Suprising quotes in the LOTR
 

Are there any scenes/qoutes from the LOTR from any character that suprise any of you? There was one particular one whereby an elf (who's name I have forgotten - Haldir I think) speaks of little trust the elves of Loth Lorien have of anyone, save in Rivendell perhaps. I find this absolutely astonishing - how on earth can the elves of Loth Lorien give even the slightest shred of doubt towards their brothers in arms, where one of the great lord of the Elves dwells? He should have said that he & the Elves fully supported Rivendell rather than leaving a cloud of doubt over the trustworthyness of Elrond's people.

But isn't that what happens when peoples are separated? I find it quite sad.

It seems to me that the mental capacity of elves is very brittle.

Oh, yes, there were quotes that surprised me! This one that I'm about to put out made me stop reading for a moment and re-read it several times just to make sure it was there.

I certainly wasn't expecting the swear word, and therefore it was surprising.

At least it wasn't Sam or anybody else. :o

--Folwren

But isn't the point that, once evil had re-entered the world, even the Elves were split into different, even unfriendly, groups? It's not so much about the weakness of Elves; more about the terrible effects of evil.

Aren't you straying from the point of this thread?

Not at all. It would be a shame to just list those things one finds surprising. Far better to discuss and share ideas, wouldn't you say?

Which elves do you know of that strayed to evil?

There are one or two, though they are rare. There was one quite evil Elf in the Silmarillon but his name doesn't spring to my mind. And can you imagine Galadriel if she had taken the ring?

But I don't think EotR was trying to say that many Elves were evil, but rather that the effects of evil had as much effect on the Elves as, say, the Dwarves, in that different Elves estranged from each other (it has been suggested, for example, that Mirkwood and Lorien weren't over-friendly, and going back to the First Age there are many different splits among Elves).

I read this in this (http://www.istad.org/tolkien/legolas.html) article about Legolas. It's quite an interesting theory, if theory it is. It might help answer Mansun's question to a degree as well :)

What SC said. :)

It's not that the Elves strayed to evil but that evil strayed to them.

What I find strange about this is not the swearing but the fact that the orcs speak as if they really remember the 'old times'. Are orcs immortal? Someone give me a hyperlink.

Well, that's a whole other discussion in itself, but it seems likely. You'll remember that the goblins in The Hobbit recognized Glamdring and Orcrist, two elvish swords that likely had not been seen for thousands of years (and even if they had, they hadn't been wielded by elves since Gondolin's fall).

I personally doubt that, unless we are talking about the maiar orcs mentioned in the Myths Transformed. And if the orcs in question have mannish blood, they aren't immortal:
It is also presumed in the Hobbit that the trolls aquired the swords through looting:
If the orcs in question were some previous owners of the swords, (and, even more, if the looting from them occured quite recently), then the memory problem doesn't seem so tricky anymore.

The term Kinslaying comes to mind!!!!!!!!!

Exactly! If the Teleri wouldn't have strayed to evil, they would have given the Noldor their ships, and so wouldn't have been slain. :smokin:

Is it possible that Elves ever served Sauron in Mordor? What about Dwarves?

No. N-O. And even if they did, it was because they were captured prisoners, because there were no elves that served him, at least not knowingly into evil.

N-O??? Are you preaching Chemistry here?

Can someone ellaborate more on what Gandalf said to Frodo about many a king & others that have walked Middle-Earth & are yet under the sway of the Dark Lord?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Silmarillion hint towards Orcs being the twisted forms of elves?
Also, in TTT Saruman says

Welcome to the Downs, Arquenniel!

There are a few versions. There was a thread about it:

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=12857


I don't fins it surprising that Tolkien considers swearwords to be Orc-talk. ;)

I certainly wasn't expecting the word bastards in TTT. Tolkien uses mostly very prim and proper language, and then suddenly comes up with this word? I know he used it in a literal and not an offensive sense (though it was, really), but still.

Well, most words that are considered rude today were just the usual words a long time ago.

Out of curiosity, in which chapter of TTT is that word found? I'm drawing a blank.

Shelob's Lair: "Far and wide her lesser broods, bastards of the miserable mates, her own offspring, that she slew, spread from glen to glen, from the Ephel Dúath to the eastern hills, to Dol Guldur and the fastness of Mirkwood."

It wasn't that long a time ago :(

Thanks. I didn't have the book with me.

Along the lines of what Eönwë said, that particular word had a neutral, everyday use at least until the 1970s, I think. Now though, you mainly hear it used as an insult.

Ah. Right. Thanks :p And you're welcome :)