of her behavior. Her vote for Wilwa (and then for me, when she had said in a closely previous post that she was so far undecided on me) makes me extremely worried.

I think that either Eomer or Greenie HAS to be a wolf, because while I don't think them being wolves together is an option any longer, I think they're both rather independently evil, Greenie especially. I can't get a feel on who Agan's pack would be, which makes me think that perhaps she's not a wolf after all, but she, too, feels furry and opportunistic. Perhaps a Finnish pack? I'm not sure.

Greenie's #206 is the most worrisome post for me. She gives the possibility both of me catching Agan and me trying to set her up, and then quickly seems to decide that I must be the evil one in the situation. Quick hop of logic there.


Basically my main suspects are Greenie and Eomer, because I'm almost certain that one of them is evil, and Agan as third place. Skip too depending on how he answers my question above.


EDIT: x'd with Nerwen.

Okay, looking at how the voting and discussion unfolded yesterDay there is one thing that makes me stop to wonder.

The whole thing just sort of died out after Wilwa got her third vote (by me, terribly sorry about that!), didn't it? Here's how it went down:

Wilwa votes for Loslote

Nerwen votes for Wilwa

Boromir votes for Sally

Green votes for Wilwa (2)

skip votes for Wilwa (3)

Now we know that Wilwa and Boro were innocent and their motivations can't be mistrusted. Me, Nerwen and Greenie vote for Wilwa rather early, for reasons that did turn out to be faulty, but were rather clearly expressed early on. Then nothing really happened up until the DL.

Thing is, with the knowledge that Wilwa was an ordo, any wolves left to vote at that point would have been perfectly happy just sit back and waiver back and forth in indecision, wouldn't they? Their hands clean and all that.

Now I'm not saying that Nerwen and Greenie are necessarily innocent, but there's just something about the situation that makes me think that there were no wolves among the Wilwa-voters. Could be wrong, of course, yet:

Yes indeed. Why did you?

Yes. Elf was a wolf, remember?

All right, that makes more sense.

EDIT:X'd with Sally and Skip.

Wait a minute....wait a minute....*looks* Oh bother. I'm terribly sorry. I'd been page hopping and for some reason I thought that was on Day Two, not Day One. :o


Never mind then....:rolleyes:

Yes, but she did give a reason for that in the same post:
EDIT:X'd with Sally.

Do you know, I made the same mistake? For a moment I thought I'd been privileged to witness one of the great wolf-slips of all time. But alas!

She would if she thought it wouldn't point back to her or her packmate. In fact, it woud be a wise move, because people would do two predictable things....

1. Waste time checking through Boro's posts for hints that may not even exist.

2. Follow up on those hints by voting people he clearly trusted/might have protected, thus not voting for Agan or her partner.



I'm not saying it's the case, I'm just saying that it would be a clever move. And, as we both know from past pack experience, Agan is a very clever wolf.

Oh good, it's not just me. Heh.


And I know, right?!?! *is disappointed* :(

Oh yes, she might have, indeed. I'm not putting forward Greenie's argument because I agree with it, because I don't, but to point that she did give a reason for suspecting you rather than Agan.

Oh don't worry, I get that. I just realized that Agan would totally do that, and wanted to put it forward to people who may not have thought of it.


I have to vote in like two hours. For now, however, I need to get ready to go....erm, where I'm going today (o_O) so I'll be gone for a bit.

Well it's that time, crazy kids. I have to vote, and it's far too quiet.

++Greenie


If she isn't a wolf, then Eomer almost certainly is. However, I'm not sure if I'll be back before DL and she's marginally more suspicious to me right now, so yeah.


Play nice while I'm away, kids. And don't forget....

You gotta find the Bad Wolf
Make a case for demise
Type your votee's name in
And press the plus key twice
But it's the highlight tag that really seals their doom,
Let's kill another wolf soon!

Okay, still working on my theory that both remaining wolves were still to vote when Wilwa got her third vote.

That leaves Eomer, Lottie, Fea, Agan, Pitch and Sally.

Starting with Eomer who did end up voting for Greenie soon after me. I'm not entirely happy about this one-man crusade, since it can be seen as a bit of a throwaway, and I am divided about his lupine credentials.

Lottie voted for Eomer for pretty suspect reasons. It was mostly mine and his comments about her alterered playing-style that did it I think. She also made a fairly obvious gifted hint, as someone else pointed out, yet lived through the night. On the other hand, her decisive role in killing off Wolf-warrior speaks for her.

Fea didn't vote which isn't too reassuring, but I'm not overly worried about her at this point.

Agan voted Eomer and set him up as a serious alternative for the lynch. I sort of like the decisiveness about that. Although I think that Agan is acting rather cobblerish too, bringing up very minor points, making hens out of feathers in a somewhat disturbing manner. I know this might sound like throwing the accusation right back, but well, there you go.

Then Pitch throws out a late vote for Eomer, which would've killed him had it come on time. Was that really an accident? Obviously one wonders now about the identity of Eomer. A good scenario for the wolves, if Eomer is innocent, surely?

And then there's Sally, claiming she missed the DL because of her shoddy internet connection. I'm very concerned about Sally actually. If you are still around, who did you mean to vote for?

Vote tally:

Greenie --> Sally

Eomer --> Greenie

Aganzir --> skip

Sally --> Greenie (2)

I don't at all care how suspicious it makes me look to not be around all Day and then just spontaneo-vote for somebody I've not expressed feelings about. Particularly since I'm not going to bother trying to make myself look good by giving you a bunch of bogus reasons as to why this doesn't look suspicious. Of course it does, and I'd be lying if I was like, "No, really, it's completely legitimate to just show up and vote for somebody without giving any good reason."

++Skip

I would much rather see him go than Greenie. If I'm wrong, well, my bad. And if I'm right, I hope the wolves kill me so the seer can get another night.

And more importantly, I hope the seer's dream targets are all still alive so that we get a few known innocents instead of just one or none.

Oh, hello Fea! :)

Shame on you though.

Gotta go now and since I don't know whether I'll be back before DL:

++Sally

Interesting choice of Night-kill. If Boro was killed because he looked gifted to the wolves, I'd guess he would have seemed more seerish than rangerish - he didn't talk about a lot of people, but was quite explicit and decided about who he didn't want to see lynched, so maybe they thought he was protecting a dreamed innocent.

And wilwa turned out an ordo - which means we have our first bandwagon against a known innocent to analyze. I'll have to look closer at skip toDay, and maybe reconsider about Greenie.

Why indeed? I could kick myself - one of the few Days ever when I have a chance to actually stay around till DL and make a difference, and I botch it. Pity for wilwa.
Basically, I had some last-minute second thoughts about Eomer - nothing concrete, more a concern that I might be tunnel-visioning and exaggerating things (last time I had too much confidence that I'd found a wolf, it led to a little disaster - see Nerwen's game), so I went back to skim through his posts once more in a hurry, was none the wiser (it was getting late too) and decided to go with my suspicion anyway. Now the stupid thing is that my computer clock isn't quite in synch with the Downs clock, and I hadn't refreshed for a while, so I miscalculated the time I had left by a few crucial minutes. Blargh.

I was the first to vote Eomer, yeah, but Sally and Pitchie had both expressed suspicion of him. I'm not going to add Agan there, because I don't remember if she expressed suspicion of him before or after I voted for him. It wasn't a throwaway; I was honestly trying to get him lynched.

I did what now?

Oh, my...Agan and her cobber-hunting ferver again. She does this every game, you know, and someone always disagrees with her. :p

As Eomer himself pointed out. And I still don't know what "fairly obvious hint" you guys are talking about! :rolleyes:

Presumably this
and this
At the time, I took Eo's comment about your behaviour as an accusation of wolvery rather than a speculation about your possible giftedness, so it was actually you who dragged the question of gifteds out into the open; but I don't know that you'd have done that if you were one, so I don't see the big hint here.

Oh, that? I didn't even think about how it might look like a Gifted hint. It wasn't meant to be one. :rolleyes: