A paradise on Middle-Earth
 

We were given a painting assignment: paradise. No need to mix there your personal beliefs, the teacher said, think rather of a place that you could call a paradise.

Lommy and I agreed that our paradises are in Middle-Earth. But where? Valinor is a sure bet but maybe a bit too obvious. There are many wonderful places in the Hither Lands as well; places one could call paradise.

We spent that class discussing and sketching (though more the former). Nevrast where Tuor tarried for a summer? Doriath, with Lúthien dancing in the shadows? Or what about Lothlórien? In the summer or winter? Or the gardens of Lórien in Valinor? It would be a little too ambitious to try to paint Taniquetil, wouldn't it? The Shire? The Old Forest, or even Fangorn?

Eventually we ended up with Melian and Thingol meeting in starlit Nan Elmoth and Eithel Ivrin where Túrin was healed of his madness, but the decisions weren't easy to make. The Middle-Earth itself is a paradise, in a way.

I think my paradise would be the Pools of Ivrin (although I'm not the one of us who's going to paint that). The main reason, I guess, is this association: there's a small lake just next to my summer cottage and that's what I imagine the Pools to look like - the gleam of the sun on the lake is so... Faelivrin. Also, the forests surrounding the place could be straight from Middle-Earth. Even though Ivrin has never been described that accurately, my image of it has thus mixed with the image of a place I love in my subconscious, and that's enough of a reason for me to call it a paradise.

So, if you had to choose a place in Middle-Earth; the most beautiful or perfect place, a place you could spend the rest of your life, what would that be? Some reasons would be nice as well (I haven't started painting yet and am still ready to change the motif if I find a better one ;)). Also, please define your choice, ie. don't say Gondor if you only mean Dol Amroth.

I'm glad you managed to actually post this thread, Agan. :D

That is true. But I must say I chose Eithel Ivrin more because of artistic reasons than because of reasons that have something to do with my view of paradise in Arda. I just had the vision of the sun on the lake, small figures of Túrin and Gwindor at the front and the mountains and the blue sky at the background and as I was rather pleased with my sketch, I decided to do it.

My initial thought of Tolkienesque paradise painting was that there should be a drowning sailor who has managed to get to the Straight Path and is dying with the light of Valinor in his eyes... but I'm not ambitious enough to try to depict that, so I chose the scene at Eithel Ivrin.

Even though, I'm not sure if I would choose either of them as my real Arda paradise. Undying Lands are a bit too obvious and they have always left me a bit cold in all their perfection. Parts of them, though, could be a paradise. The dreamy woods and gardens of Lórien Agan mentioned get very close to one. Even though, I don't think any place could me my paradise if it was not close to the sea, so...

I actually see the Grey Havens as some sort of paradise. It's a peaceful city near the sea and surrounded by a wilderness, but more importantly, it is the place of leaving and coming to Middle-Earth, some kind of meeting point of joy and sorrow, of new and old and reflects the grief and longing of the Elves of Hither Lands very well. I really can't phrase it in any better way, so I hope you understood...

What a tough assignment! When I first started reading, I couldn't help but think of the Shire. However, how can one discount Rivendell or Lothlorien? Lothlorien, the heart of elvendom on Earth, and yet Rivendell is described as having the best of everywhere: the Shire, Minas Tirith, Lorien, etc. Everything, that is, but the sea. So maybe it is the Gray Havens after all, although we are not given quite the mental picture of it as we are other abodes.

Merry

Well, it's not necessarily paradise, but definitely the place where I would want to live...Anórien, specifically on Min-rimmon.
I've grown up next to tall mountains and forests and so I would never give that up.
So it really is nice with a forest left and one right, mountains in the back.
You can get fast to Rohan and also to Minas Tirith.

Rivendell. Because like Bilbo and the Fellowship, the Elves would give me all the food, shelter and creature comforts I want. I can just keep freeloading off them and living comfortably to the end of my days.:D

My first thought was of Lothlórien, but then I realised that there actually is one place in Middle-Earth I love very dearly. Ithilien.

There is something oddly wild and sweet in the land. I especially love it because of its location so close to Mordor. No, don't get me wrong. I wouldn't fancy Sauron as a neighbour or anything. Instead, I think that the presence of the Evil so near makes Ithilien's pride and beauty much more important, much more intriguing and much more, well, fair and sad. Also, I think one of the most beautiful quotes in LotR is one sentence describing it: It's almost prettier in Finnish but I won't quote it here since only a few would understand it.

From my POV, most of the places you named are the ones I could place under the term "paradise" if you asked me (of course as it was said M-E itself as whole is a paradise). Of those you said, I will exclude Taniquetil, as it is maybe too high but nothing else (and though I might like snow-covered mountains, I would surely find a better mountain somewhere on the other side of the sea), the Shire, as it is too much "common" for me, too "wordly", and Old Forest, as I don't see it as good as maybe Fangorn, though even Fangorn maybe does not fit under the term "paradise" in my thoughts. It is a nice place, where I would like to live, but it's a "common" place where I would like to live: the same value for me have Dale, Mirkwood (Amon Lanc), the shores of lake Rhun (!), Chetwood and Isengard (before fortified by Saruman). Also agree on Faelivrin, but what is the most outworldly beautiful place for me is indeed Cirith Ninniach. I was fascinated by it and still I am. And it would include the underground river as well, to balance the beauty and the light of day and rainbow with the calming darkness full of the sound of running water, which can bring one to the most beautiful and calm deep sleep in the eternal night.

Oh my! I know what Laurinque would say!;)

But of course I love the Shire... but Doriath would be great, before Melian left of course! But if I lived in the Shire I would want to see the WR and the old Shire and the summer of 1420 SR! You see all of this horrible bad things happen, and then you see a lovely ending!

Wow this is a toughy! I like the Shire for it's simplicity and beautiful landscapes, but there's no excitement in that region of Middle Earth. It would have to be somewhere where there is lots of open space.

I was thinking about Moria, but that place is too much like a dwarf cloister. Erebor, would have to be the place! Wonderful place to be!

I always thought that Rivendell would be the most comfortable and cosmopolitan, but I might find the mountains claustrophobic. Lorien is lovely and I would love mallorns I am sure. The havens, would surely be lovely but maybe a little depressing with so many leaving or just passing through. I have lived by the sea for nearly all my life and so Dol Amroth has a lot going for it.

I agree, Mithalwen, about the cosmopolitan aspect of Rivendell, and that's one reason it would be my choice as a Middle-earth paradise. With so many different people of various races coming and going, it would never get boring! I'm not sure I would want to live exclusively among Elves.

Above all, Tolkien himself wrote that Rivendell, with Elrond as its Master, was the ideal place for any activity in which one might desire to engage: No boredom there, but no enforced programme either! He then adds an important note:
(Besides, a widowed host, "as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer" might be interesting to spend some time with... :Merisu: )

Do you now? Well I don't, not completely, but off the top of my head I would say Lothlorien. I loved it there....flowers...trees...Elves...it's just wonderful!

But I also loved Ithilien, I totally agree with A Little Green, it's border on Mordor is not a detriment to it.

I'd probably choose Nan-tathren, the Land of Willows. Rivendell sounds like a great place to live, but I don't know that I'd label it "paradise."

Given my fascination with the Ainur, I would probably choose some part of Valinor. Valmar, most likely (the thought of all the bells appeals to me as a musician), or perhaps Tirion.

I'd say that all of Middle Earth is paradise, with the possible exception of Mordor. Or maybe it is for those we read about in LotR. I like that even when the Fellowship is traveling with tight belts, and when Frodo and Sam are down to their last drop of water, it still doesn't seem too bad as I watch from a well-fed and hydrated distance. No one gets sick, is bugged by bugs (with the exception of the midges) and no one ever goes to the ... ah... facilities. The FotR encounters elves and so sees, smells and tastes life in HD format. They also encounter orcs and heroically dispatch them in droves without so much a peep from a loyer or police officer.

Pre-3018, what exactly did Frodo do all day? Take walks, enjoy inns, hang out with his friends, read books. What's not to like about that?

The world is filled with magic, princesses and princes, elves and orcs, lembas, books, wizards and Balrogs. What more of a paradise could you want?

This raises an interesting point. Perhaps "paradise" is less dependent upon geography, environment, company. Perhaps any place can be a paradise if one is, like Frodo and Bilbo, wealthy enough not to have to work to earn one's bread on the table, but instead is free to dally as one wishes or chooses.

Agreed, though for some "work" and being "free to dally as one wishes or chooses" just might be the same paradisal place. :D

Note that, for those concerned that I'm not productive at work, my job is to hunt down missing socks and return them to their rightful owners, and so the job does have some down time while I'm analyzing and comparing sock DNA, and so I have time to post now and again while remaining fully productive.

Or maybe the Downs, being cathartic, is part of my health plan.

Well now are you saying that any paradise should include a health plan? Does Rivendell have a gymnasium or workout room? Do elves play basketball or volleyball? Would orcs be inclined to rugger or American football? Would dwarves prefer hockey as it requires the smithing of strong blades and mighty sticks?

Is a paradise in fairie the same thing as a paradise in the primary world? Or, in fact, does fairie not admit of paradise, because it is the Perilous Realm? So that, when we speak of paradise in Middle-earth, are we really just talking about our own inclinations rather than what is in Middle-earth?

Not sure that it has to go that far. One walks wherever one goes, and that seems to impart some healthy living naturally. Elves, constantly singing and always being required to say both yea and nay, expend extra calories that way even when they aren't primping their hair. Dwarves, as posited elsewhere, have different metabolisms from us humans, and so few of them need any exercise (except fat Bombur who provides a workout for others). Orcs are underfed as a rule, and their constant nervousness of having their heads removed gives them a natural cardio workout daily - and if that fails, well, where there's a whip, there's a way. And orcs don't have many health care choices - get well or get into the pot...

You've asked the right question...and no, they are different.

Aren't I always talking about my own inclinations? ;) Are we asking what our paradise is or what our paradise is if we existed within Middle Earth's confines? For some, the Shire might be Heaven - Sam, in the despair of Mordor, surely at that moment would think so. When he's first tramping along with Frodo, heaven might have been the Golden Perch. Lothlorien was no heaven on earth for poor Boromir, and Ar-Pharazôn found Aman not to his liking.

Where is fancy bread?

According to my own inclinations, France. :)

I assume they deliver?

I can't say as all French do, but certainly I suspect we would agree that Tolkien does, paradisically speaking.

Ordinarily it ought to be by the sea. However, The Grey Havens are a bit depressing and there are too many Elves around; and although it might sound exciting thinking about Wizards landing there you get the impression that any bored long-term residents would be moaning "You wait thousands of years here for a Wizard to come along and then five of them arrive all at once! Tch." Another option, Dol Amroth, is too far south and I think they'd get jellyfish and I really don't like the thought of that; plus it might get over-run by day-trippers from Minas Tirith on bank holidays. Alqualonde sounds just beautiful, but the name also sounds too much like a drug to deal with excessive water retention. So unless I could find a forgotten fishing village somewhere on the Western shores of Middle-earth then it has to be The Shire.

It's got nothing extreme about it, no overly large rivers that might flood, no volcanoes, not too many wars. It has some nice woodland and fields and whatnot. Plus it also has all the major things you might need in life like ale, cakes, pipe-weed, taters, coffee, books, maps etc. It has decent pubs. Not too troubled by Elves and Orcs and things though you get the odd Wizard or Dwarf. And what's more, you get presents when it's not even your birthday! :cool:

Possibly Gondolin (While it remained).

*Mr. Picky arrives* Not necessarily! According to one quite popular version, they did not arrive all at once, but one by one (or two, at maximum).

There were many like that in Enedwaith/Minhiriath...

And what about Brithombar/Eglarest? Or Númenor? Both, of course, only at certain time - but that goes even for the others you named.

Also, I take it that you are limiting your choices to cities or settlements at least. Because otherwise, there are many, many, many beautiful places that could be labelled "paradise", only there is no settlement in there. Not that the words "paradise" and "settlement" seem in any way logically connected in my mind :confused:

I already noted above that the surroundings of Vinyamar is the real paradise, and it was even inhabited at one time, so perhaps you could find that one suitable?

You should never let facts get in the way of a good joke.

Or even a bad one! :D


There would have to be some kind of human habitation or else I'd end up like Tom Hanks in that film where he starts going insane and having conversations with a football. Preferably this habitation would not feature Elves as their singing would get on my wick ;)

A paradise on ME? – But the place you would choose entirely depends on what you are.

For an Elf the paradise is certainly Lorien, a place made as much alike to Valinor as all the magic of Nenya had permitted. But is that a good place for humans? – hardly. The Rohirrim, Galadriel’s neighbors, deemed the Golden wood perilous and I don’t think it was unfounded. What happens to a mortal in this beautiful timeless realm? You stay there seemingly but for a few days – but in reality decades have passed unnoticed. You will waste your life in the Golden wood, living like in a dream where nothing really happens.

Rivendell is a tad better for us, mortals. Perhaps it is because Imladris was conceived by Peredhel, half-Elven. It is a place of lore and rest. Still it seems Elrond did meddle with Time somewhat, as Bilbo, for instance, had hard time keeping track of passing days. Then for all entertainment there is this singing and story-telling in the Hall of Fire that makes you so sleepy…. Day after day it might drive you crazy.

The Shire is a good place for an average 21 century human, peaceful and cheerful. But be prepared to eat eight meals a day, which might well ruin your waist-line. Also, won’t you feel a bit like Gulliver among the Lilliputians? I am not sure it is THAT pleasant to be almost twice taller than everybody else.

Rohan? Hmm, you may be fond of horses, but I guess you will miss the basic commodities of modern life.
Gondor is a good place, but be prepared to feel inferior to high-and-mighty Numenoreans. Also a view on Orodruin and the dark Shadow over the mountains might be unsettling. Worse still, if Mordor does attack while you are there.
I won’t even discuss Fangorn. You will run out of there in a few days, screaming.

If you are an orc, I would recommend Misty Mountains near Gundabad. In Moria there is a nasty big Barlog, while in Mordor or Isengard there will always be a Master eager to teach you proper orc manners with a whip.

If you are a wraith, head for Minas Morgul – you won’t find a better place in Middle Earth. Not only is it gorgeous, with its lofty tower, stunning statues, misty river and fields of white flowers, but it is as much attuned to us, wraiths, as Lorien is to Elves. Imlad Morgul is our paradise. I wouldn’t recommend the lonely Barrows of Cardolan, unless someone sends and binds you there. In this case, beware of an evil, unpredictable neighbor – Tom.

Hope that helps.:D

:eek:Man Gordis, you make some of the most horibal places in Arda sound wonderful. Have you ever concidered of becoming a salesman?;)

He-he... If I get fired from my present work, I might find a job in a tourist agency.;)

Concerning the assignment that made Agan start this thread...
 

Well, now I got my painting back and I think I have no reason not to post it here. I'm not entirely content with it and I think the camera doesn't flatter the colours, but here it comes...

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i5...n/IMG_6275.jpg

Man, Lommy! That is a beautiful picture! I wish that I was that good of an artist...

But, I might have changed my mind a bit....

I would dearly love to live in the Shire, it is a wonderful place with good food and friendly people... err, hobbits. Plus it has a beautiful landscape... but I really love my snowy winters. But there doesn't seem to be a place in ME that has a ton of snow in the winter unless you go to the top of Caradhras, which I don't really want to live there.
I think that I would travel a lot. I would live in the Shire because I dearly love it and it really is like a paradise. But I also would like to travel to Ithilien, Rohan, Gondor, Bree-land, Rivendell, Lothlorien, The Old Forest, Fangorn, and the Barrow-Downs... Plus I think that I will have to visit Tom Bombadil sometime too. My reason is that all of these places have there own appeal. But places such as Lorien and Rivendell are timeless wonders that are beautiful in there own way and I wouldn't mind a visit, but I couldn't stand living there my whole life. Nothing ever happens there and nothing changes. I would hate it, but I couldn't live in Gondor or Rohan either, my reason- too many wars, I can't stand war, I don't think that I could be strong enough to live in a place so close to Mordor with so much war.

My point is, my future husband better be prepared to travel a lot.;)

"Visions of paradise, cloudless skies I see
Rainbows on the hill, blue onyx on the sea..."
-- The Moody Blues, from In Search of the Lost Chord

For me, paradise would encompass the final vision of Frodo as he took the last ship into the West: "And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed on into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise."

One of my most cherished bits of Tolkien prose. Ummm...excuse me, it seems I have something in my eye. *sniffs*

I know I'm pathetically slow but I finally managed to take a picture of my painting and thought I could post it as well.

I ran out of time so the background is a bit simple, and the only camera I have for my use right now is very bad, but anyway. Here it is.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62...ngolmelian.jpg

I've seen a lot of people mention places in which Tolkien took great pains to describe their beauty and/or the nobility of their inhabitants. Most of them, however, are within such close proximity to danger that one may wish to think twice before living there.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the areas of the Blue Mountains. Forlindon and Harlindon saw no strife after the First Age. Moreover, they were under the rule of both Gil-Galad and Cirdan, and they had a significant colony of dwarves there.

I've always imagined that area having a few human homesteaders somewhere. I can't imagine a better life than having a homestead near the Ered Luin, within proximity of both the dwarves (to share good beer and beef) and the elves (for the times I'm feeling more highbrow).

Come on - paradise with Dwarves???

:D

However, I think the reason why nobody mentioned the places around Blue Mountains is that it is not significant on first sight in anything. The Grey Havens are more like a sad place, or a "transit station", and the other places around are just "dull".

Hey you racist, had I not fallen so in love with so many places already, my paradise would be full of dwarves! :Merisu:

The RPG character I've been playing the longest is a dwarf from the Blue Mountains (from a village called Beard Valley, to be precise ;)), and although it is not a place very much described by Tolkien, I imagine it to be nice, calm, quiet, cool, comfortable... A bit like Finland actually.

*goes away, imagining a big manor full of oiled half-naked dwarf servants bringing me drinks and rubbing my feet*

:eek: Oh my!

Though a dwarf paradise would definitely be a nice place, I think. Maybe that's just because I love mountains and dwarves are usually inhabiting said mountains. I think Erebor pre-Smaug would be a nice place to retire. The Dwarrowdelf in it's high time also wouldn't be a bad place to make residence.

It is a tough choice to pick a personal paradise in Middle-Earth. Tolkien's descriptions, the various works of art, etc. all make most areas of Middle-Earth seem like perfect places to call home.

Though for me it has always been Rivendell that I label paradise. I could spend an eternity composing bad poetry in the company of elves.

Time brings new thoughts.

There was this place in the woods where I grew up that was grassy. Not vine-covered tree infested, not weedy, not overrun by jaggers or empty steel cans, but just a place covered in grass that was open to the sky. Sure, we had grass all around our house, but this grass, down over the hills in a hard-to-reach part of the woods, never needed mowing. It was always cooler there, as somehow the breeze would find its way through the mess that surrounded it.

I could just lie there some days and stare cloudward.

Alatar, your description made me immediately think of Voronwë's tale:

This sounds quite paradisiac to me too!

Here is a picture of Voronwë in Nan-tathren, by Anke Eissmann