A Few Questions About Elrond and Elros
 

I'm sorry, but currently I'm too lazy to browse through the whole Silmarillion again to find this out so...

Approximately after how many years did Maglor and Maedhros let the twins go? And where did they go, if they did? Were they handed over to someone else? And while they were together, did they roam around Beleriand or live with Maedhros and Maglor up North-East? Or did they just stay in Sirion?

Another thing: Can half-elves fall ill? Like get coughs and colds etc.? Where is this written?

Thank you so much!

Hmm, good questions.

The Silmarillion of the later 1930s notes that (section 28, end of the Quenta Silmarillion, The Lost Road) among those of the Eldalie that did not forsake the Hither Lands '... were Maglor, as hath been told; and with him for a while was Elrond Halfelven.'

This was changed in the 1977 Silmarillion, as 'with him' refers to Gil-galad there rather than Maglor.

As for dating, making a composite of sorts (!) based on The Tale of Years found in The War of the Jewels, it looks like Tolkien considered that the sons of Elrond were born in year 532 of the First Age and were taken captive in 538, with the War or Wrath taking about 42 years (545-587), and the end of the First Age dating at 590.

If that helps any ;)

I'm assuming you were talking about the sons of Earendil and Elwing and not the sons of Elrond? :p That made me do a double take, for a moment.

I don't have any of my books handy so I'll leave the Elrond and Elros questions for a more scholarly member on here ;)

The question on half elves becoming ill is a good question. My thought would be, it's possible that they could. Take for example the Sons of Elrond. They felt fear along the Paths of the Dead and they could not see the Nazgul flying over head, unlike Legolas. Am I saying that this definitely means they can get sick? No, but there is a possibility that they can considering they can feel fear and their senses aren't as heightened and keen as the elves are. They're not grouped with Legolas on elvish matters and the like, but then again they're not grouped with human/men either.

So, all in all, I suppose it's possbile that they could fall ill.

I don't think it's written anywheres, to be honest. :confused: All you'll really find is speculation and opinions on it. I could be wrong though, but I can't recall reading about them being able to fall ill.

Yes Elros, Elrond were born in First Age 532... not Elrond's sons of course.

Don't know why I wrote the sons of Elrond there.

Ah, that does help a bit, thanks :) But would you happen to know exactly where Elrond and Elros went afterwards? Because I'm a little confused. I know Maglor and Maedhros captured them while they were kids, and I know Maedhros died later, while Maglor lived. But I must admit, I have no idea what happens in between.

For myself, I don't recall any notable specifics for the time between the capture of Elrond and Elros and the end of the War of Wrath. If so, the implication is perhaps simply that the sons remained with Maedros and Maglor until sometime after the War.

According to a statement from The Lord of the Rings, Elrond reveals this much at one point: 'It recalled to me the glory of the Elder Days and the hosts of Beleriand, so many great princes and captains were assembled. And yet not so many, not so fair, as when Thangorodrim was broken, and...'

Hmm :)


Even letter 211 (1958), describing how Elros and Elrond were found, was possibly abandoned, as JRRT ultimately abandoned the detail that Elrond seemingly meant *Elf of the Cave, for instance. Tolkien might have kept the details found in this letter, but as the meaning of the name arguably reflects the story, it's a bit of a question mark to my mind.

The status of Maglor is a bit questionable too, as Tolkien would (at least twice) imagine that Maglor perished. And as I read the 'evidence' that I'm aware of, the latest version on paper (anyway) concerning Maglor's fate has him casting himself into the Sea (see the later Lay of Leithian in The Lays of Beleriand, where the form of the name is Maelor however).

That all said, Tolkien never got around to any updated long prose version of Orthad en-El *Raising of the Star (for this title see Morgoth's Ring, Myths Transformed), and perhaps such a version might have given readers more here.

I would definitely buy and hoard all the Tolkien books I could find, but a) My parents will kill me if they see me reading Tolkien again, during my last school year and b) None of the HoME books are available where I come from :(

Hmm, according to the TYs, Elros and Elrond are born in FA 532 and the Havens of Sirion are destroyed 6 years later, in 538, and: 'sons of Earendil taken captive, but are fostered with care by Maidros.'

In the letter:

Do people agree that the suggestion here is that the 'infants' were left here by the sons of Feanor just after they were carried off, to be found again by someone, and in this scenario would not have been fostered?

Granted, again the name Elrond does not seem to have retained this seeming meaning *Elf of the cave (note Elwing is here 'Elf-foam'), possibly denying this conception, but anyway there doesn't seem to be any fostering going on here.

In many respects this is an unanswerable question. If you have The Silmarillion, you already "know" about as much as anyone else does about what happened in Middle-earth between the sack of the Havens and the end of the War of Wrath.

And this isn't just an uncertain ground because Tolkien never revisited this part of the Silmarillion after he finished The Lord of the Rings--which is case with the Tale of the Nauglamír--it's a part of the story that he never really addressed at all, except in the outline-esque early 1920s "Qenta Noldorinwa." Aside from that, the only references to what happened in Middle-earth during those years are only to be found in scattered notes and outlines (such as the Tale of the Years mentioned by Galin).

Basically, the final chapter of the "Quenta Silmarillion" section of The Silmarillion contains as good a reconstruction of what happened as any--with added bonus that it was put together by his son and editor.

I always thought that "Elrond" means Roof-of-Stars or something similar to that, and "Elwing" to be Star-foam

Yes Elrond did not mean *Elf of the Cave according to later text (later than this letter). Sometimes I use 'seem' even though I'm really more sure than this might indicate. Anyway, I'm interested in the following question here (concerning the letter I quoted above):

Do people agree that the suggestion in the letter is that the 'infants' were left by the sons of Feanor just after they were carried off, to be found again by someone, and in this scenario would not have been fostered?

That's how I read it, but I've already stumbled across an interpretation that the two were left at the time when Maedros and Maglor finally stole the Silmarils... which seems off to me, despite 'last act' above.

:D