Sweet broccoli Odin, please don't go there.

Not that part. The part where you talk about Rune was good. But that was, what, one line? Maybe two? The majority of your post was not about Rune, and that was the part that I found unnerving.

Also, I think, her voting behaviour from Day 1, ie. debating whether to vote Gal or Bom and ending up voting the latter.

I don't think it really matters at this point, but the way I read it, he suspected Shasta and defended Gal.


That is actually a good point; and when phrased like that it does look fishy. But like you, I think I'd need to do some rereading in order to decide anything.

In response to Agan's response to my points against her:

Ah. My post in question was a summary of the development of the Galwagon, not a full account of everything everyone said with regards to Gal; I only mentioned it when somebody brought up new points, or somebody new joined in the fray, etc. Perhaps I should have stated it clearer. Also, when I called your reason for voting Gal fishy or suspicious or strange or whatever it was, I was talking about that one particular point I had quoted, not the whole (the other arguments therein being ones others had stated too and that looked a little more valid.)

I still think it could be, as you know you'd say that same thing whether BN or innocent.

Yes, it occurred to me that Gal might be Gifted. It also occurred to me that it might have occurred to you. Look, I was not and certainly am not saying for a fact that you are a wolf. I was saying that your actions concerning the Gal lynch would well fit a wolf. There's a difference.

Hesitation in itself is not fishy. The way you did it was. It might have been genuine for all I know, but it seemed too pronounced, too underlined, to be so. That, and you being one of the orchestrators of the original suspicion of Gal, makes for a fishy combination.

I think it's definitely a point, but I can't see it as too fishy. It didn't seem like Agan was trying to get anyone else to vote for Boro, how I read it is that she's so concentrated on their "dance" (and yes, your rhetoric does make that annoying to read, Boro and Agan) that she didn't have the concentration to go through anyone else. Which I understand, even though I don't see it as highly contributing. However, this message of Greenie's is starting to worry me. Feels like you have something especially against Agan (alliteration, even if not a pronounced but only a written one - the linguist in me jumps with joy ^^). We can't of course be sure about her, but Bom's vote for her would definitely seem to give to her some innocence points. After two days of discussing mainly her I feel like we should somewhat move on, broaden our vision, and I'll be definitely looking at you, dear Greenie, with some concentration.

edit. x/ed with Greenie's second one

I agree that Bom's vote should be a consideration regarding Agan, as I said here.

I really haven't seen where this suspicion of Agan has had a lot of merit thus far.
As Pom says, the focus on Agan should be broadened to include everyone, and especially any who have been quietly slipping along in the shadows....

I am not intending to spend toDay concentrating on Agan, I think that would be stupid. I talked about her because I wanted to comment on Rune's point and in the second post because she left me stuff I felt I needed to address before moving on to other subjects. Which, incidentally, is what I intend to do now. I'd like a look at a few less discussed players, probably starting with Glirdy and checking some others too if I have the time. Also, I think a proper look at the voting yesterDay might give us something.

OK New Plan. . . I am in charge.

I do apologise if I have made a miscalculation and doomed us all.

Anyways the plan is this.

We do not lynch

Me
Boromir
Pommy
Greeny

why? You ask.

Because we are the good guys.

That leaves us with

Aganzir
Glirdan
Inziladun
Loslote

Even if we get everything wrong, we should be able to kill the BN before we are equal numbers.

Also I can prove that I speak the truth... as I know who Mablung is, who in turn can give us another innocent name.

That simplifies things. Rune is telling the truth. Shasta, whom he had forgotten from his list, is Damrod.

Sorry he got deleted when I was doing the calculation (for the sixth time).

BOM SUSPECTED
Agan - voted.
Rune - voted.
Shasta - didn't like him at all, once, on day 1. Questioned his logic on day 2.

BOM DEFENDED
Nate - didn't find her swift skill alarming.

THE REST
Lottie - bantered about.
Greenie
Boro
Glirdan
Inzil

I am assuming Rune is innocent, and Inzil too for that matter (see below). I can't say anything about Shasta because it was only a mild suspicion and even though Bom questioned him like once, it's hardly enough to prove anything.

So Pom systematically suspected people who suspected Bom and/or whom his death pretty much exonerated?

I don't think it's impossible a fellow or two voted for Bom, but I find it somewhat unlikely. He wasn't the obvious lynch choice - as I see it, he was lynched for being quiet/unproductive rather than being an obvious BN. In any case, when we look at the votes he got yesterday... Inzil started it off because he wanted to save me (I am touched), and along came sally and Rune who had been making anti-Bom points for a while already. I think we can safely assume Inzil is also innocent because even if he couldn't have suddenly turned against me after everything he'd said about me, he could have voted for Glirdan and Boro instead of starting a bandwagon against a fellow.

He doesn't act like this all the time. He is up to something at all times, but sometimes he comes across as more genuine than he's now. You could say I found him suspicious from the first but kept testing him till I reached the conclusion I did yesterday. However, I can freely admit I am an extremely subjective player and few things, apart from a revelation of sorts and in all likelihood not even that, could now convince me of his innocence.

Lottie didn't say that. She pointed out that your post looked like you were trying to minimise the damage caused by Bom's sudden and unexpected death. Either you're reading too much into it, or you're trying to twist her words. Did anyone else see the classic BN trick Boro just attempted?

When I made the list, I considered for a while putting in the things I had said a couple of posts earlier, and decided against it and only wrote down the thing that had me wondering about her the most. I thought it might also serve as a little trap for people who'd want to highlight possibly suspicious things I'd said while leaving out bits and pieces, if you know what I mean. The fact that you cited it as the only reason I voted for Gal (later referring to my whole suspicion as "Agan's point against her") is extremely unsettling because what you're saying is basically "Agan voted for Gal without a reason". I should add that while Greenie did a nice job of analysing the day 1 voting, there is precious little we can learn from it because there were no BNs dead, and innocents lynch each other all the time with reasons that prove to be bad in hindsight, especially on day 1s. That kind of vote analysis actually reminds me of a shark swimming into a school of fish.

And if I did it regardless of my role, why on earth are you using it as a point against me?

The first one would be stating I'm a wolf. The second one is implying I'm a wolf. The first leads to you suspecting, maybe voting for me. The second leads to other people getting a vaguely uneasy feeling of me while you can sit back and watch, and, if I die, avoid getting my blood on your hands.

There's nothing I can say to that.

Anyway I'm going to have a look at what people said about Bom (unless someone else managed to do it while I wrote this post).

Greenie, I hate you. So much that I want to hug you. Why why why do we always do this?

And Boro, I hate you too! (Except it was fun, but I guess it has to stop now, right?)

I'm just kind of laughing aloud here.

Thank you kind Rune!

Ah. Easy way to test this , isn't there?

x/d with Agan

I stated them right before I voted G55 - I thought she was being too intent on changing the subject early on, which ended up drawing attention her way.

One of the more interesting points I found today, and simply put - Glirdan is crazy overdefensive here. For point 1, I never said that you said you "believed him innocent". I said you agreed with him (which you mention in your next point.) Here's what I said -
- so the fact that you felt like you had to overstate that you don't think Boro is innocent without reason feels incredibly jumpy to me.

For point 2, you may as well have. See here -
You basically say here that Boro and/or Sally "could have" planned the Nog-kill - which implies you have a reason for thinking such. Also, I feel I need to point out that you say you never said you believed Boro to be innocent, and yet you also say you didn't outwardly suspect him, either. These don't really seem compatible - either you believe Boro is innocent, or you suspect him.

For point 3, I'm aware you mentioned Sally. However, you hadn't agreed with Sally in the beginning of the very same post. Which is what caught my eye about Boro.

The dropping of the subject. I didn't see that G55 had ever responded to it after I mentioned it, so I figured she didn't have a response and was ignoring it, hoping it'd go away.

Really? It seems to me he's been suspecting her on and off since the game started. Boro's vote for Agan really isn't that surprising, is it?

Boro, you said this yesterday -
Did Bom coming up as a wolf really change your opinion of Agan that drastically?

That, along with that, like Nog, Sally really hadn't had a chance to do much, seems likely to me as well. Which means we have a pattern, which means we can speculate on who, as wolves, would consistently kill people who leave no trace (and this is where Agan comes in and says "that does us no good, why bother”. :p)

I don’t necessarily disagree with you there, but why? Bom Numenorean had nothing to gain by hinting at his evilness, from what I can see.

Which makes me want to do it even more, of course. Interestingly enough, Agan said the same thing later in the day.

I don’t like this. Boro has spent the past two days making sure we all know how devious and manipulative he is, and this is the second time today he’s played himself off as being lazy.

This is also completely unproductive, Boro my dear. :)

Also truth. Hi. Also, forgetting about me, Rune? :( Ouch.

Wait for Shasta to confirm it? Yes that is rather easy.

Lying would require guessing Mablung's identity correctly. There can't be three people lying.

And Inzil, if you are a wolf, I'm going to send you explosives in a nice white envelope (unless I can think of something more imaginative). I sincerely hope it's Glirdan and Lottie.

Oh, don't y'all wait up on my account. [/Southern] :Merisu:

Well, as for me, I'd be most comfortable with lynching Glirdan today. Agan is probably second on my list. Inzil and Lottie I need to look at more, but I think Inzil a bit more innocent than Lottie right now.

Following up on Aganzir's gift to Loslote
 

For those of us that will perish in our attempt to eradicate evil, it is important to remember that death is not the end.

I'd prefer Glirdan or Lottie because I don't want to believe Inzil is a wolf. But it doesn't matter much because we can't really lose the game anymore (I checked Rune's calculations and affirm they're correct).

Anyway is it worth anything if I check what people said about Bom, or would you rather a known innocent did it? :p

Going to nap now.

++Glirdan

*gives Mablung a hug and wanders off*

I had a quick look at Glirdan. The following does not include all his posts, nor are the quotes below necessarily full posts. I only included stuff I judged to be potentially of some importance. Here goes -

GLIRDAN, DAY 1

He starts the Day with banter like everybody else. His next post begins with an apology for not posting more. First actual game-related comment is as follows:
Very diplomatic. Could fault him with that, but I'm willing to give some early Day 1 -allowance here.

Glirdy didn't vote, and explained it, I believe, in the admin thread. Moving on -

DAY 2

Starts his Day with speculating on Nog's death.
Shasta raised doubts about this one, and it's true he kind of suspects Boro based on Boro's own theory here. Not sure if that points to innocence or guilt, though! Also, I don't like the "for all we know" part, can't explain it really, but it gives me bad vibes.

The beginning looks a bit insincere, but it might be just that I have a general dislike for whatever precedes a "but" or, in this case, "yet".

Not overly fond of this, either - regardless of that I agree with his point about Lottie's wishy-washiness. The same thing about "buts" and "yets" as in the previous quote. He brings up a rather strong point against Lottie, then counters it with "Now--", then brings up another strongly phrased point against her, then counters that with "Now--". I'd understand that if it was that his overall opinion of Lottie was accordingly undecided. However, the way I read this post, he is clearly more suspicious of her than not. The same post ends with
I feel like I'm getting paranoid because this doesn't sit right with me either, it looks opportunistic, but this time I'm pretty sure I'm just seeing things that aren't there.

Lottie defends herself from Glirdy's points, to which he answers as follows:
It's actually funny, he suspected Lottie for hastily backing off her suspicion when questioned, then proceeds to do more or less the same thing. I'm not sure a BN would do this.

My head starts to hurt every time I try to decide what to think about this whole thing. If anyone has any insight into it, be my guest. Then again, I'm not sure whether it's relevant.

In the same post, Glirdan comments on the more general discussion on whether analyzing the Night-kill is important (saying that he thinks it is). He then analyzes Gal and the Galwagon; not going to quote the whole analysis, but here's the ending:
The next post is here quoted in full:
Thinks Agan is innocent, suspects Inzil and Sally. The suspects are easy choices for a wolf, sensible for an innocent, so I'm undecided about those.

Votes Inzil:
I agree about Inzil's vote placement, as well as his contributions to the Galwagon. The rest, though - I believe Inzil is always suspected for slipping by unnoticed and lacking substance because of the way he posts, concentrating more on commenting than eg. crafting theories.

Overall? Glirdy has been more flip-floppy than I recalled, he's certainly been cautious, and the tone of some things he's said strikes me as false; on the other hand, his flip-flop on Lottie looks a bit too complete for a BN. (I, at least, often take pains to appear consistent in my suspicions when a wolf; it's harder to come up with sudden changes of mind than continuous suspicion.)


EDIT: oh dear, x-ed with a host! All the way since my last, I think.

Okay, I'm here, did a quick skim through of what's been said. And as much as I would love to defend myself against Shasta and others, I simply don't have the time nor the energy to do so. I'll be back soon after I've done a more thorough read through of the Day.

Because we're us, darling. It's a tango of another kind, I'd say. Also, I don't think you need this, but I can't resist quoting you back to yourself:*gives Damrod a hug*

Honestly, though, I x-post with two people hugging me? <3

AGAN
**
Day 2
GLIRDAN
Day 2
INZIL
**
Day 2
LOTTIE
On day 1, said Bom (and several others) needed to post more so she could read him. I'm not quoting it because it's a list of names separated by *coughs*.

**

I'm not going to analyse these to any depth because it doesn't really serve a purpose, but here's everything we non-known innocents said about Bom. So Lottie and Glirdan barely talk about him, while Inzil and I are semi-suspicious, not the least because he's quiet, but acknowledge he's often an easy lynch.

Anyway, the voting is quite amusing. Basically Lottie voted for Glirdan, Glirdan for Inzil, Inzil for Bom, and Bom for me (who voted for Boro). However you look at it, there's bound to be BN-on-BN.

Also, Agan, do you still want me to answer those points you made? I can if you want to, but I think I have more fruitful pursuits too.. :p


EDIT: x-ed with Agan

I was expecting him to be the one to reveal, and that I wouldn't have believed. ;)

No reason to exhaust yourself, darling. :p

Well, that certainly makes the load a bit easier, excellent work Rune. At least I was right on one thing, so far.

Shasta, it wasn't so much Bom's death which had me back off Agan today. I came to a couple realizations, one of which being I was completely lazy yesterday, and also a tad prideful in viewing Agan's post as a challenge...and so in my head I was seeing which on of us would balk first.

As it turns out, I did this morning, because it's entirely too silly to continue the contest. Not because of Bom's death, but because Agan knew all along what I was doing. If she knew I was trying to play the seer, and she is in fact a BN, I have no doubt I'd be on her early kill list, especially with no Anborn.

I mean what would you have me do? I'm an ordo poking along in the complete dark. I can't magically find a wolf, so my only concerns are, find out who's intentions I can trust, don't get any gifteds lynched (hence my regret not being able to vote Day 1, because I would have 100% opposed G55's lynch), and do my best to protect them at night be becoming BN-fodder.

Maybe I've been right about Agan all along, I don't know. I'm considerably less sure, but that doesn't bother me now that not only for certain do I know I can trust Rune, but Shasta and Greenie as well (two people who I would have started suspecting today probably). And I may be haphazardly poking for BNs in the dark, but at least everyone can see now my intentions have all been in the best interest of lynching BNs and protecting the gifteds.

Ah, very true, but that's to be expected with this bunch. I'm more inclined to, if I had to vote right now, either Lottie or Zil. Since I don't I'm going to read Shasta's latest suspicions against Glirdan.

The two remaining wolves being among Agan, Inzil, Lottie and Glirdan basically means we have a 50/50 chance of getting it right toDay! Now, a few random observations, mainly about the relationships between our fantastic four -

- Inzil and Agan have been buddies pretty much since Day 1; each seems to trust the other. Kudos to them if they're both wolves, or both innocents, for that matter. Also, their conduct, especially regarding the Gal-wagon, is a bit too similar (hesitation between Gal and Bom followed by ciritically placed vote for Gal). However, that vote placement and the wavering before it still looks fishy, especially now that we know Bom was a BN. So I'd hazard a guess at one of these two being a baddie.

- Agan's reaction to Rune's reveal looked quite genuine to me; on the other hand, I'm still somewhat suspicious of her dealings with the Gal-wagon.

- Glirdan suspects Lottie and backs off when she defends herself (a bit similarly to Lottie momentarily backing off Gal when told that her point was almost word-to-word like Agan's). If that was wolf-on-wolf, it was pretty lame.

- Agan and Lottie agreed quite a lot on Day 1, didn't they? At least about Gal, at any rate. They also accidentally posted the same point in more or less the same words. Doesn't really say anything about whether or not they are in it together.

- Glirdan voted Inzil on Day 2; there wasn't much of a danger of him getting lynched though, not with the suspicion on both Agan and Bom running rather high. Possible wolf-on-wolf, possibly not. Can't recall anything Inzil has said about Glirdy.

- Inzil's relationship with Lottie? Agan's with Glirdan?


EDIT: x-ed with Agan and Boro

If you're a wolf, I'm going to mail myself to you so I can personally smack you with a snowball. :p

x/d with Boro and Greenie

And if you two are wolves together, I'm going to mail both of you explosive snowballs. Seriously.

Really, though, the excessive trust between these two is weird. But the problem is, it's weird whether it's wolf-on-wolf, wolf-on-innocent, or innocent-on-innocent.

Boro, you're a sweetheart. Your post made me smile, besides it's the most genuine-looking thing you've posted during this entire game. :p

Speaking of which, there's a nagging doubt I've had for a day or two: if we're both innocent, why are we still alive? I would have expected the wolves to think one of us was the seer, or that we were Mablung and Damrod in the very least.
I just don't want to believe it because I don't like to think he fooled me so well.

That almost makes me wish I was a BN. :p

It would be perfect if we were. So much fun. I think I'll have to try this with a fellow next time I'm a wolf. :p

Hehe thank you kindly.


And seriously that was my thought like that last 2 days. Huh, Agan said if I continue to pursue lynching her she would convince everyone she's innocent...does that mean she's a gifted? The seer didn't make sense, because I don't think you'd handle our...confrontation...like you did. So, then it's like, well Mablung or Damrod makes sense, considering how trusty she is with Inzil and vice versa.

I mean it's unlike my declaration of trusting Rune today, because that was based off how his actions over Bom's lynching. But yours and Inzil's seems purely based on...well I don't know what. It suggests either M & D, which is not possible. Or BN & BN but that also seems, as Greenie said...too weird.

OK, tried to look into Inzil's relationship with Lottie, well, turns out there really isn't one. Lottie hardly talks about inzil at all, which looks fishy. Inzil mentions her on several occasions, which are related here; including, also, a few interactions with Glirdy, Agan and Bom.

Fluffy.

I think this vote has been discussed enough to last a couple of lifetimes, but I'd have felt stupid not including it.

From Day 2; the way I read it, it's a slight defence of Lottie.

Unless I'm mistaken, this is the second time he considers voting Bom.

This one is a response to Glirdy; a bit too edgy for wolf-on-wolf maybe, too eager to accuse to be a simple answer to a question.

Now this is actually a really interesting piece. The question is, would an evil Inzil have bussed Bom? It was a risky move, to be sure, but it was also the first vote for Bom. Might have been that Inzil didn't think Bom was in much of a danger - or else, thought he was in such a danger that busing him in order to look better himself looked a viable option. Furthermore, that he did so to save Agan looks downright crazy if he's a wolf and Agan is not - but then, so would busing one fellow to save another... In short, I had almost made up my mind that Inzil is probably a BN but this last one made me reconsider. Thoughts, anyone?

Another thing. Agan, since you're around, care to elaborate? Why are you so sure Inzil is innocent? (Inzil, if you're around, same question about Agan.)


EDIT: x-ed with Boro

That said, I need to go to sleep soon, I'm pretty much exhausted and have a long day tomorrow! I've no idea who to vote, probably not Agan, but if she is innocent then I'd hazard a guess at Inzil being a wolf, which doesn't make sense either, so my brain kind of hurts. Might go for Glirdy or Lottie after all.

Thank you muchly, Rune dear - if I'd seen this half an hour earlier, I could've caught the shopping shuttle and gone to buy more yoghurt after all! Ah, well, yoghurt is an acceptable sacrifice for basically winning the game. :p

++Glirdan

Just to get that over with...I suspect Glirdan - ridiculously more than Agan (who I've thought of as one of the more innocent-sounding players for pretty much the whole game) or Zil (who I haven't really thought of at all, and is probably the other wolf, just by process of elimination) - and obviously know that I am not myself the evil type. ;)

I am sorry I have been lazy. Instead of analysing I had a snack, it tasted good (I also watched a cooking show).

Personally I don't really care who we vote for today.

I also thought that Aganzir's response seemed genuine, which was a bit off putting, as my original plan had been to join forces with Boromir and get her killed.

Inziladun is the one I have been the most suspicious about, but one has to remember that Glirdan and Loslote are the people I have paid the least attention to in this game.

I would've been quite ready to proclaim Inzil as a wolf, but his Bom vote made me reconsider his case.

Lottie makes my head hurt by voting Glirdan; I'd have kind of hoped for the two of them to be BNs together (so that I wouldn't have to find a solution to the Agan-Inzil-problem); they still could be, Lottie might attempt to bus Glirdan in order to survive herself. Still, she seemed a bit too genuinely happy about the news for me to suspect her that much..

So my current guess would probably be that the last two are Glirdan and Inzil. Not willing to bet on that, though!